Dornier 17 wreck

[Crafty_]

Did this ever get recovered? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-137...

ETA: Just found this http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/cosford/things-to-see-... They hope to recover it in May this year.

Looks far more interesting than muddy boxes of water in Burma!

Edited by Crafty_ on Sunday 20th January 10:19

[Eric Mc]

And it's definitely there. It still contains 1940 air in its tyres.

[G600]

Good old daily mail, it says they were 1st built as passenger jets, funny they don't look like they have jets to me.

Edited by G600 on Sunday 20th January 13:30

[Crafty_]

well, they're sort of jets.. with props. and pistons

[Eric Mc]

G600 said:

Good old daily mail, it says they were 1st built as passenger jets, funny they don't look like they have jets to me.

Edited by G600 on Sunday 20th January 13:30

You can get a little bit of "jet" propulsion from a piston engined aircraft - if you are clever with the exhaust and radiator arrangements. The Spitfire, Mustang and 109 used these types of tricks to get a little bit of extra thrust. Not sure if any of the Dornier 17 family ever used such techniques though.

[Negative Creep]

Eric Mc said:

G600 said:

Good old daily mail, it says they were 1st built as passenger jets, funny they don't look like they have jets to me.

Edited by G600 on Sunday 20th January 13:30

You can get a little bit of "jet" propulsion from a piston engined aircraft - if you are clever with the exhaust and radiator arrangements. The Spitfire, Mustang and 109 used these types of tricks to get a little bit of extra thrust. Not sure if any of the Dornier 17 family ever used such techniques though.

Wasn't it primarily meant as a mail plane?

[AMD87]

G600 said:

Good old daily mail, it says they were 1st built as passenger jets, funny they don't look like they have jets to me.

Edited by G600 on Sunday 20th January 13:30

Almost as bad as the guy in my work talking about how he got a compression test on the pistons in his RX8...

[Eric Mc]

Negative Creep said:

Wasn't it primarily meant as a mail plane?

Officially yes. In reality, no.

In the early 1930s, when the German Air Ministry started secretly issuing specifications for new bomber aircraft, Germany was still officially bound by the terms of the Treaty of Versailles - which banned them from building bomber aircraft. The specifications were therefore issued as mailplanes or airliners in order to disguise their true intent.

The Dornier Do17 was one of these designs, as was the Heinkel He111 - both of which went on to be mainstream bombers with the Luftwaffe.

[Dr Jekyll]

Eric Mc said:

In the early 1930s, when the German Air Ministry started secretly issuing specifications for new bomber aircraft, Germany was still officially bound by the terms of the Treaty of Versailles - which banned them from building bomber aircraft. The specifications were therefore issued as mailplanes or airliners in order to disguise their true intent.

Somewhat off topic, but was the BF109 really developed from the BF108, or did Messerschmitt have the idea for the fighter first and build the 108 as practice for building the fighter?

[Negative Creep]

Eric Mc said:

Negative Creep said:

Wasn't it primarily meant as a mail plane?

Officially yes. In reality, no.

In the early 1930s, when the German Air Ministry started secretly issuing specifications for new bomber aircraft, Germany was still officially bound by the terms of the Treaty of Versailles - which banned them from building bomber aircraft. The specifications were therefore issued as mailplanes or airliners in order to disguise their true intent.

The Dornier Do17 was one of these designs, as was the Heinkel He111 - both of which went on to be mainstream bombers with the Luftwaffe.

Must have been very cozy with 6 passengers on board! Lucky for us they concentrated on medium tactical bombers and weren't producing them at full capacity

[Simpo Two]

Dr Jekyll said:

Somewhat off topic, but was the BF109 really developed from the BF108

That's as I understand it. Mind you in the 1930s the Luftwaffe was not supposed to be building warplanes so much development was done in the guise of civil aircraft - the He-111 and Fw Condor looking quite odd as passenger aircraft!

[anonymous-user]

Simpo Two said:

Dr Jekyll said:

Somewhat off topic, but was the BF109 really developed from the BF108

That's as I understand it. Mind you in the 1930s the Luftwaffe was not supposed to be building warplanes so much development was done in the guise of civil aircraft - the He-111 and Fw Condor looking quite odd as passenger aircraft!

Yup military aircraft developed as passenger aircraft thousands of highly skilled pilots being trained in gliding clubs. Germany still has a strong tradition in gliding and glider production today.

[Eric Mc]

Simpo Two said:

Dr Jekyll said:

Somewhat off topic, but was the BF109 really developed from the BF108

That's as I understand it. Mind you in the 1930s the Luftwaffe was not supposed to be building warplanes so much development was done in the guise of civil aircraft - the He-111 and Fw Condor looking quite odd as passenger aircraft!

The Condor is the odd one out. It really WAS designed as an airliner and then converted into along range maritime patrol airraft. It was not really robust enough for the military role it was assigned - in particular the tail structure was extremely weak.

[danjama]

I've always had a bit of a soft spot for the Do-17. Such a unique shape. Really hope they can drag this up in one peice.

[FourWheelDrift]

Dr Jekyll said:

Somewhat off topic, but was the BF109 really developed from the BF108, or did Messerschmitt have the idea for the fighter first and build the 108 as practice for building the fighter?

Separate aircraft designs for different jobs but started around the same time. The 109 started life with the 1933 Defence requirement for a fighter to replace the then currently in service Heinkel He51 and Arado biplanes. Heinkel and Focke-Wulf also produced designs in competition with Messerschmitt. The protoype 109s running with Rolls-Royce Kestrel engines. The 108 was designed from the outset as a 4 seater sorts tourer.

[DH01]

They're lifting it any day soon. The boats are arriving at Ramsgate to do the dives and lift.

[Vince70]

Negative Creep said:

Must have been very cozy with 6 passengers on board! Lucky for us they concentrated on medium tactical bombers and weren't producing them at full capacity

I always liked the look of the flying pencil, any idea where it will be going once its been lifted from the Goodwin sands.

Well they did try later on during the war at producing a heavy bomber in the Heinkel 177 which was too little to late for the Germans which was nicknamed the flying coffin during to problems with overheating and catching fire it was only used in any force during operation steinbock during the mini blitz of 44 in the west.

[IanMorewood]

Vince70 said:

any idea where it will be going once its been lifted from the Goodwin sands.

Michael Beetham Conservation Centre at Cosford, once its done I would guess Cosford or Hendon will have first dibs on it.

Edit for smelling mistook.

[pherlopolus]

It is well worth the trip to one of the conservation centre open days, more so when this is in there

[Eric Mc]

The Cosford Restoration Centre always opens the weekend of the big model show at Telford. Quite a few model enthusiasts (including me) pop in on the way home from Scalemodelworld.