Boeing 747 days are numbered
Discussion
Just read with sadness at the start of 2018 there will be no US carriers using the 747 as a passenger aircraft.
Add to that Air France and Cathay have retired theirs and the fact whilst BA have 36 flying currently they have plans to retire half by 2021 with the balance gone by 2024...........what a shame
I remember as a very young lad watching these huge and graceful aircraft coming and going from Heathrow sitting next to the runway (you could in those days!) and also at various other airports around the globe. I’ve flown in quite a few and been lucky enough as a non-pilot to fly in a jump seat for some hours and on one occasion play with the controls at 36,000ft with the autopilot off keeping it straight and level, an experience I’ll never forget.
I suspect like quite a few of us (and for me nearly 50 years on) I still look up and say......wow when I see one taking off or landing. My youngest son who’s 8 loves them but he’ll probably never fly in one.
I fully understand the economics
The A330 and Dreamliner et al are doing the same job with two engines, can now fly some distance away from shore so are able to go direct from say Heathrow to the Caribbean in 8 hours rather than hug the US coast as two engined airliners has to do some years ago. At the end of the day it’s all about shareholders, pounds, shillings and pence.
I wonder how long the A380 has to go on the production line? The NEO doesn’t seem to be on the cards, not even for Emirates which is a shame. I fly in the A380 reasonably frequently and they are wonderful. They’re large, quiet, well equipped and even in the cheap seats comfortable and a really nice place to be for a long flight.
However at the end of the day regardless of my fondness of the A380 the 747 is and will always be ‘The Queen of the Skies’ and rightly so. Without doubt it transformed air travel for the masses and has carried huge numbers of human beings throughout its life. It holds the record for carrying the most passengers on one flight (1088 on an El Al flight albeit it took off with 1086 people on board but two babies were born so it landed with 1088!)
I guess some airlines will fly the 747-8 for some time to come but without doubt shortly we won’t see as many as we do currently
Some fun-facts about the 747-400
A 747-400 has six million parts, half of which are fasteners, 171 miles (274 km) of wiring and 5 miles (8 km) of tubing.
A 747-400 consists of 147,000 pounds (66,150 kg) of high-strength aluminum.
The 747-400 tail height is 63 feet 8 inches (19.4 m), equivalent to a six-story building.
The 747-400 wing weighs 95,000 pounds (43,090 kg), more than 30 times the weight of the first Boeing airplane, the 1916 B&W.
The 747-400 wing measures 5,600 square feet (524.9 m2), an area large enough to hold 45 medium-sized cars.
Four World War I vintage JN4-D "Jenny" airplanes could be lined up on each of the Boeing 747 wings.
How much weight does an additional 6-foot (1.8 m) wingtip extension and winglet add to the 747-400 wing? None! A weight savings of approximately 5,000 pounds (2,270 kg) was achieved in the wing by using new aluminum alloys, which offset the weight increase of the wing tip extension and winglet.
Seventy-five thousand engineering drawings were used to produce the first 747.
The first 747 completed more than 15,000 hours of wind-tunnel testing.
The original 747 flight test program, which led to the airplane's certification for commercial service in December 1969, used five airplanes, lasted 10 months and required more than 1,500 hours of flying.
The 747 fleet has logged more than 35 billion statute miles (56 billion km) - enough to make 74,000 trips to the moon and back.
The 747 fleet has flown 3.6 billion people - the equivalent of more than half of the world's population.
The 747-400 range is approximately 7,330 statute miles (13,570 km), an increase of nearly 2,600 nautical miles (4,810 km) more than the first 747.
A 747-400 typically takes off at 180 mph (290 km/h), cruises at 565 mph (910 km/h) and lands at 160 mph (260 km/h).
For a typical international flight, one 747 operator uses about 5.5 tons (5,000 kg) of food supplies and more than 50,000 in-flight service items.
Engine thrust has grown from 43,500 pounds (19,730 kg) per engine on the early 747s to as much as 63,300 pounds (28,710 kg) on the current model.
The diameter of the 747 engine cowling is 8 feet 6 inches (2.6 m).
Engine noise from today's 747-400 is half of what it was on the original 747s delivered in 1970.
Fuel
The 747-400 can carry more than 57,000 gallons of fuel (215,745 L), making it possible to fly extremely long routes, such as San Francisco-to-Sydney, Australia.
A 747-400 that flies 3,500 statute miles (5,630 km) and carries 126,000 pounds (56,700 kg) of fuel will consume an average of five gallons (19 L) per mile.
The 747-400 carries 3,300 gallons (12,490 L) of fuel in the horizontal (tail) stabilizer, allowing it to fly an additional 400 miles.
At 31,285 cubic feet (876 m3), the 747-400 has the largest passenger interior volume of any commercial airliner, which is equivalent to more than three houses each measuring 1,500 square feet (135 m2).
The 747-400 has a redesigned "flexible" cabin interior that not only improves passenger conveniences and appeal, but allows airlines to rearrange seats and class configuration overnight (in eight hours). They also permit 48-hour conversion times for changes in galley and lavatory locations.
Airline cargo handlers use the 747-400's lower-lobe cargo handling system to load or unload more than 65,000 pounds (30,000 kg) of cargo - the equivalent of 625 pieces of luggage combined with 20 tons of revenue freight - in less than 15 minutes.
The Wright Brothers' first flight at Kitty Hawk, N.C., could have been performed within the 150-foot (45 m) economy section of a 747-400.
There are 365 lights, gauges and switches in the new-technology 747-400 flight deck, reduced from 971 on earlier 747 models.
Add to that Air France and Cathay have retired theirs and the fact whilst BA have 36 flying currently they have plans to retire half by 2021 with the balance gone by 2024...........what a shame
I remember as a very young lad watching these huge and graceful aircraft coming and going from Heathrow sitting next to the runway (you could in those days!) and also at various other airports around the globe. I’ve flown in quite a few and been lucky enough as a non-pilot to fly in a jump seat for some hours and on one occasion play with the controls at 36,000ft with the autopilot off keeping it straight and level, an experience I’ll never forget.
I suspect like quite a few of us (and for me nearly 50 years on) I still look up and say......wow when I see one taking off or landing. My youngest son who’s 8 loves them but he’ll probably never fly in one.
I fully understand the economics
The A330 and Dreamliner et al are doing the same job with two engines, can now fly some distance away from shore so are able to go direct from say Heathrow to the Caribbean in 8 hours rather than hug the US coast as two engined airliners has to do some years ago. At the end of the day it’s all about shareholders, pounds, shillings and pence.I wonder how long the A380 has to go on the production line? The NEO doesn’t seem to be on the cards, not even for Emirates which is a shame. I fly in the A380 reasonably frequently and they are wonderful. They’re large, quiet, well equipped and even in the cheap seats comfortable and a really nice place to be for a long flight.
However at the end of the day regardless of my fondness of the A380 the 747 is and will always be ‘The Queen of the Skies’ and rightly so. Without doubt it transformed air travel for the masses and has carried huge numbers of human beings throughout its life. It holds the record for carrying the most passengers on one flight (1088 on an El Al flight albeit it took off with 1086 people on board but two babies were born so it landed with 1088!)
I guess some airlines will fly the 747-8 for some time to come but without doubt shortly we won’t see as many as we do currently
Some fun-facts about the 747-400
A 747-400 has six million parts, half of which are fasteners, 171 miles (274 km) of wiring and 5 miles (8 km) of tubing.
A 747-400 consists of 147,000 pounds (66,150 kg) of high-strength aluminum.
The 747-400 tail height is 63 feet 8 inches (19.4 m), equivalent to a six-story building.
The 747-400 wing weighs 95,000 pounds (43,090 kg), more than 30 times the weight of the first Boeing airplane, the 1916 B&W.
The 747-400 wing measures 5,600 square feet (524.9 m2), an area large enough to hold 45 medium-sized cars.
Four World War I vintage JN4-D "Jenny" airplanes could be lined up on each of the Boeing 747 wings.
How much weight does an additional 6-foot (1.8 m) wingtip extension and winglet add to the 747-400 wing? None! A weight savings of approximately 5,000 pounds (2,270 kg) was achieved in the wing by using new aluminum alloys, which offset the weight increase of the wing tip extension and winglet.
Seventy-five thousand engineering drawings were used to produce the first 747.
The first 747 completed more than 15,000 hours of wind-tunnel testing.
The original 747 flight test program, which led to the airplane's certification for commercial service in December 1969, used five airplanes, lasted 10 months and required more than 1,500 hours of flying.
The 747 fleet has logged more than 35 billion statute miles (56 billion km) - enough to make 74,000 trips to the moon and back.
The 747 fleet has flown 3.6 billion people - the equivalent of more than half of the world's population.
The 747-400 range is approximately 7,330 statute miles (13,570 km), an increase of nearly 2,600 nautical miles (4,810 km) more than the first 747.
A 747-400 typically takes off at 180 mph (290 km/h), cruises at 565 mph (910 km/h) and lands at 160 mph (260 km/h).
For a typical international flight, one 747 operator uses about 5.5 tons (5,000 kg) of food supplies and more than 50,000 in-flight service items.
Engine thrust has grown from 43,500 pounds (19,730 kg) per engine on the early 747s to as much as 63,300 pounds (28,710 kg) on the current model.
The diameter of the 747 engine cowling is 8 feet 6 inches (2.6 m).
Engine noise from today's 747-400 is half of what it was on the original 747s delivered in 1970.
Fuel
The 747-400 can carry more than 57,000 gallons of fuel (215,745 L), making it possible to fly extremely long routes, such as San Francisco-to-Sydney, Australia.
A 747-400 that flies 3,500 statute miles (5,630 km) and carries 126,000 pounds (56,700 kg) of fuel will consume an average of five gallons (19 L) per mile.
The 747-400 carries 3,300 gallons (12,490 L) of fuel in the horizontal (tail) stabilizer, allowing it to fly an additional 400 miles.
At 31,285 cubic feet (876 m3), the 747-400 has the largest passenger interior volume of any commercial airliner, which is equivalent to more than three houses each measuring 1,500 square feet (135 m2).
The 747-400 has a redesigned "flexible" cabin interior that not only improves passenger conveniences and appeal, but allows airlines to rearrange seats and class configuration overnight (in eight hours). They also permit 48-hour conversion times for changes in galley and lavatory locations.
Airline cargo handlers use the 747-400's lower-lobe cargo handling system to load or unload more than 65,000 pounds (30,000 kg) of cargo - the equivalent of 625 pieces of luggage combined with 20 tons of revenue freight - in less than 15 minutes.
The Wright Brothers' first flight at Kitty Hawk, N.C., could have been performed within the 150-foot (45 m) economy section of a 747-400.
There are 365 lights, gauges and switches in the new-technology 747-400 flight deck, reduced from 971 on earlier 747 models.
All good things come to an end, some more prematurely than others.
Airbus reinvented the wheel with the A380, but the history books will say what a commercial flop it was. Boeing bet the farm on the 747 and won.
Air transport has changed, it’s all about point-to-point services on twin-engined aircraft. The 747 will still fly for years to come, but passengering on one will soon become a rarity over the next ten years. . . Is it a shame? Perhaps. But she’s bowing out gracefully, with many airlines already paying tribute to an icon of commercial aviation, that as mentioned before, will always hold the title of Queen of the Skies.
Airbus reinvented the wheel with the A380, but the history books will say what a commercial flop it was. Boeing bet the farm on the 747 and won.
Air transport has changed, it’s all about point-to-point services on twin-engined aircraft. The 747 will still fly for years to come, but passengering on one will soon become a rarity over the next ten years. . . Is it a shame? Perhaps. But she’s bowing out gracefully, with many airlines already paying tribute to an icon of commercial aviation, that as mentioned before, will always hold the title of Queen of the Skies.
The 747 was almost a commercial flop for Boeing as well. After the initial flurry of launch orders in the period 1966 to 1968, orders effectively dried up
And, just when the orders began to pick up (in 1971) within two years there was the fuel crisis. However, Boeing had the financial muscle to be able to tough it out and eventually, by the end of the 70s, the 747 began to pick up orders which remained healthy for the next 30 years.
And, just when the orders began to pick up (in 1971) within two years there was the fuel crisis. However, Boeing had the financial muscle to be able to tough it out and eventually, by the end of the 70s, the 747 began to pick up orders which remained healthy for the next 30 years.
Blaster72 said:
Above from the IAG market presentation. Fuel is the biggest reason to get rid and I suspect another rapid rise in fuel prices would kill of the 747 much more quickly than that presentation suggests.
There is your answer. Low fuel costs over the last few years have given it a lease of life airlines didnt expect. IAG are only running them while they make economic sense and the fact that they have paid for themselves mean that as soon as fuel goes back up and the case for buying something efficient is there the 747 will disappear. silverfoxcc said:
Effective December only 747 into LHR will be Korean and BA
Yep. Was talking to a few United cabin crew about 6-7 weeks ago on staff bus into work and they were talking about a few of them had been trying to switch rosta to get on the 747 that United still fly into LHR as its days were numbered.
Its even been a while since I saw at Korean 747 at LHR?
You don't even see many new generation 737's at LHR these days either, KLM, SAS and Royal Air Maroc? are the only reg operators that spring to mind at the moment.
Prior to the introduction of the 747, most long range airliners had a proper navigator on board. I remember being shown around an Aer Lingus Boeing 707 when I was ten and the navigator's station being pointed out to me.
The 747 normally did not carry a navigator. Main overseas navigation was carried out using the Inertial Guidance Navigation System (INS). However, it may have had a provision to allow sun and star sightings to be taken.
Interestingly, the Apollo spacecraft also had an INS system on board AND a sextant station to allow sightings to be taken manually.
The 747 normally did not carry a navigator. Main overseas navigation was carried out using the Inertial Guidance Navigation System (INS). However, it may have had a provision to allow sun and star sightings to be taken.
Interestingly, the Apollo spacecraft also had an INS system on board AND a sextant station to allow sightings to be taken manually.
My favourite flight ever was on a BA 747. Coming home from Saudi Arabia after the '91 Gulf War.
Been on quite a few other military charters on 747s too. Air Canada (unsurprisingly over to Canada), other BA flights, and a Lufthansa one too. Usually back and forth to Canada on exercises or Iraq (well, Al Udeid anyway - it was always Hercs out of Basra) on ops.
Then came the cost cutting, and quite a few Monarch flights to various places...
I also miss the VC10s and Tristars. Not the most luxurious of Air Trooping aeroplanes, but for an aviation fan it was great to be able to experience flying on some old crate that the general public no longer could. In flight entertainment and catering were definitely streets ahead on the civilian charter flights though...
Been on quite a few other military charters on 747s too. Air Canada (unsurprisingly over to Canada), other BA flights, and a Lufthansa one too. Usually back and forth to Canada on exercises or Iraq (well, Al Udeid anyway - it was always Hercs out of Basra) on ops.
Then came the cost cutting, and quite a few Monarch flights to various places...
I also miss the VC10s and Tristars. Not the most luxurious of Air Trooping aeroplanes, but for an aviation fan it was great to be able to experience flying on some old crate that the general public no longer could. In flight entertainment and catering were definitely streets ahead on the civilian charter flights though...
Hub said:
Don't Virgin still have a few operating from Gatwick? though they must be getting on a bit!
.
Flew to Vegas and back on Virgin lasty week on the 747 .
It was getting on a bit, and flies with a noticeably lower cabin pressure, compared with the A380 i flew 6 weeks ago.
Loved the top deck though (although its premium eceonmy and economy rather than upper). Upper is now at the front on the lower deck- not as nice as business with emirates, but slgihtly better than BA business. Didn't think it was anywhere near first on either of those two carriers.
Good beds though!
Had many flights in the 747, best was business class with BA in full flat bed to Sydney and last year to NY with Virgin via Heathrow.
Last month I did proper Flight Simulator training on the 747 in Cardiff Airport. Was great fun testing out the power of those engines, trying multiple engine failures in take off, the thing was massively over powered really.
Last month I did proper Flight Simulator training on the 747 in Cardiff Airport. Was great fun testing out the power of those engines, trying multiple engine failures in take off, the thing was massively over powered really.
silverfoxcc said:
Effective December only 747 into LHR will be Korean and BA
Not quite true based on the info I have availableBA will operate them still
El-Al are still flying them to Tel Aviv daily.
But Korean are now scheduled to be 777-300s every day into LHR for the winter for passengers, no 747s.
Freight wise, Emirates, Cathay Pacific, Singapore Airlines and Russian AirBridge Cargo all have 747 flights in the schedule for a little while longer
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