The real cost of running a light aircraft?

[megaphone]

I took 30min flying lesson in a single engined Piper aircraft, it was a present and cost around £130 I understand. It got me thinking about the economies of running a light aircraft. I asked the pilot a few questions, he told me...

About 8 US gallons an hour for fuel. So 32 litres @ £2.00 = £64/h on fuel.

Servicing every 50 hours! How much is a service?

The pilot, how much is he on? He said he was doing about 8 'gift' flights that day.

Airfield fees? Spares? Insurance? Inspections & certification?

And of course the purchase or lease of the actual aircraft.

Anyone ever done the sums? Any other costs I have not thought of?

[Geneve]

There are a lot of costs, insurance and long term maintenance provision amongst the most notable.

Aircraft operators have to make money while the suns shines, because they still consume expenditure whilst sitting in the hangar.

You should look at helicopter costs

[CharlieCrocodile]

50 hour inspection, 100 hour inspection, annual check, insurance, hangarage, landing fees

All adds up!

[Ford 2]

I have a ppl and trust me the costs are astronomical. Look up a c check.. That pilot was on roughly 30-40 quid of that money per lesson if he was lucky and then anything else the club may pay him. When I was learning it was 50 quid for every hour a trainer sat beside me and I have well into 3 figure hours and thats before running the plane at about 120 per hour

Edited by Ford 2 on Wednesday 2nd October 14:03

[creampuff]

In the US or Australia you can wet hire (ie includes fuel) a 4-seater for under $200/hour.

Personally I think it is not affordable for the average person in the UK but it is in the US or Australia (or other big countries where light aircraft are sometimes actually used for transport).

[h0b0]

megaphone said:

I took 30min flying lesson in a single engined Piper aircraft, it was a present and cost around £130 I understand. It got me thinking about the economies of running a light aircraft. I asked the pilot a few questions, he told me...

About 8 US gallons an hour for fuel. So 32 litres @ £2.00 = £64/h on fuel.

Servicing every 50 hours! How much is a service?

The pilot, how much is he on? He said he was doing about 8 'gift' flights that day.

Airfield fees? Spares? Insurance? Inspections & certification?

And of course the purchase or lease of the actual aircraft.

Anyone ever done the sums? Any other costs I have not thought of?

I know I am not answering your original question but.......

These gift experiences that are sold on Groupon and the like are run based on people not turning up. I spent some time at a helicopter school who explained that Groupon actively sell the concept based on a lack of turn out. There is a very surprising percentage of people that do not use the vouchers. If everyone did then the helicopter school would be bankrupt. But, some people do turn up and so they get their 15 minutes flying time. In my case he let me fly around the skies just north of NYC for nearly an hour before we headed back.

[jamieduff1981]

An aircraft with a Certificate of Airworthiness is capable of costing significantly more to maintain than one on a Permit to Fly - or specifically one on a PtF under the LAA's umbrella in the UK.

It's still far from a cheap hobby though. Infact, it's one where it only starts to make sense if you throw a lot of money at it.

Owning an aeroplane and reducing operating costs by not flying it still costs a lot of money but you get nothing for it. Owning an aeroplane and getting good value for the standing cost money means committing a lot more money for fuel and flying hours maintenance.

Still, it's nice to sit back and think "I own a plane" (which is pretty much all I have as mine is unfinished and thus unflyable!)

[Snappy89]

£130 for 30 mins?

Jeez when I was training for my PPL it was £100 for the whole hour, increasing to £110 at most.

[jjones]

consider a microlight,

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photo...

20k to buy
realistically 4-8k for licence
800 a year insurance
~100 a month hangarage
~500 year on maintenance (can do yourself)
12 litres an hour at ~100mph of unleaded 95

Edited by jjones on Thursday 3rd October 14:30

[LimaDelta]

There is a 1/6 share in a 172 near me. £80/month and £80/hour or thereabouts. From that we can estimate that your own aircraft flying 100 hours per year would cost around £7260 ex fuel or £13,760 including fuel. I would assume a proportion of that will be going into your prop/engine rebuild or paint fund.

I'm paying around £150/hr training at the moment. There are many extras to consider too, especially if training at a large establishment. I estimate £8k for my licence.

[mrloudly]

I used to own G-AVLN the annual costs were roughly

£3k hangar £2k insurance, £2 to £4k Maintenance £500 Fees (CAA Bullst) Allowance for Capital investment £35k in this case

This is before an engine fund or provision for any unforeseen problems (Screwed cylinders were a regular...). I'd say the aircraft needed
painting every ten years say £750 year.

I got fed up with the bullst and hangers on... I'm not allowed to work on the aircraft as a qualified mechanical engineer, yet it's
OK to let a spotty YTS trainee on £5/hr work on it whilst I pay his boss £65/hr and he signs the paperwork... No thanks...

[jonnyb]

The only way to make light aviation affordable is to get an aircraft on a Permit to Fly under the LAA. A friend of mine has a Falco and he reckoned about £120 per flying hour, to cover most of the annual costs.

[mikef]

I was treasurer of our flying syndicate. The posts above are in the right ballpark, but you need to take into account that some costs are fixed (hangarage, insurance), some hours-based (50-hour checks, annuals, star annuals) and some usage-based (tyres, engine fund, prop fund), plus of course fuel and oil.

The rule of thumb we came up with was that flying her fewer than 200 hours a year made ownership more expensive than renting (although availability and condition of aircraft was much better than most of what you can rent). Given that few PPLs find time to fly 40 hours a year, syndicates of 5 or 6 owners are pretty much the norm.

[creampuff]

mikef said:

I was treasurer of our flying syndicate. The posts above are in the right ballpark, but you need to take into account that some costs are fixed (hangarage, insurance), some hours-based (50-hour checks, annuals, star annuals) and some usage-based (tyres, engine fund, prop fund), plus of course fuel and oil.

The rule of thumb we came up with was that flying her fewer than 200 hours a year made ownership more expensive than renting (although availability and condition of aircraft was much better than most of what you can rent). Given that few PPLs find time to fly 40 hours a year, syndicates of 5 or 6 owners are pretty much the norm.

What do you think the total cost including everything (ie fixed costs, usage costs) would be for a syndicate member flying around 50 hours a year? Say in a Cessna 182 or similar?

[Krikkit]

Some of these costs are staggering. Presumably it's hilariously expensive to qualify to be able to perform maintenance yourself?

[mikef]

creampuff said:

What do you think the total cost including everything (ie fixed costs, usage costs) would be for a syndicate member flying around 50 hours a year? Say in a Cessna 182 or similar?

There are lot of variables in there...

Depends for instance on
- how many members (bear in mind that not all will fly 50 hours, many belong to syndicates to get guaranteed availability of a well-maintained a/c)
- where the a/c is based; hangarage at, say, Biggin Hill, is pretty expensive. Outdoor parking at a grass strip away from London would be much less
-cost of hull insurance (which in turn partly depends on the minimum hours and ratings the syndicate sets for its members)

The most current guide is to look at the Group Flying ads at the back of Flyer and Pilot mags

But be careful that some groups don't put money aside each hour flown for an engine fund and face a major cash call every 1200 to 2000 hours flown (I never want to go through that again!)

[creampuff]

I suspect owning an airplane isn't really any more expensive than having a couple of kids

[mikef]

That's true - and you can sell the aircraft if it's getting a bit much

[Eric Mc]

creampuff said:

I suspect owning an airplane isn't really any more expensive than having a couple of kids

Airplanes only exist in America

It's a lot cheaper to own and run a light AIRPLANE there.

[JBACON01]

Krikkit said:

Some of these costs are staggering. Presumably it's hilariously expensive to qualify to be able to perform maintenance yourself?

£12k for the last engine rebuild on one of the club pa28's if I recall right!

Pricing is ridiculously expensive.

I'm always amused when I do the preflight check on a pa28 and see the brake fluid reservoir, it's just a tin like you'd see in a hardware store for oil or stain with a screw on cap, but I bet the part from piper is a tad more expensive.