First Chinese-built passenger jetliner - Comac C919.

First Chinese-built passenger jetliner - Comac C919.

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Discussion

BlackLabel

Original Poster:

13,251 posts

130 months

Saturday 6th May 2017
quotequote all
Looks interesting - wonder how successful it will be? The Chinese have been looking to enter this market for a long long time.


China’s New Jetliner, the Comac C919, Takes Flight for First Time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comac_C919


Eric Mc

122,854 posts

272 months

Saturday 6th May 2017
quotequote all
I would think the market place is a bit crowded for an aircraft in that category.

Deptford Draylons

10,480 posts

250 months

Saturday 6th May 2017
quotequote all
Does it meet what I guess are euro or western safety standards, can it be bought and operated by the like of BA and Virgin ?

Register1

2,279 posts

101 months

Saturday 6th May 2017
quotequote all
Deptford Draylons said:
Does it meet what I guess are euro or western safety standards, can it be bought and operated by the like of BA and Virgin ?
Of course.
Pointless designing a multi million dollars airplane, and not selling it globally.

This I feel will really appeal to budget cost airlines, which really is where the mass people moving market is.

R1

djc206

12,747 posts

132 months

Saturday 6th May 2017
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
I would think the market place is a bit crowded for an aircraft in that category.
Especially given that it's less efficient than its competitors. The Chinese market however is sewn up.

I know aviation is booming in China but 2000 units pretty much all into the domestic market is ambitious is it not?

Heartworm

1,932 posts

168 months

Saturday 6th May 2017
quotequote all
Reported to be half the price is an airbus /boing, that's got to appeal to the budget sector.

CoolHands

19,435 posts

202 months

Saturday 6th May 2017
quotequote all
How long till the kick-backs in that dodgy country mean the correctly specced bolts etc get swapped for monkey metal fakes etc

Unless every step was monitored you'd end up with dodgy components. And if it was all monitored to that degree it'd cost as much as any other air plane maker, so not worth entering the market surely.

djc206

12,747 posts

132 months

Saturday 6th May 2017
quotequote all
Heartworm said:
Reported to be half the price is an airbus /boing, that's got to appeal to the budget sector.
That list price. What airlines actually pay for the airbus and Boeing products is a fraction of list.

djc206

12,747 posts

132 months

Saturday 6th May 2017
quotequote all
CoolHands said:
How long till the kick-backs in that dodgy country mean the correctly specced bolts etc get swapped for monkey metal fakes etc

Unless every step was monitored you'd end up with dodgy components. And if it was all monitored to that degree it'd cost as much as any other air plane maker, so not worth entering the market surely.
They don't need to do that and it would kill the industry immediately, they already assemble aircraft for Airbus without issue. Their offering is out of date tech and made from aluminium, it's decades behind airbus and boeings latest offerings and that's how it's so cheap.

jjohnson23

703 posts

120 months

Sunday 7th May 2017
quotequote all
I'm just waiting for one to appear on fleabay, 99p start / buy it now £1.99.
Most likely to be some sort of clone/copy,but as long as it works eh!
I like the Chinese,they can copy anything and sell it for pennies.

Chainsaw Rebuild

2,053 posts

109 months

Sunday 7th May 2017
quotequote all
I certainly wouldn't want to fly in it.

CanAm

10,033 posts

279 months

Sunday 7th May 2017
quotequote all
Chainsaw Rebuild said:
I certainly wouldn't want to fly in it.
According to Wikipedia
COMAC and Irish low-cost airline Ryanair signed an agreement to co-operate on the development of the C919. That fills me with confidence. Standing room only and coin-operated toilets?

RCBRG

603 posts

148 months

Sunday 7th May 2017
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i can see multiple similarities with the B787...

NicheMonkey

460 posts

135 months

Sunday 7th May 2017
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I work supplier quality in Aerospace and you would be surprised just how many parts for Airbus, Boeing & RR are manufactured in China as detail parts and then assembled in the UK/France/US. Lots of companies in the UK who win the work from the companies previously mentioned sub out the work to companies in China and from what I've seen they are capable of producing some very complex parts cheaper than in Europe.

CoolHands

19,435 posts

202 months

Sunday 7th May 2017
quotequote all
Yes but if UK/France/US weren't scrutiniseing the parts, how long do you think that quality would remain as high as it is? We know they can do It, but we also know they will fraudulently change the quality once the bid is up and running if they get the opportunity. Yes I'm tarring them all with the same brush as it's naive not too.

anonymous-user

61 months

Sunday 7th May 2017
quotequote all
NicheMonkey said:
I work supplier quality in Aerospace and you would be surprised just how many parts for Airbus, Boeing & RR are manufactured in China as detail parts and then assembled in the UK/France/US. Lots of companies in the UK who win the work from the companies previously mentioned sub out the work to companies in China and from what I've seen they are capable of producing some very complex parts cheaper than in Europe.
Comacs last effort the ARJ21 which is a B717 copy was built using the factory and machines where the 717 was actually made, even then the wings failed the stress tests and only 2 are flying. It still hasn't got FAA certification.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comac_ARJ21

I think it will be a long time before Ryanair are operating any C919s if ever.

Eric Mc

122,854 posts

272 months

Sunday 7th May 2017
quotequote all
They had a big stand at Farnborough Air Show last year with a huge array of models of their intended production. A lot were obviously DC-9/MD-80/717 derivatives.

McDonnell Douglas had intended to shift their MD-80?90 production to China back in the 1990s but the US government wouldn't allow the transfer of technology.

Fat Fairy

504 posts

193 months

Sunday 7th May 2017
quotequote all
Where I work, we are currently on the lookout for dodgy Chinese part rip-offs. Not parts important for structural integrity/safety, but they all come in very good looking fake packaging and with very authentic looking certification.

Until the Chinese get this kind of thing under control, I wouldn't fly with an airline using Chinese tech.

FF

SDarks

183 posts

99 months

Sunday 7th May 2017
quotequote all
I run a aircraft spares business and most of the units we sell for Boeing and airbus are manufactured by 3rd parties (Honeywell, Thales, RR, Hamilton etc) I would assume that Comac would be using the same setup to save costs?

Register1

2,279 posts

101 months

Sunday 7th May 2017
quotequote all
NicheMonkey said:
I work supplier quality in Aerospace and you would be surprised just how many parts for Airbus, Boeing & RR are manufactured in China as detail parts and then assembled in the UK/France/US. Lots of companies in the UK who win the work from the companies previously mentioned sub out the work to companies in China and from what I've seen they are capable of producing some very complex parts cheaper than in Europe.
I think some folk will always be "anti China"
No matter how successful they are, not you, but previous posters.

Even the die hard, would surely admit to the enviable success of the Chinese

R1