Luftwaffe piston job over Bracknell

[silverfoxcc]

About an hour ago had a luftwaffe marked single engined low wing monoplane circling over Bracknell. did a couple of circuits and disappeared in the general direction of Farnborough
The wings appeared to be clipped and the cockpit was a rather large glass affair. however the 'music' was very nice

Any ideas what it might have been?

[davepoth]

At a guess a BF-109, or one of the Hispano engined sort of ones from after the war.

[eharding]

More likely to be the Bf 108 Taifun based at White Waltham....

[FourWheelDrift]

silverfoxcc said:

did a couple of circuits and disappeared in the general direction of Farnborough


Any ideas what it might have been?

Lost?

[Tango13]

silverfoxcc said:

Any ideas what it might have been?

73 years too late?

[tight5]

there's been one at Sunderland airshow today ( flying out of Newcastle ) .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buch%C3%B3n#HA-1112-M...
http://www.airshows.org.uk/2013/airshows/uk-airsho...
http://www.on-target-aviation.com/Buchon-G-BWUE-Br...

[Smiler.]

eharding said:

More likely to be the Bf 108 Taifun based at White Waltham....

I thought it flew over around midday today, but didn't get a good look.

Do you know what engine it has? I don't recall the sound being particularly great, though I've never heard it at full chat.

The Yaks have a deeper sound, even when plodding by.

[Eric Mc]

The Spanish "109" is actually the Hispano 1112 - essentially a 109G fitted with a Rolls Royce Merlin. Obviously, they sound a bit like a Spitfire - although, to me, they always sound a bit closer to a P-51 Mustang.

This is what a Hispano 1112 looks like.



The Messerschmit Bf108 was a pre-war sports/touring aircraft which has a familial resemblance to the 109, but is much lower powered being a light aeroplane as opposed to a fighter -

[eharding]

Smiler. said:

eharding said:

More likely to be the Bf 108 Taifun based at White Waltham....

I thought it flew over around midday today, but didn't get a good look.

Do you know what engine it has? I don't recall the sound being particularly great, though I've never heard it at full chat.

The Yaks have a deeper sound, even when plodding by.

The one at Waltham is actually on the register as a Nord - although in the immediate post-war chaos records of which airframes were manufactured by who, and when, weren't exactly perfect. That particular example has a Lycoming in it now.

...and Yaks don't plod. They thunder. Slowly.

[Hooli]

Eww those Merlin 109s look wrong!

[Eric Mc]

109s had a wide variety of engines over their 20 year production life.

The prototype has a Rolls Royce Kestrel

Models A to D had Junkers Jumo 210

Models E and F had Daimler Benz 601s

The Model G and K had the DB605

The Spanish built HA1112 started life with Hispano 12Z and later versions were fitted with Rolls Royce Merlins.

The Czech built Avia S99 and S199 were fitted with Junkers Jumo 211s.

[Hooli]

Eric Mc said:

109s had a wide variety of engines over their 20 year production life.

The prototype has a Rolls Royce Kestrel

Models A to D had Junkers Jumo 210

Models E and F had Daimler Benz 601s

The Model G and K had the DB605

The Spanish built HA1112 started life with Hispano 12Z and later versions were fitted with Rolls Royce Merlins.

The Czech built Avia S99 and S199 were fitted with Junkers Jumo 211s.

I know Eric. It's just that the Merlin engined one looks like a Spit nose has been bolted on, it just doesn't go with the rest of the airframe. Mind you, I can't recall how the Kestrel engined one/s looked.

[tight5]

Hooli said:

I can't recall how the Kestrel engined one/s looked.

I think these are right

[FourWheelDrift]

The Avia S199 has the fattest prop blades I've ever seen on a fighter.

[Eric Mc]

The Merlin installation on the 1112 looks quite a bit different to how it looks on a Spit. The main visual difference is that the 1112 has a large air intake under the nose - which the Spitfire lacks (except on those fited with Volkes or Aboukir filters.

All the "109s" in the film "Battle of Britain" were Merlin powered 1112s dummied up a bit and repainted to make them look like 109Es.

[Eric Mc]

FourWheelDrift said:

The Avia S199 has the fattest prop blades I've ever seen on a fighter.

It was a real pig of an aeroplane. The nickname for it was "Mezek", which is Czech for "Mule". The Junkers engines were fitted because the warehouse in which the stored DB605s were kept was destroyed by fire (probably arson) and the only alternative they had were Jumo 211s - designed for installation in the Heinkel He111 bomber.

[Mojocvh]

I'm a bit lost on the meaning of the "X" marking behind the fuselage cross????

[Eric Mc]

That marking was worn on Luftwaffe aircraft during the Spanish Civil War. It was the insignia of the Franco Fascist Air Force and the Luftwaffe Condor Legion. That 109E is actually in World War colours but I presume that the pilot was a Spanish Civil War veteran and had the Condor Legion symbol applied to his aircraft.

You can see it here on this 109D model. I think the marking is a derivation of the black cross on white background which is actually the Cross of St Andrew - as carried on the tail fin.

[Ginetta G15 Girl]

Mojocvh said:

I'm a bit lost on the meaning of the "X" marking behind the fuselage cross????

I'm not sure it is accurate. It doesn't seem to be a Luftwaffe tactical symbol, but rather the recognition symbol used during the Spanish Civil War. However such symbols replaced the Balkenkreuz (German Cross).

Furthermore these would have been the wing markings - the fuselage marking was a simple black disc.

[Eric Mc]

Generally speaking, you are correct, the fuselage insignia was a simple black disc. On occasions, however, there would be another symbol placed on the disc. Here's a picture of a 109 sporting the white cross on the fuselage black disc -