Discussion
Hi all, I've been boating for years with my family and think it's time I stopped stealing theirs and got my own.
I've had a look about and have some in mind but I'm open to suggestions!
Budget: about £4k. Preferably less. £3.5k would be ideal. Don't mind looking at £5k boats in the hope that either a bargain or a desperate seller comes along. I'm aware I'm at the lower end of the market so I'm expecting to need to do some sprucing up.
Size: I'd like to sleep 4. Preferably all in the main cabin, but I won't immediately discount 2+2. Looking at 19-23 ft. I definitely prefer 7ft+ beam though not ruling anything out at this stage. I like the "v birth + table folding down to double arrangements". But again, in my price range I can't be too fussy.
Type of boating: Norfolk broads. Maybe with the occasional (2-3 times a year) jaunt out to sea in very good weather. Gt Yarmouth-Lowestoft hops I'd imagine.
You know the drill, get a couple of mates on board, take off for the weekend type thing. Like floaty camping. Hence wanting a fair bit of accommodation.
Condition: Minter would be lovely. Being realistic I accept that's not going to happen. Don't mind doing some work, but don't want a restoration job. Something that needs a good clean, service, new carpets, tarting up I don't mind. "Recommissioning" I guess.
When: looking to buy in about a month. Moving house at the moment so that's taking priority.
Engine: Probably predictable, but in order of preference: Diesel -> 4stroke outboard -> 2stroke outboard -> inboard petrol
So far I've looked at:
Shetland 4+2 - Out of my price range, which is a shame as they seem ideal.
Seamaster 23 - Similar. I've seen one or 2 nearer 4k but I think I'd end up with a real basket case at that money.
Shetland 610 - really strong contender. I'd like a good look round one
Freeman 22 - Nice. Not particularly modern, which I don't mind but the inboard petrol Anglia motor is a bit of a turn off. Not a deal-breaker though at the right price.
Teal/Weston/Nelson 20 - I like the "open plan" nature of the aftcabin/wheelhouse, but they're a bit narrow. Also, prefer the "pram-type" canopies
Hardy 18 - Answers the "sea boat" question perfectly, but I'd like more accommodation
Hardy 20 - too pricey
Mayland 18 - Too small
Birchwood 22 - A little expensive but seem really good. Like the 610, If one came around at a good price I'd be seriously interested.
Shetland 570 and 535 - See Mayland 18.
Sorry for the rambling post, any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Dan
I've had a look about and have some in mind but I'm open to suggestions!
Budget: about £4k. Preferably less. £3.5k would be ideal. Don't mind looking at £5k boats in the hope that either a bargain or a desperate seller comes along. I'm aware I'm at the lower end of the market so I'm expecting to need to do some sprucing up.
Size: I'd like to sleep 4. Preferably all in the main cabin, but I won't immediately discount 2+2. Looking at 19-23 ft. I definitely prefer 7ft+ beam though not ruling anything out at this stage. I like the "v birth + table folding down to double arrangements". But again, in my price range I can't be too fussy.
Type of boating: Norfolk broads. Maybe with the occasional (2-3 times a year) jaunt out to sea in very good weather. Gt Yarmouth-Lowestoft hops I'd imagine.
You know the drill, get a couple of mates on board, take off for the weekend type thing. Like floaty camping. Hence wanting a fair bit of accommodation.
Condition: Minter would be lovely. Being realistic I accept that's not going to happen. Don't mind doing some work, but don't want a restoration job. Something that needs a good clean, service, new carpets, tarting up I don't mind. "Recommissioning" I guess.
When: looking to buy in about a month. Moving house at the moment so that's taking priority.
Engine: Probably predictable, but in order of preference: Diesel -> 4stroke outboard -> 2stroke outboard -> inboard petrol
So far I've looked at:
Shetland 4+2 - Out of my price range, which is a shame as they seem ideal.
Seamaster 23 - Similar. I've seen one or 2 nearer 4k but I think I'd end up with a real basket case at that money.
Shetland 610 - really strong contender. I'd like a good look round one
Freeman 22 - Nice. Not particularly modern, which I don't mind but the inboard petrol Anglia motor is a bit of a turn off. Not a deal-breaker though at the right price.
Teal/Weston/Nelson 20 - I like the "open plan" nature of the aftcabin/wheelhouse, but they're a bit narrow. Also, prefer the "pram-type" canopies
Hardy 18 - Answers the "sea boat" question perfectly, but I'd like more accommodation
Hardy 20 - too pricey
Mayland 18 - Too small
Birchwood 22 - A little expensive but seem really good. Like the 610, If one came around at a good price I'd be seriously interested.
Shetland 570 and 535 - See Mayland 18.
Sorry for the rambling post, any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Dan
MOTORVATOR said:
Although it has to be said we have a Freeman owner on here who is, how can I put this.... Odd.
Not sure if it's a general Freeman thing or just him of course.
Go stick your head up a dead bear's bum!Not sure if it's a general Freeman thing or just him of course.
This is my 23 with new hood:
And this is why we like them - mahogany veneer inside and out:
Freemans are perhaps the boating equivalent of an MG - big following, good forum you can get answers on, a place to get specialist parts from etc etc.
That said you'll be struggling to get one for £4K - it will either be an average 22Mk1 (not many about) or a very rough 22Mk2. You mentioned the engine as a minus side, but there is ample support for all the bits and plenty of advice/knowledge. Some are now being re-engined with small modern diesels and about 10% were fitted with Perkins diesels from new. Petrol engines are quieter but BSS rules stop you from having a gas fridge.
Edited by Simpo Two on Thursday 21st July 00:26
Simpo Two said:
MOTORVATOR said:
Although it has to be said we have a Freeman owner on here who is, how can I put this.... Odd.
Not sure if it's a general Freeman thing or just him of course.
Go stick your head up a dead bear's bum!Not sure if it's a general Freeman thing or just him of course.
But out of that list above I would go Birchwood, Freeman, Seamaster if you are serious about four grown adults sleeping on board.
As our learned friend says though you will be struggling to find a good example for the money you are talking about.
Boats like this are actually better value at the good example end as you will undoubtably be spending money on it day one, and as I'm sure Simpo will confirm you will not recover what you spend on new hoods, gel shield, roof repairs etc etc. Find one that someone has spent all the money on and you will not be returning him anything like the real cost of getting that boat up to par.
The trick is to find one that needs some cheap hard graft like polishing, varnishing and cleaning but nothing in the way of specialist fittings or machinery and also well equipped with fenders, ropes, anchors, VHF, etc which will run up a huge bill in comparison to the initial boat cost.
And petrol is not the demon fuel some make it out to be. I've seen people argue that the extra 5 grand for a diesel is worth it for fuel economy when realistically their whole years fuel bill would be in the very low hundreds anyway. Just keep the ventilation and fuel system tidy and they are no more dangerous than going out in your car.
MOTORVATOR said:
But out of that list above I would go Birchwood, Freeman, Seamaster if you are serious about four grown adults sleeping on board.
Elysian might be worth a look too. A friend has two boats - he likes his Freeman 26 best but his centre cockpit Elysian 27 has better accommodation for his family. (If you want a centre cockpit Freeman you have to go up to 30' and they cost about £20K)MOTORVATOR said:
Boats like this are actually better value at the good example end as you will undoubtably be spending money on it day one, and as I'm sure Simpo will confirm you will not recover what you spend on new hoods, gel shield, roof repairs etc etc.
As someone said, it's not a case of 'can you afford to use it?' but 'can you afford NOT to use it?' Purchase aside, the cost of a mooring in Tesco Value Marina, licence fee, insurance is over £1K a year and could be much more depending on where you keep it. Every year or two you'll be expected to have it lifted out for winter for antifould and checkover - more cost. As I learned, boats are not like cars; you can't just park them up and leave them. Owning one is very different from simply hiring one and driving it about a bit.MOTORVATOR said:
The trick is to find one that needs some cheap hard graft like polishing, varnishing and cleaning but nothing in the way of specialist fittings or machinery and also well equipped with fenders, ropes, anchors, VHF, etc which will run up a huge bill in comparison to the initial boat cost.
I wouldn't worry about fenders and ropes, but when buying a considerably second-hand boat, don't expect it to be anything like new or perfect. Various owners over the years will have added bits, taken bits off, bodged bits etc. Boats are much more like houses than cars. So the trick is to find the boat closest to what you want, and as M says, make sure that the bits it hasn't got are cheap to add. Many people get a survey done before buying - allow £300 plus slipway fees for this. One good thing about shopping in the 22-24 foot range is that many costs are based per foot - so you won't be paying nearly as much as M does for his 70 metre gin palace 
MOTORVATOR said:
And petrol is not the demon fuel some make it out to be. I've seen people argue that the extra 5 grand for a diesel is worth it for fuel economy when realistically their whole years fuel bill would be in the very low hundreds anyway. Just keep the ventilation and fuel system tidy and they are no more dangerous than going out in your car.
Yes, far too much fuss is made about safety these days. Just be sensible and keep it from sinking or blowing up. Apart from not being able to have a gas fridge, the thing I find oddest about petrol is that from inside the boat it sounds more like a car (but with a fruity 'straight-through' exhaust!).NB Having looked at my fave broker I think you'll be struggling to fit the bill for £4K; four adults will be very squashed whatever you get. I know I quote them a lot but it's a nice clear website with lots of info: www.jonesboatyard.co.uk/boat-sales/boats-for-sale-...
Edited by Simpo Two on Thursday 21st July 10:16
Out of your list I would probably go for the Birchwood.
It will be difficult to get one within your price range although there are some about if you are prepared to do the miles, but it will need work!
http://birchwood.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id...
In the price range... (sort of)
It will be difficult to get one within your price range although there are some about if you are prepared to do the miles, but it will need work!
http://birchwood.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id...
In the price range... (sort of)
m0ssy said:
Out of your list I would probably go for the Birchwood.
It will be difficult to get one within your price range although there are some about if you are prepared to do the miles, but it will need work!
http://birchwood.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id...
In the price range... (sort of)
Yup saw that one. Near me too so I might have a look.It will be difficult to get one within your price range although there are some about if you are prepared to do the miles, but it will need work!
http://birchwood.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id...
In the price range... (sort of)
Accepting that it may have been painted for a reason, what's the best way to get paint off a fibreglass superstructure without damaging the gelcoat? Not a fan of painted GRP really.
Leaning towards a Freeman too. To those that have Mk1s: how do you find the front cabin? Looks like it might be a bit claustrophobic with those windows.
Prefer the Mk2 in that respect, but actually prefer the flat deck of the earlier ones.
Yes, yes, beggars can't be choosers, etc.
crofty1984 said:
Accepting that it may have been painted for a reason, what's the best way to get paint off a fibreglass superstructure without damaging the gelcoat? Not a fan of painted GRP really.
It's usually done to cover up poor gelcoat and yes, unless it's done extremely well it's a turn off. Not sure how to remove but I expect anything is possible. Note that DIY work on boats is much harder than it is at home, for various reasons. crofty1984 said:
Leaning towards a Freeman too. To those that have Mk1s: how do you find the front cabin? Looks like it might be a bit claustrophobic with those windows.
My father had a 22Mk1 and when I was student, myself and a couple of other six-footers spent a weekend on it without any problems (though I'd want a bit more space and elbow room now). People do talk about the low front cabin, but if you think about it, what do you do in it? Yep, sleep - horizontally. It's like a snow cave... it also gives the boat a distinctive look - it was pretty much the first GRP cruiser.Good Mk1s are rare and very good ones can go for up to £6K!
You've probably seen this one but the accommodation looks ok and its on budget.
Says its had a recent refit. Looks tidy.
http://www.jonesboatyard.co.uk/boat-sales/freeman-...
Says its had a recent refit. Looks tidy.
http://www.jonesboatyard.co.uk/boat-sales/freeman-...
Mm, we were kicking that over on the Freeman Forum... it looks in decent nick (though you can never tell from photos, you have to see them) - the big thing is that it's had headlinings added (not original, reduce headroom, why?) and the cockpit has been clad in what appears to be padded vinyl. Now if you like padded vinyl that's fine, but again you wonder 'why?'. So maybe it's been rain-damaged at some time and the wood was wrecked, dunno.
However, the main thing is that no two boats are the same - you have to get your shoes on and go and see some. After the first dozen or so you'll find out what to look for, what you like, what you hate and what you can live with. Then when the right boat comes along you'll know, and you'll be able tell you it's been well looked after. Jones is a good place to go because all the boats for sale are lined up in one place; you can get the keys and go and mosey round at your leisure. Brokers generally don't 'big up' boats like car salesmen, and the guys who run it know their stuff. So, even if you don't know what you want yet, go and see some candidates. One thing - brokers generally don't allow test drives, just an engine run.
However, the main thing is that no two boats are the same - you have to get your shoes on and go and see some. After the first dozen or so you'll find out what to look for, what you like, what you hate and what you can live with. Then when the right boat comes along you'll know, and you'll be able tell you it's been well looked after. Jones is a good place to go because all the boats for sale are lined up in one place; you can get the keys and go and mosey round at your leisure. Brokers generally don't 'big up' boats like car salesmen, and the guys who run it know their stuff. So, even if you don't know what you want yet, go and see some candidates. One thing - brokers generally don't allow test drives, just an engine run.
crofty1984 said:
Yup saw that one. Near me too so I might have a look.
Accepting that it may have been painted for a reason, what's the best way to get paint off a fibreglass superstructure without damaging the gelcoat? Not a fan of painted GRP really.
If it's proper paint (2 Part) then take a DA sander to it, if it's cheap crap then interstrip or similar will have it off.Accepting that it may have been painted for a reason, what's the best way to get paint off a fibreglass superstructure without damaging the gelcoat? Not a fan of painted GRP really.
Nothing really wrong with painted Gelcoat and in fact I defy most people at the boatshow to know the difference or get it the right way round. Sunseeker and the rest all offer painted boats from new and the finish is mostly better than gel.
http://www.paulhoskinsltd.com/holder.html
GreatGranny said:
You've probably seen this one but the accommodation looks ok and its on budget.
Says its had a recent refit. Looks tidy.
http://www.jonesboatyard.co.uk/boat-sales/freeman-...
I was on that very boat earlier today. FWIW the cabin was pretty nicely done out, better than it looks in the pictures. I was worried that they'd lost the character of these boats with a modern fit out. The cockpit was a bit, well. We all have different tastes, but IMO it's been ruined. Like simpo said, it's the beautiful wood fit out that makes a Freeman, and it's been covered in (slightly too) padded vinyl. Also at the front of the canopy it was screwed to the top of the windscreen. It was cheap though. Says its had a recent refit. Looks tidy.
http://www.jonesboatyard.co.uk/boat-sales/freeman-...
Saw one for a little more in better nick, and one for the same price in good condition (for the end of the market) that needed the gearbos adjusting/replacing.
ALso saw a hardy 18 that had been left to the elments and needed a lot of work (but it was very, very cheap) a shetland family 4 that opened the "Maybe consider an 18ft boat" can of worms again.
Make sure the Engine is good buy a good engine first and the boat hull second.You can always tidy a hull and interior but Engines will cost you dearly. I had an old hull and bought a new Tohatsu 50 hp you just want to be able to turn the key and go without the need to resort to praying.
Well done Crofty for putting 'Plan A' into action
Just for reference here's what a really smart Mk 1 looks like (I saw the photos last year and saved them in my 'ideas' folder!). The original cockpit flooring would have been grey but this has been modded rather well:
Somehow navy blue is the only colour that really works. Weird.
Just for reference here's what a really smart Mk 1 looks like (I saw the photos last year and saved them in my 'ideas' folder!). The original cockpit flooring would have been grey but this has been modded rather well:
Somehow navy blue is the only colour that really works. Weird.
Edited by Simpo Two on Friday 22 July 22:12
Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff