Gin palace suggestions... an idle daydream...
Discussion
Ratty said:
"Believe me, my young friend, there is NOTHING--absolute nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats. Simply messing,' he went on dreamily: `messing--about--in--boats; messing----"
... just before he ran into the bank... which will no doubt sum up boating skills too...OK, so I'm tempted with the idea of getting into this boating malarky and looking for some suggestions of what to look at, what's good, what's bad and things to be aware of etc. I'm sure there will be many opinions but know there are some experienced boating people on this forum, whose opinions I respect, so perhaps I can at least pick the bones out as to what to avoid.
What do I want to use the boat for? I hear you ask. A bolt hole and socialising. Initially for pottering around on in good weather, entertaining up to about 8-10 people. So I favour boats with bigger cockpits, wet bars, bbqs etc. I would also plan to occasionally sleep on board, so needs to have reasonably comfortable berths, galley and saloon. Initially it would be inland and coastal cruising, but longer term would look to cross channel, with sleeping accommodation for up to 5 people.
I'm thinking 35' would be about the minimum, but a bit cramped, so looking at 37'-40 something' would be more comfortable. I'm quite particular in how things look, so aesthetics are important, inside and out. I favour modern, sleek sports type boats and dislike classic motor boats (classic Riva launches, Fairey and the like accepted). I appreciate some of them them to a degree, but most look draughty, sit up and beg, with loads of wood to maintain and often somewhat chintzy (funnily enough, I'm the opposite when it comes to sail and love traditional wooden boats).
Following on from the recent Sealine SC35 thread I find some modern designs can also be 'boxy' and not to my liking. Even though mentioned that it may have been a good value boat with clever use of space etc. But I don't tend to be associated with the term 'value for money' and would rather pay more, relatively, for better quality. Life has also taught me that whenever I have 'saved money' and gone for the cheaper option, I'm never happy and end up paying more in the long run. As to my budget, a ball park £70-100k, possibly more depending on finance. (I'm well aware that running costs, berthing, insurance, maintenance etc. need to be taken into account, but that's not what I'm asking about in this thread).
Hopefully that is enough to purchase something half decent. I appreciate that depending on age, size condition, location etc. can have a large bearing on prices. Have to admit, as I trawl around broker's web sites, the yacht market etc. the range of boats and the price variation, even for the same model, can be utterly bewildering.
I guess the boats that look appealing to me are fairly obvious choices like the Fairline Targa range, up to a Sunseeker Camargue 44 (out of budget, unless I got lucky, but I like the layout), to give you an idea. As well as older farts like myself, I would also be having younger people as guests, who would lay about in the sun (think models in bikinis) or swim off the back.
Other questions I'm pondering are sports boat v flybridge. I appreciate there's more living space in a flybridge, but smaller outside space (with the smaller boats I'd be looking at), plus possibly more limited on inland waters due to bridges.
Another one is how much maintenance do stern drives require compared to shaft? I read Shaft is more reliable and easier to maintain. But I guess that would be a bit Hobson's choice depending on boat model.
Hull design. After having recently enjoyed a jolly on Mr M's Sunseeker (ta muchly), I was interested to learn that Sunseeker hulls can cope better than others in heavy seas. It's not my intention to go out in a force 8 but I know enough about the sea to know that things can change quickly.
I have thought about starting with something smaller, more of a day boat, but it seems that everyone who buys a boat, ends up selling it and buying a bigger one! So I thought it would make more sense to cut out that step, rather than be frustrated (if my numbers came up on the Euro lottery, I'd be straight out to buy a Princess V72, or the like!).
I should maybe add that although I'm new to boat ownership, I'm not a complete nautical numpty. Coming from a nautical family, in my youth I was very keen and learnt a lot about seamanship and coastal navigation etc. But, it has to be said, I'm somewhat rusty. However, I intend to do the day skipper and coastal skipper YHA courses, so as to keep my calls to the RNLI at a minimum!
So, with so many manufacturers with large ranges of models, maybe someone can suggest some less obvious names and models for me to investigate? All thoughts and suggestions gratefully received. I'll now brace myself for some pee taking from certain quarters...
Cheers
Paul
"Sunseeker hulls can cope better than others in heavy seas"
I'll tell that to the fellow who sea trialed one with my Boss! He managed a double flip with a tripple salco, before landing in amongst the furniture that was sliding around inside.
If you like the more modern sleek looking jobbies, you aren't going to get good seakeeping IMO.
There's a reason traditional boats where built the way they where. Displacement hull is the way to go for seakeeping.
Flybridge boat is good for entertaining though, as that's where everyone ends up. A bit like the kitchen at a house party.
<pedant mode on> you swim off the stern, not the back <pedant mode off>
I'll tell that to the fellow who sea trialed one with my Boss! He managed a double flip with a tripple salco, before landing in amongst the furniture that was sliding around inside.
If you like the more modern sleek looking jobbies, you aren't going to get good seakeeping IMO.
There's a reason traditional boats where built the way they where. Displacement hull is the way to go for seakeeping.
Flybridge boat is good for entertaining though, as that's where everyone ends up. A bit like the kitchen at a house party.
<pedant mode on> you swim off the stern, not the back <pedant mode off>
Ha, knew you'd succumb. 
Probably the first the first question you need to answer is whether you are happy to do some work on it or not. Obviously if you are happy / enjoy tinkering around you will get a lot more for your money.
The other one is to be totally honest with yourself as to whether you are an upgrader or not. If you want the latest all singing and dancing electronics there is no point paying for a toy that is already equipped with stuff you might rip out.
For my money I prefer a slightly older boat as I think generally boat design over the years have deteriorated into selling stuff internally at the expense of good hull design.
If youreally want to understand seakeeping ability at speed then have a look at offshore marathon racing. This year's Cowes - Torquay - Cowes yet again won by a forty year old Don Shead design albeit re-engined with the latest in propulsion technology. There is a reason they use these older designs.
As years have gone on the onus has become one of designing a powerboat hull around an interior rather than fitting an interior to an excellent hull design.
You will find yourself a lot more comfortable on board offshore sticking with one of the four. Sunseeker / Princess / Fairline / Sealine . For me personally in that order although each has it's up and down sides.
If you even look at an American boat expect to spill your G&T before you have left the berth let alone out at sea.
And if you look at an Italian effort expect it to be a lot lighter when you arrive back at the berth for all the bits that have fallen off on the journey.
A sunny will generally have a deeper vee than the other three which gives a softer ride through the thick stuff but will not be as stable at anchor with any side sea. It will also tend to heel more in a turn which is probably where Mick is coming from, having said that you can be a nob on the helm in any boat.
Sports versus fly is a matter of taste but also realise that a flybridge is also going to have a higher centre of gravity and they are not much fun in a beam sea. Personally I go out on the boat to be out in the open not shut in a lounge under a flybridge.
Shaft or drives again each has it's benefits. Shafts don't go aground with out a lot of damage, drives are higher maintenance. Drives tend to be a bit more efficient speed and fuel wise as you can trim the angle of attack. Shafts once you are used to them are better in close quarter maneuvers.
If you are really concerned about thrusters etc then I would politely suggest the better route would be to take some training rather than shelling out on something else to fall apart.
The most efficient form of toilet is a manual pump effort. Wives who love the vacuum etc flush are not normally the ones who end taking them apart so tell them to keep their opinions to themselves unless they are qualified as a contortionist plumber.
Older boat clues.
Upholstery does not cost a fortune to replace. Even three year old upholstery that looks ok can start to fall apart with use if the sun has got to it.
Gelcoat can generally be bought back to a high level of finish regardless of how poor it looks.
Diesel engines that have an average of 20 hours a year on them are generally going to be a pain in the arse. Diesels with seawater around them like to be used. Have the oils tested to determine internal wear and ignore the hours.
Battery sets on a three year old can be just as f
ked as those on a 20 year old. You will never have enough batteries on board, just accept that fact or get a genny.
Engine room / bilges should be clean and not left unmaintained / swilling with rusty oily water.
Nav equipment is not as expensive as one may think if you just start afresh.
A boat that has a lot of alterations already carried out may not be in that good order electrically.
Check the ancilllary equipment. Good ropes / fenders / hooks / anchors / shore leads etc are worth money and show a previous owner that knows what they are about on board.
Reverse cycle air con / heating is so much more pleasant than an after market diesel heater regardless of the fancy digital control.
Icemaker and chest for me is more benefit than a built in fridge upstairs that can take 2 bottles of wine and one beer.
Magma Barbeques are just the best for on board cooking. As nice as it is having a galley downstairs would you have an alcantara ceiling in your home kitchen? If you want a griddle buy a George Foreman they are much cleaner once launched over the side after cooking.
Onboard generators are a real boon if you want to stay at anchor otherwise just buy an all in one camping gas cooker to heat a kettle.
Boats are always a compromise, new or old. For my money I would keep back money and alter my purchase to suit my needs.
And newer or older if you are going to use a boat hard keep an eye for whether that laquered table is really going to stand up to use or will you get pissed off that every time you hit a wave your phone slides off it and whacks the deck.
And I know I have said this to you but keep an open mind as to where the boat is. A cheap boat in Spain will not cost that much to get back and is fun in the process.
I am of course available for the trip back!
Probably the first the first question you need to answer is whether you are happy to do some work on it or not. Obviously if you are happy / enjoy tinkering around you will get a lot more for your money.
The other one is to be totally honest with yourself as to whether you are an upgrader or not. If you want the latest all singing and dancing electronics there is no point paying for a toy that is already equipped with stuff you might rip out.
For my money I prefer a slightly older boat as I think generally boat design over the years have deteriorated into selling stuff internally at the expense of good hull design.
If youreally want to understand seakeeping ability at speed then have a look at offshore marathon racing. This year's Cowes - Torquay - Cowes yet again won by a forty year old Don Shead design albeit re-engined with the latest in propulsion technology. There is a reason they use these older designs.
As years have gone on the onus has become one of designing a powerboat hull around an interior rather than fitting an interior to an excellent hull design.
You will find yourself a lot more comfortable on board offshore sticking with one of the four. Sunseeker / Princess / Fairline / Sealine . For me personally in that order although each has it's up and down sides.
If you even look at an American boat expect to spill your G&T before you have left the berth let alone out at sea.
And if you look at an Italian effort expect it to be a lot lighter when you arrive back at the berth for all the bits that have fallen off on the journey.
A sunny will generally have a deeper vee than the other three which gives a softer ride through the thick stuff but will not be as stable at anchor with any side sea. It will also tend to heel more in a turn which is probably where Mick is coming from, having said that you can be a nob on the helm in any boat.
Sports versus fly is a matter of taste but also realise that a flybridge is also going to have a higher centre of gravity and they are not much fun in a beam sea. Personally I go out on the boat to be out in the open not shut in a lounge under a flybridge.
Shaft or drives again each has it's benefits. Shafts don't go aground with out a lot of damage, drives are higher maintenance. Drives tend to be a bit more efficient speed and fuel wise as you can trim the angle of attack. Shafts once you are used to them are better in close quarter maneuvers.
If you are really concerned about thrusters etc then I would politely suggest the better route would be to take some training rather than shelling out on something else to fall apart.
The most efficient form of toilet is a manual pump effort. Wives who love the vacuum etc flush are not normally the ones who end taking them apart so tell them to keep their opinions to themselves unless they are qualified as a contortionist plumber.
Older boat clues.
Upholstery does not cost a fortune to replace. Even three year old upholstery that looks ok can start to fall apart with use if the sun has got to it.
Gelcoat can generally be bought back to a high level of finish regardless of how poor it looks.
Diesel engines that have an average of 20 hours a year on them are generally going to be a pain in the arse. Diesels with seawater around them like to be used. Have the oils tested to determine internal wear and ignore the hours.
Battery sets on a three year old can be just as f
ked as those on a 20 year old. You will never have enough batteries on board, just accept that fact or get a genny.Engine room / bilges should be clean and not left unmaintained / swilling with rusty oily water.
Nav equipment is not as expensive as one may think if you just start afresh.
A boat that has a lot of alterations already carried out may not be in that good order electrically.
Check the ancilllary equipment. Good ropes / fenders / hooks / anchors / shore leads etc are worth money and show a previous owner that knows what they are about on board.
Reverse cycle air con / heating is so much more pleasant than an after market diesel heater regardless of the fancy digital control.
Icemaker and chest for me is more benefit than a built in fridge upstairs that can take 2 bottles of wine and one beer.
Magma Barbeques are just the best for on board cooking. As nice as it is having a galley downstairs would you have an alcantara ceiling in your home kitchen? If you want a griddle buy a George Foreman they are much cleaner once launched over the side after cooking.
Onboard generators are a real boon if you want to stay at anchor otherwise just buy an all in one camping gas cooker to heat a kettle.
Boats are always a compromise, new or old. For my money I would keep back money and alter my purchase to suit my needs.
And newer or older if you are going to use a boat hard keep an eye for whether that laquered table is really going to stand up to use or will you get pissed off that every time you hit a wave your phone slides off it and whacks the deck.
And I know I have said this to you but keep an open mind as to where the boat is. A cheap boat in Spain will not cost that much to get back and is fun in the process.
I am of course available for the trip back!
I know you like the boats that look like the Sydney opera house, but you can't tell me this isn't sweet, surely?
http://www.sandemanyachtcompany.co.uk/details/364/...
If you'd be interested in an ex Cowes Harbourmaster Nelson 34 that's just gone through some extensive re-fit, pm me. It "may" be up for grabs. Well within your budget I think.
"It's made of wood so Mick will like it too" Mmmm....
never realy been a fan of red. 
http://www.sandemanyachtcompany.co.uk/details/364/...
If you'd be interested in an ex Cowes Harbourmaster Nelson 34 that's just gone through some extensive re-fit, pm me. It "may" be up for grabs. Well within your budget I think.
"It's made of wood so Mick will like it too" Mmmm....
never realy been a fan of red. Edited by mickrick on Friday 28th October 14:42
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
Surely a little research in the magazines until January and you can go tyre fender kicking at the London Boat show to at least step aboard all different types, styles and manner of boats ? Should help whittle down the field a little ?
If he was buying new, yes, but if hunting in the 10-15y/o market probably less so. But you can't buy one from looking at photos, eventually you have to go see some, and you will probably know the moment you step inside whether you like it or not. Photos can be deceptive. Visits are also useful for finding out what you *don't* like! I found that buying a s/h boat was more like buying a small, very complicated house than like buying a car, which is really just a commodity. I looked at 12-13 different boats and then, armed with that knowledge and what the 'breed standard was', when you see the right one you can simply go 'done' and lob in an offer.MOTORVATOR said:
Ha, knew you'd succumb.
Probably the first the first question you need to answer is whether you are happy to do some work on it or not. Obviously if you are happy / enjoy tinkering around you will get a lot more for your money.
The other one is to be totally honest with yourself as to whether you are an upgrader or not. If you want the latest all singing and dancing electronics there is no point paying for a toy that is already equipped with stuff you might rip out.
For my money I prefer a slightly older boat as I think generally boat design over the years have deteriorated into selling stuff internally at the expense of good hull design.
If youreally want to understand seakeeping ability at speed then have a look at offshore marathon racing. This year's Cowes - Torquay - Cowes yet again won by a forty year old Don Shead design albeit re-engined with the latest in propulsion technology. There is a reason they use these older designs.
As years have gone on the onus has become one of designing a powerboat hull around an interior rather than fitting an interior to an excellent hull design.
You will find yourself a lot more comfortable on board offshore sticking with one of the four. Sunseeker / Princess / Fairline / Sealine . For me personally in that order although each has it's up and down sides.
If you even look at an American boat expect to spill your G&T before you have left the berth let alone out at sea.
And if you look at an Italian effort expect it to be a lot lighter when you arrive back at the berth for all the bits that have fallen off on the journey.
A sunny will generally have a deeper vee than the other three which gives a softer ride through the thick stuff but will not be as stable at anchor with any side sea. It will also tend to heel more in a turn which is probably where Mick is coming from, having said that you can be a nob on the helm in any boat.
Sports versus fly is a matter of taste but also realise that a flybridge is also going to have a higher centre of gravity and they are not much fun in a beam sea. Personally I go out on the boat to be out in the open not shut in a lounge under a flybridge.
Shaft or drives again each has it's benefits. Shafts don't go aground with out a lot of damage, drives are higher maintenance. Drives tend to be a bit more efficient speed and fuel wise as you can trim the angle of attack. Shafts once you are used to them are better in close quarter maneuvers.
If you are really concerned about thrusters etc then I would politely suggest the better route would be to take some training rather than shelling out on something else to fall apart.
The most efficient form of toilet is a manual pump effort. Wives who love the vacuum etc flush are not normally the ones who end taking them apart so tell them to keep their opinions to themselves unless they are qualified as a contortionist plumber.
Older boat clues.
Upholstery does not cost a fortune to replace. Even three year old upholstery that looks ok can start to fall apart with use if the sun has got to it.
Gelcoat can generally be bought back to a high level of finish regardless of how poor it looks.
Diesel engines that have an average of 20 hours a year on them are generally going to be a pain in the arse. Diesels with seawater around them like to be used. Have the oils tested to determine internal wear and ignore the hours.
Battery sets on a three year old can be just as fked as those on a 20 year old. You will never have enough batteries on board, just accept that fact or get a genny.
Engine room / bilges should be clean and not left unmaintained / swilling with rusty oily water.
Nav equipment is not as expensive as one may think if you just start afresh.
A boat that has a lot of alterations already carried out may not be in that good order electrically.
Check the ancilllary equipment. Good ropes / fenders / hooks / anchors / shore leads etc are worth money and show a previous owner that knows what they are about on board.
Reverse cycle air con / heating is so much more pleasant than an after market diesel heater regardless of the fancy digital control.
Icemaker and chest for me is more benefit than a built in fridge upstairs that can take 2 bottles of wine and one beer.
Magma Barbeques are just the best for on board cooking. As nice as it is having a galley downstairs would you have an alcantara ceiling in your home kitchen? If you want a griddle buy a George Foreman they are much cleaner once launched over the side after cooking.
Onboard generators are a real boon if you want to stay at anchor otherwise just buy an all in one camping gas cooker to heat a kettle.
Boats are always a compromise, new or old. For my money I would keep back money and alter my purchase to suit my needs.
And newer or older if you are going to use a boat hard keep an eye for whether that laquered table is really going to stand up to use or will you get pissed off that every time you hit a wave your phone slides off it and whacks the deck.
And I know I have said this to you but keep an open mind as to where the boat is. A cheap boat in Spain will not cost that much to get back and is fun in the process.
I am of course available for the trip back!
Does anyone know if Google translate will work on this post? Probably the first the first question you need to answer is whether you are happy to do some work on it or not. Obviously if you are happy / enjoy tinkering around you will get a lot more for your money.
The other one is to be totally honest with yourself as to whether you are an upgrader or not. If you want the latest all singing and dancing electronics there is no point paying for a toy that is already equipped with stuff you might rip out.
For my money I prefer a slightly older boat as I think generally boat design over the years have deteriorated into selling stuff internally at the expense of good hull design.
If youreally want to understand seakeeping ability at speed then have a look at offshore marathon racing. This year's Cowes - Torquay - Cowes yet again won by a forty year old Don Shead design albeit re-engined with the latest in propulsion technology. There is a reason they use these older designs.
As years have gone on the onus has become one of designing a powerboat hull around an interior rather than fitting an interior to an excellent hull design.
You will find yourself a lot more comfortable on board offshore sticking with one of the four. Sunseeker / Princess / Fairline / Sealine . For me personally in that order although each has it's up and down sides.
If you even look at an American boat expect to spill your G&T before you have left the berth let alone out at sea.
And if you look at an Italian effort expect it to be a lot lighter when you arrive back at the berth for all the bits that have fallen off on the journey.
A sunny will generally have a deeper vee than the other three which gives a softer ride through the thick stuff but will not be as stable at anchor with any side sea. It will also tend to heel more in a turn which is probably where Mick is coming from, having said that you can be a nob on the helm in any boat.
Sports versus fly is a matter of taste but also realise that a flybridge is also going to have a higher centre of gravity and they are not much fun in a beam sea. Personally I go out on the boat to be out in the open not shut in a lounge under a flybridge.
Shaft or drives again each has it's benefits. Shafts don't go aground with out a lot of damage, drives are higher maintenance. Drives tend to be a bit more efficient speed and fuel wise as you can trim the angle of attack. Shafts once you are used to them are better in close quarter maneuvers.
If you are really concerned about thrusters etc then I would politely suggest the better route would be to take some training rather than shelling out on something else to fall apart.
The most efficient form of toilet is a manual pump effort. Wives who love the vacuum etc flush are not normally the ones who end taking them apart so tell them to keep their opinions to themselves unless they are qualified as a contortionist plumber.
Older boat clues.
Upholstery does not cost a fortune to replace. Even three year old upholstery that looks ok can start to fall apart with use if the sun has got to it.
Gelcoat can generally be bought back to a high level of finish regardless of how poor it looks.
Diesel engines that have an average of 20 hours a year on them are generally going to be a pain in the arse. Diesels with seawater around them like to be used. Have the oils tested to determine internal wear and ignore the hours.
Battery sets on a three year old can be just as f
ked as those on a 20 year old. You will never have enough batteries on board, just accept that fact or get a genny.Engine room / bilges should be clean and not left unmaintained / swilling with rusty oily water.
Nav equipment is not as expensive as one may think if you just start afresh.
A boat that has a lot of alterations already carried out may not be in that good order electrically.
Check the ancilllary equipment. Good ropes / fenders / hooks / anchors / shore leads etc are worth money and show a previous owner that knows what they are about on board.
Reverse cycle air con / heating is so much more pleasant than an after market diesel heater regardless of the fancy digital control.
Icemaker and chest for me is more benefit than a built in fridge upstairs that can take 2 bottles of wine and one beer.
Magma Barbeques are just the best for on board cooking. As nice as it is having a galley downstairs would you have an alcantara ceiling in your home kitchen? If you want a griddle buy a George Foreman they are much cleaner once launched over the side after cooking.
Onboard generators are a real boon if you want to stay at anchor otherwise just buy an all in one camping gas cooker to heat a kettle.
Boats are always a compromise, new or old. For my money I would keep back money and alter my purchase to suit my needs.
And newer or older if you are going to use a boat hard keep an eye for whether that laquered table is really going to stand up to use or will you get pissed off that every time you hit a wave your phone slides off it and whacks the deck.
And I know I have said this to you but keep an open mind as to where the boat is. A cheap boat in Spain will not cost that much to get back and is fun in the process.
I am of course available for the trip back!
Bacardi said:
... just before he ran into the bank... which will no doubt sum up boating skills too...
OK, so I'm tempted with the idea of getting into this boating malarky and looking for some suggestions of what to look at, what's good, what's bad and things to be aware of etc. I'm sure there will be many opinions but know there are some experienced boating people on this forum, whose opinions I respect, so perhaps I can at least pick the bones out as to what to avoid.
What do I want to use the boat for? I hear you ask. A bolt hole and socialising. Initially for pottering around on in good weather, entertaining up to about 8-10 people. So I favour boats with bigger cockpits, wet bars, bbqs etc. I would also plan to occasionally sleep on board, so needs to have reasonably comfortable berths, galley and saloon. Initially it would be inland and coastal cruising, but longer term would look to cross channel, with sleeping accommodation for up to 5 people.
I'm thinking 35' would be about the minimum, but a bit cramped, so looking at 37'-40 something' would be more comfortable. I'm quite particular in how things look, so aesthetics are important, inside and out. I favour modern, sleek sports type boats and dislike classic motor boats (classic Riva launches, Fairey and the like accepted). I appreciate some of them them to a degree, but most look draughty, sit up and beg, with loads of wood to maintain and often somewhat chintzy (funnily enough, I'm the opposite when it comes to sail and love traditional wooden boats).
Following on from the recent Sealine SC35 thread I find some modern designs can also be 'boxy' and not to my liking. Even though mentioned that it may have been a good value boat with clever use of space etc. But I don't tend to be associated with the term 'value for money' and would rather pay more, relatively, for better quality. Life has also taught me that whenever I have 'saved money' and gone for the cheaper option, I'm never happy and end up paying more in the long run. As to my budget, a ball park £70-100k, possibly more depending on finance. (I'm well aware that running costs, berthing, insurance, maintenance etc. need to be taken into account, but that's not what I'm asking about in this thread).
Hopefully that is enough to purchase something half decent. I appreciate that depending on age, size condition, location etc. can have a large bearing on prices. Have to admit, as I trawl around broker's web sites, the yacht market etc. the range of boats and the price variation, even for the same model, can be utterly bewildering.
I guess the boats that look appealing to me are fairly obvious choices like the Fairline Targa range, up to a Sunseeker Camargue 44 (out of budget, unless I got lucky, but I like the layout), to give you an idea. As well as older farts like myself, I would also be having younger people as guests, who would lay about in the sun (think models in bikinis) or swim off the back.
Other questions I'm pondering are sports boat v flybridge. I appreciate there's more living space in a flybridge, but smaller outside space (with the smaller boats I'd be looking at), plus possibly more limited on inland waters due to bridges.
Another one is how much maintenance do stern drives require compared to shaft? I read Shaft is more reliable and easier to maintain. But I guess that would be a bit Hobson's choice depending on boat model.
Hull design. After having recently enjoyed a jolly on Mr M's Sunseeker (ta muchly), I was interested to learn that Sunseeker hulls can cope better than others in heavy seas. It's not my intention to go out in a force 8 but I know enough about the sea to know that things can change quickly.
I have thought about starting with something smaller, more of a day boat, but it seems that everyone who buys a boat, ends up selling it and buying a bigger one! So I thought it would make more sense to cut out that step, rather than be frustrated (if my numbers came up on the Euro lottery, I'd be straight out to buy a Princess V72, or the like!).
I should maybe add that although I'm new to boat ownership, I'm not a complete nautical numpty. Coming from a nautical family, in my youth I was very keen and learnt a lot about seamanship and coastal navigation etc. But, it has to be said, I'm somewhat rusty. However, I intend to do the day skipper and coastal skipper YHA courses, so as to keep my calls to the RNLI at a minimum!
So, with so many manufacturers with large ranges of models, maybe someone can suggest some less obvious names and models for me to investigate? All thoughts and suggestions gratefully received. I'll now brace myself for some pee taking from certain quarters...
Cheers
Paul
Paul, personally, may I say thank you for a well thought out, intelligent post. my boaty knowledge extends to no more than the frame of a Glen L Marine wooden boat that has been sitting in the garden for years and has never been finished. However, if you want, more than happy to try and put you into a boaty liking customer of mine. He is a fairly well know tv chap and could probably offer you some advice/suggestions. His new boat was moored up at Spanish GP and hosted a couple of the teams after the race. Perhaps too big for you but he started a bit smaller and knows his onions.OK, so I'm tempted with the idea of getting into this boating malarky and looking for some suggestions of what to look at, what's good, what's bad and things to be aware of etc. I'm sure there will be many opinions but know there are some experienced boating people on this forum, whose opinions I respect, so perhaps I can at least pick the bones out as to what to avoid.
What do I want to use the boat for? I hear you ask. A bolt hole and socialising. Initially for pottering around on in good weather, entertaining up to about 8-10 people. So I favour boats with bigger cockpits, wet bars, bbqs etc. I would also plan to occasionally sleep on board, so needs to have reasonably comfortable berths, galley and saloon. Initially it would be inland and coastal cruising, but longer term would look to cross channel, with sleeping accommodation for up to 5 people.
I'm thinking 35' would be about the minimum, but a bit cramped, so looking at 37'-40 something' would be more comfortable. I'm quite particular in how things look, so aesthetics are important, inside and out. I favour modern, sleek sports type boats and dislike classic motor boats (classic Riva launches, Fairey and the like accepted). I appreciate some of them them to a degree, but most look draughty, sit up and beg, with loads of wood to maintain and often somewhat chintzy (funnily enough, I'm the opposite when it comes to sail and love traditional wooden boats).
Following on from the recent Sealine SC35 thread I find some modern designs can also be 'boxy' and not to my liking. Even though mentioned that it may have been a good value boat with clever use of space etc. But I don't tend to be associated with the term 'value for money' and would rather pay more, relatively, for better quality. Life has also taught me that whenever I have 'saved money' and gone for the cheaper option, I'm never happy and end up paying more in the long run. As to my budget, a ball park £70-100k, possibly more depending on finance. (I'm well aware that running costs, berthing, insurance, maintenance etc. need to be taken into account, but that's not what I'm asking about in this thread).
Hopefully that is enough to purchase something half decent. I appreciate that depending on age, size condition, location etc. can have a large bearing on prices. Have to admit, as I trawl around broker's web sites, the yacht market etc. the range of boats and the price variation, even for the same model, can be utterly bewildering.
I guess the boats that look appealing to me are fairly obvious choices like the Fairline Targa range, up to a Sunseeker Camargue 44 (out of budget, unless I got lucky, but I like the layout), to give you an idea. As well as older farts like myself, I would also be having younger people as guests, who would lay about in the sun (think models in bikinis) or swim off the back.
Other questions I'm pondering are sports boat v flybridge. I appreciate there's more living space in a flybridge, but smaller outside space (with the smaller boats I'd be looking at), plus possibly more limited on inland waters due to bridges.
Another one is how much maintenance do stern drives require compared to shaft? I read Shaft is more reliable and easier to maintain. But I guess that would be a bit Hobson's choice depending on boat model.
Hull design. After having recently enjoyed a jolly on Mr M's Sunseeker (ta muchly), I was interested to learn that Sunseeker hulls can cope better than others in heavy seas. It's not my intention to go out in a force 8 but I know enough about the sea to know that things can change quickly.
I have thought about starting with something smaller, more of a day boat, but it seems that everyone who buys a boat, ends up selling it and buying a bigger one! So I thought it would make more sense to cut out that step, rather than be frustrated (if my numbers came up on the Euro lottery, I'd be straight out to buy a Princess V72, or the like!).
I should maybe add that although I'm new to boat ownership, I'm not a complete nautical numpty. Coming from a nautical family, in my youth I was very keen and learnt a lot about seamanship and coastal navigation etc. But, it has to be said, I'm somewhat rusty. However, I intend to do the day skipper and coastal skipper YHA courses, so as to keep my calls to the RNLI at a minimum!
So, with so many manufacturers with large ranges of models, maybe someone can suggest some less obvious names and models for me to investigate? All thoughts and suggestions gratefully received. I'll now brace myself for some pee taking from certain quarters...
Cheers
Paul
MOTORVATOR said:
mattdaniels said:
Does anyone know if Google translate will work on this post?
As Paul knows we start drinking quite early on board Fridays. He'll understand every word once he gets back from sinking a few beers tonight. 
mattdaniels said:
I need a boat even though I have no idea about them.
Left, right, hopefully not down. Engine. That's all there is to it really.mattdaniels said:
Are the "girls in bikinis diving off the back" in the optional extras section?
The trick is to *stop* them diving off the back when you get on board 
Moment I step aboard, hear a few sploshes, never see 'em again...Evenin'/Mornin' all. Yep, I'm trying my best to get three sheets to the wind
Thanks very much to all who replied, much appreciated!
. Plus, buying that loverly vessel would free up funds for a Red One (as long as I don't use it upside down)
Thanks KB for that very useful list of things to think about, just what I needed! 
I like the cut of your jib and most of that makes perfect sense (no babelfish translation needed!).
I've figured that I would need to spend a certain amount straight away, on things that you mentioned, like batteries (yep, was thinking genny), and that replacing upholstery would be not be expensive in the grand scheme of things. I also take on board (see what I did there), about the newer boats selling the accommodation/lifestyle before sea worthiness. I'm also with you with regard to spending time outside and would plan to spend most time topside, entertaining guests in fair weather. Having a nice big saloon on a fly, in one way is nice, but I don't really want a boat I can spend time inside, while I watch it rain! I'd also considered they may bob about at bit more, so I think it's sports for me. Already been to Magma site… and I had no idea Foreman grills floated!
Don't get me wrong, I love classic wooden sailing boats, with minimal comforts… not even an engine (maybe that's from reading Arthur Ransome as a kid), but, no, in this instance I want obscene vulgarity.
I'm in no hurry, as winter is coming, so have time for research. No doubt have many more questions.
Cheers!
Thanks very much to all who replied, much appreciated!
mickrick said:
Cool 
Downstairs in all the bedrooms?
No, just in the lounge/kitchen area…. next to the toilet… remind me, what's the pointy end called again? Downstairs in all the bedrooms? Simpo Two said:
You know the bikini-girl Monaco thing is all a wild fantasy so having considered all options I think this may be more suitable:
I guess I could just about squeeze a couple of models on the roof. Bikini clad models are an occupational hazard for me. I thought I could use the boat as a prop for work . Plus, buying that loverly vessel would free up funds for a Red One (as long as I don't use it upside down) MOTORVATOR said:
Ha, knew you'd succumb.
I'm a dead duck! Thanks KB for that very useful list of things to think about, just what I needed! I like the cut of your jib and most of that makes perfect sense (no babelfish translation needed!).
I've figured that I would need to spend a certain amount straight away, on things that you mentioned, like batteries (yep, was thinking genny), and that replacing upholstery would be not be expensive in the grand scheme of things. I also take on board (see what I did there), about the newer boats selling the accommodation/lifestyle before sea worthiness. I'm also with you with regard to spending time outside and would plan to spend most time topside, entertaining guests in fair weather. Having a nice big saloon on a fly, in one way is nice, but I don't really want a boat I can spend time inside, while I watch it rain! I'd also considered they may bob about at bit more, so I think it's sports for me. Already been to Magma site… and I had no idea Foreman grills floated!
MOTORVATOR said:
I am of course available for the trip back!
I'm counting on you! mickrick said:
I know you like the boats that look like the Sydney opera house,
mickrick said:
but you can't tell me this isn't sweet, surely?
I'll agree it has a certain charm, but not one that I'm looking for. It's the sort of thing I had in mind when I said 'sit up and beg, draughty, with loads of wood to maintain'. I don't know, it's kinda liberal democrat, if I had said I wanted a sherry palace, wore Arron cardigans, and drove a Morris traveller whilst wearing string back driving gloves, it would be a contender!Don't get me wrong, I love classic wooden sailing boats, with minimal comforts… not even an engine (maybe that's from reading Arthur Ransome as a kid), but, no, in this instance I want obscene vulgarity.
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
Surely a little research in the magazines until January and you can go tyre fender kicking at the London Boat show to at least step aboard all different types, styles and manner of boats ?
I did go a couple of years ago and will again. But it's waaay different looking at a boat on a stand. As mentioned, unless my numbers come up, I'm looking at an older boat, so value opinions from the real world.TVR1 said:
Paul, personally, may I say thank you for a well thought out, intelligent post.
That is exceedingly kind of you to say! (unless of course you're taking the Michael), I'm not usually known for intelligence! It's always nice to get different opinions, so may take you up on your offer.I'm in no hurry, as winter is coming, so have time for research. No doubt have many more questions.
Cheers!
Edited by Bacardi on Saturday 29th October 00:53
mattdaniels said:
MOTORVATOR said:
mattdaniels said:
Does anyone know if Google translate will work on this post?
As Paul knows we start drinking quite early on board Fridays. He'll understand every word once he gets back from sinking a few beers tonight. Paul is adamant that he will hire in from some Asian country to save any complications.
I of course rely on plenty of time on the boat keeping my body honed and tanned to attract the passing trade. If this is unsuccessful (mostly) then Burnham on Crouch is always handy to pick up the odd slapper as long as you can look past the additional digits etc. "Diving off the back" is normally in their underwear as they try to get away.
Mossy preferred to have his wife along although she recently dropped a rope overboard into his propellers, I suspect he may be reviewing his current arrangements.
Simpo on the other hand, preferring to cruise muddy ponds, seems to rely on passing bovines to prettify his surroundings. We have been concerned that he may start posting in the cross species sex thread but so far he has kept it to himself.
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
TVR1 said:
Paul, personally, may I say thank you for a well thought out, intelligent post. my boaty knowledge extends to no more than the frame of a Glen L Marine wooden boat that has been sitting in the garden for years and has never been finished. However, if you want, more than happy to try and put you into a boaty liking customer of mine. He is a fairly well know tv chap and could probably offer you some advice/suggestions. His new boat was moored up at Spanish GP and hosted a couple of the teams after the race. Perhaps too big for you but he started a bit smaller and knows his onions.
top Willy waving Rolleyes, I meant !!!!
Just offering a suggestion that the OP may like to chat to a fellow boater. Not my bag but what can I do if I happen to know a couple of rich muthaf
kas who like that sort of thing.Pistonheads is about helping each other out if we can, is it not?
Edited by TVR1 on Saturday 29th October 00:57
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