making an offer & margins on a boat

[fellatthefirst]

Hi all,

(just out of interest) I was wondering if you buy a brand new yacht what sort of money can you expect to get knocked off on making an offer? I was at the boat show on the opening day and saw the new Sunseeker 28m Yacht I believe it was about 5.2mill. What sort of offer would be acceptable to make on something like that?

What about margins on a boat of that size? Does anyone know what sort of profit SS make on it?

Here it is..

[cabbron]

not sure tbh but guessing at least 10%.boat show looked busy!

[Benjaminpalma]

It various hugely from yard to yard and county to country. Italian yards, for example, making products similar to Sunseeker, have historically included far greater margins, using style to make up for substance.

Nowadays you also need to know how financially sound a particular yard is, and so how desperate they are for the sale.

And if you have a direct contact at the yard, enabling you to circumvent troublesome brokers, then this helps, too.

PM me if you're intending to make a serious offer.

[Mike Random]

There are a number of things to look at with this,

As has been said above regarding the finically security of the yard, what are your plans with the boat usage wise, re sale value, running costs, crew etc.

I am sure you could get a similar one nearly new for less, or an alternative brand.

Mike

[fellatthefirst]

Interesting info thanks.

I'm not in a position to buy yet, but after seeing them at the boat show it's something I would definitely like to go for in the future.

I would never buy new anyway, after looking at what's available on the second hand market there is some good value to be had.

I was just being inquisitive on margins on a brand new boat. I mean if you consider what £5mill would buy you in bricks and mortar, I cant imagine the boat cost anywhere near that to manufacturer? Hence an enormous mark up? But then I guess they aren't selling 100 of these a month or even a year so it's all relative?

Is chartering a worthwhile option if you own a boat? I mean are there really a decent number of people out there who are willing to pay £50k+ a week for your boat? How many times a year would (realistically) your boat be chartered out? I'm so green to this so excuse my ignorance.

Thanks in advance for the info.

[Mike Random]

For sure you could charter it if you went with a decent reputable broker and was realistic in price.

As you say they don't make 100's a year but also it was not that long ago that Sunseeker had quite a lot of stock in Poole, that said l think this is a new model.

Mike

[psychoR1]

Mike Random said:

For sure you could charter it if you went with a decent reputable broker and was realistic in price.

As you say they don't make 100's a year but also it was not that long ago that Sunseeker had quite a lot of stock in Poole, that said l think this is a new model.

Mike

slightly OT but I had a tour of that very boat on Sunday - I was told that a certain Mr Button had been giving it the once over earlier in the weekend....

[Chrisgr31]

A friend went on Thursday and said that he thought the Show was poor as there was little of interest to those interested in smaller boats. A couple of dealers he knows also said they had not done a single deal at the Show which was a first for them.

[bga]

Benjaminpalma said:

. Italian yards, for example, making products similar to Sunseeker, have historically included far greater margins, using style to make up for substance.

It sounds like the Italians are playing Sunseeker at their own game.

[Benjaminpalma]

bga said:

Benjaminpalma said:

. Italian yards, for example, making products similar to Sunseeker, have historically included far greater margins, using style to make up for substance.

It sounds like the Italians are playing Sunseeker at their own game.

The Italians invented the game, and still dominate the production / semi-custom market. We were woefully slow to start catching up - and we've still a long way to go.

[Benjaminpalma]

fellatthefirst said:

Interesting info thanks.

Is chartering a worthwhile option if you own a boat? I mean are there really a decent number of people out there who are willing to pay £50k+ a week for your boat? How many times a year would (realistically) your boat be chartered out? I'm so green to this so excuse my ignorance.

Thanks in advance for the info.

Boats being chartered-out have to meet various safety standards. Also, depending on size, various safety management systems must be in place. If you're chartering in certain countries you may also need a licence. Chartering can offset your costs substantially. You could even have the boat paying for itself, but then you'd have little time in-season to enjoy her yourself. And there's the extra wear'n'tear and engine hours to consider. Also, a lot of people simply don't like strangers sleeping in their beds.

About 20% of yachts 30m+ are actively chartered-out. Many appear to be chartered but in fact this is their owners jumping through VAT loopholes (some legal, many not).

A common mistake is buy a yacht for chartering which isn't 'coded' (and registered) for charter, needing sometimes uneconomic sums spent bringing her up to spec.

[Shadow62]

Don't think you will get much off new 28M 2 year waiting list.

A dealer stock boat expect 10-20%

[onyx39]

I used to do some business with Sunseeker several years ago and I seem to recall being told by my contact that the business owner(s)kept company profits very close to their chest, but they were highly profitable, from this point of view, I am sure there must be some leeway in there, I cannot imagine that as many of these things are being sold in the current financial climate.

[SpeedYellow]

Sunseeker in particular are very good at managing supply and demand at the moment, they have a huge range and all of the current models have waiting lists. The 28m is now up to nearly 3 years for instance and as Sunseeker are back in the position of building to order I'd be amazed if you could get any discount, most I'd imagine is some movement on options, don't forget a £5.2M boat will be £6m+ in the water fully kitted out.

As Shadow states if you could find a stock boat there is movement but stock current model boats are very very rare these days.

As for Charter, Sunseeker Charters run a very good business and manage to offset some of the ownership costs but don't think you can make a profit out of a boat when all costs are included. The med for instance is a very busy market and getting a berth in the right place, the right crew to keep the boat in good condition and having the right boat is challenging. Then think in a couple of years time when the new model comes out yours is the older boat, not a problem for you but you'll have to drop your price against the new boats on offer in the market.

Shadow's boat for instance is a great spec for chartering, is in the perfect colours to stand out in the Med, truly as new (I'm moored next to it currently), has the right toys onboard and is in the perfect location this summer and in my option is extremely good value on charter being well priced for the market but if you look at all his costs it's one of those businesses you're bank manager would shiver at!

[Henry-F]

There will always be an element of wriggle room in a new boat largely to help owners trading up from smaller boats. If you trade up within a short enough time frame you'll generally get what you paid for your smaller boat in p/x against the larger one. This of course means a possible haggle on list if there is no p/x.

As has been said already the closer a boat is to completion the more likely you are to get a deal, the best option being a stock boat which has landed with the dealer. With very large boats that will never happen. Such is the level of customisation a boat will be built to order rather than to a standard spec. There will be layout options, equipment options and so on.

As for chartering there are people who pay and often a lot more than £50 per week! Keep in mind a boat like the big Sunseeker will have a full time crew who command a decent wage. The coding for charter will be built in during construction and actually forms a tiny part of the overall cost. There are limitations on weight and number of guests on board.

I was at the boat show twice this year and never saw anything like the crowds of that picture. I wonder if the photo was taken on Thursday night when a couple of the manufacturers held parties.

I was at the show courtesy of Princess and can report they most definitely had something of interest in the smaller boat range. They launched the V39 which is a phenomenal boat and one which will create a huge amount of interest. Having commented on the big Sunseeker I'm not sure how small, small is ! There were a number of used boats available for those on a budget as well.

As for no business being done as I was sitting with one of the Sales Directors of Princess having a glass of wine and a chat 2 orders were brought over for his approval. Both resulted in deposits being taken and I know that for a fact because one of the boats was a vessel I had a passing interest in!

The days I was there I felt some of the sales staff were under used but of course there will always be quiet moments and you have to staff for your busiest periods. I wonder if it was a case of fewer numbers but more concentrated buyers. We have noticed that on the Porsche side of things of late.

I enjoyed my day and afternoon at the boat show. My show of choice is still Southampton only because entire ranges tend to be on show and the boats are on the water which gives a realistic setting in which to deliberate.

If your friend is struggling to find something in his price range then I do know of a rather lovely Princess 42 Flybridge available pending an owner upgrade

All the best

Henry

[Davey S2]

Henry-F said:

If your friend is struggling to find something in his price range then I do know of a rather lovely Princess 42 Flybridge available pending an owner upgrade

All the best

Henry

Great advert and photos.

[fellatthefirst]

FYI i took the picture on the first day at about 10am when they unveiled that particular boat.

Escala were playing live on the boat which is there is a crowd.