Discussion
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-239...
Good idea a modern icebreaker to patrol our assets {
} in the South Atlantic and around Antarctica.
Good idea a modern icebreaker to patrol our assets {
} in the South Atlantic and around Antarctica.As far as my limited knowledge goes in the royal navy, I dont think she is there to defend the Falklands, there are numerous other assets, land air and sea based to deter an attack.
Anyone know the location of all the astute(I think) class subs?
Seems to me that she is going to do oceanic survey?
Anyone know the location of all the astute(I think) class subs?
Seems to me that she is going to do oceanic survey?
As far as my limited knowledge goes in the royal navy, I dont think she is there to defend the Falklands, there are numerous other assets, land air and sea based to deter an attack.
Anyone know the location of all the astute(I think) class subs?
Seems to me that she is going to do oceanic survey?
Anyone know the location of all the astute(I think) class subs?
Seems to me that she is going to do oceanic survey?
Ross1988 said:
Anyone know the location of all the astute(I think) class subs?
That's sort of the point...[quote]
Seems to me that she is going to do oceanic survey?
What she's there for is not to be a warship, but to enable fast movement of troops and equipment around the Falklands and South Georgia. We've got plenty of air assets on the Falklands now, so a helicopter isn't so much of an issue.
Bearing in mind that it was either this or go without anything at all down there for a few years while they decide what to do with Endurance this is probably a pretty good option. As it turns out, Endurance was also a chartered Norwegian icebreaker to start with.
davepoth said:
No, we know what's down there. Lots and lots of oil.
What she's there for is not to be a warship, but to enable fast movement of troops and equipment around the Falklands and South Georgia. We've got plenty of air assets on the Falklands now, so a helicopter isn't so much of an issue.
Bearing in mind that it was either this or go without anything at all down there for a few years while they decide what to do with Endurance this is probably a pretty good option. As it turns out, Endurance was also a chartered Norwegian icebreaker to start with.
Actually Endurance did a lot of survey work - shifting ice sheets and icebergs meant she was surveying many areas for the first time every year. She also supported scientific research on South Georgia and the Antartic, particularly with British Antartic Survey. Those were probably more relevant than any role in the active defence of the Falklands.What she's there for is not to be a warship, but to enable fast movement of troops and equipment around the Falklands and South Georgia. We've got plenty of air assets on the Falklands now, so a helicopter isn't so much of an issue.
Bearing in mind that it was either this or go without anything at all down there for a few years while they decide what to do with Endurance this is probably a pretty good option. As it turns out, Endurance was also a chartered Norwegian icebreaker to start with.
Endurance's helicopters were extensively involved in supporting scientific bases as well as landing teams on otherwise inaccessible icebergs. Not sure about the Lynx but certainly when Endurance had Wasps both had to be serviceable or neither flew - in case one was required to rescue the occupants of the other. Then there's the potential for Signals Intelligence work and general Defence Diplomacy with South America and the various international Antartic bases to monitor the situation in the South Atlantic.
ninja-lewis said:
Actually Endurance did a lot of survey work - shifting ice sheets and icebergs meant she was surveying many areas for the first time every year. She also supported scientific research on South Georgia and the Antartic, particularly with British Antartic Survey. Those were probably more relevant than any role in the active defence of the Falklands.
Endurance's helicopters were extensively involved in supporting scientific bases as well as landing teams on otherwise inaccessible icebergs. Not sure about the Lynx but certainly when Endurance had Wasps both had to be serviceable or neither flew - in case one was required to rescue the occupants of the other. Then there's the potential for Signals Intelligence work and general Defence Diplomacy with South America and the various international Antartic bases to monitor the situation in the South Atlantic.
Consider me schooled. Endurance's helicopters were extensively involved in supporting scientific bases as well as landing teams on otherwise inaccessible icebergs. Not sure about the Lynx but certainly when Endurance had Wasps both had to be serviceable or neither flew - in case one was required to rescue the occupants of the other. Then there's the potential for Signals Intelligence work and general Defence Diplomacy with South America and the various international Antartic bases to monitor the situation in the South Atlantic.
Love the phrase "defence diplomacy". Is that because Endurance didn't count as a gunboat?
davepoth said:
No, we know what's down there. Lots and lots of oil.
What she's there for is not to be a warship, but to enable fast movement of troops and equipment around the Falklands and South Georgia. We've got plenty of air assets on the Falklands now, so a helicopter isn't so much of an issue.
Bearing in mind that it was either this or go without anything at all down there for a few years while they decide what to do with Endurance this is probably a pretty good option. As it turns out, Endurance was also a chartered Norwegian icebreaker to start with.
That's what I was getting at Dave, why would they invade the Falklands when we could destroy Argentinas already old and delapadated fleet before it even reaches there.What she's there for is not to be a warship, but to enable fast movement of troops and equipment around the Falklands and South Georgia. We've got plenty of air assets on the Falklands now, so a helicopter isn't so much of an issue.
Bearing in mind that it was either this or go without anything at all down there for a few years while they decide what to do with Endurance this is probably a pretty good option. As it turns out, Endurance was also a chartered Norwegian icebreaker to start with.
linked article said:
The ship has also undergone a refit involving the repositioning of the flight deck from the bridge roof to the stern, the installation of a multi-beam echo sounder survey system, an overhaul of the main engines and gearboxes and the addition of naval insignia.
This suggests it will in fact be doing survey work, as does thislinked article said:
It will carry out all the functions of an Antarctic patrol ship involving close links with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, the UK Hydrographic Office and the British Antarctic Survey.
You are of course correct, there is load of oil down there, but maybe we want to find more.On a side note, do we do this mapping for free? or just personal gain? Or do we flog the maps to other ships etc?
Ross1988 said:
That's what I was getting at Dave, why would they invade the Falklands when we could destroy Argentinas already old and delapadated fleet before it even reaches there.
We could have done so in 1982, but for various reasons didn't. IIRC the old Endurance was being withdrawn, from which the Argies inferred we didn't really care what happened down there.As before, it just needs an Argentina looking for nationalist kudos and a GB with its eye off the ball. The latter is certainly true; fortunately Argentina is not sabre-ratttling at present.
Simpo Two said:
We could have done so in 1982, but for various reasons didn't. IIRC the old Endurance was being withdrawn, from which the Argies inferred we didn't really care what happened down there.
As before, it just needs an Argentina looking for nationalist kudos and a GB with its eye off the ball. The latter is certainly true; fortunately Argentina is not sabre-ratttling at present.
As before, it just needs an Argentina looking for nationalist kudos and a GB with its eye off the ball. The latter is certainly true; fortunately Argentina is not sabre-ratttling at present.
"Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner, Argentina's president, is using her refusal to appoint an ambassador to Britain as a demonstration of her hardline on the Falkland Islands, a key plank of her platform for election in October."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southame...
They will ALWAYS BE AT IT.
IMO the BIG danger is a Latin America coalition of countries deciding to form military and political alliances for "the greater good" as it were.
OK so you're closer to Argentinian politics than me, well done. No need for the sarky rolleyes though is it? It is offensive and unecessary.
So, we are bankrupt, slashing defence and playing with what we have in the Middle East. Argentina is going to attack the Falklands in a fit of nationalism...
If both is true we'd better evacuate the islands now. I hope the residents get priority over the trash that is currently queueing up to get in.
So, we are bankrupt, slashing defence and playing with what we have in the Middle East. Argentina is going to attack the Falklands in a fit of nationalism...
If both is true we'd better evacuate the islands now. I hope the residents get priority over the trash that is currently queueing up to get in.
Edited by Simpo Two on Tuesday 31st May 23:24
I would suggest that the biggie in 1982 was the tacit admission by HMG that we didn't have an SSN in the S. Atlantic, and the fact that she was in Dry Dock at Gibraltar.
I always thought that rather strange because, up till then, as well as after, it was Policy not to comment upon the whereabouts of HM Boats.
I always thought that rather strange because, up till then, as well as after, it was Policy not to comment upon the whereabouts of HM Boats.
Ross1988 said:
You are of course correct, there is load of oil down there, but maybe we want to find more.
On a side note, do we do this mapping for free? or just personal gain? Or do we flog the maps to other ships etc?
Maps? Charts, dear boy.....On a side note, do we do this mapping for free? or just personal gain? Or do we flog the maps to other ships etc?
The RN supplies chart data to the UK Hydrographic Office, which is responsible for the publication of Admiralty charts, used by many seafarers the world over. So, we do it for personal gain and for making a few coppers by selling charts to yachties.
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
I would suggest that the biggie in 1982 was the tacit admission by HMG that we didn't have an SSN in the S. Atlantic, and the fact that she was in Dry Dock at Gibraltar.
I always thought that rather strange because, up till then, as well as after, it was Policy not to comment upon the whereabouts of HM Boats.
Wasn't there a huge round of defense cuts by us just prior?I always thought that rather strange because, up till then, as well as after, it was Policy not to comment upon the whereabouts of HM Boats.
Something was withdrawn; I thought it was Endurance but stand to be corrected. Anyway, the Argies got the impression that they could help themselves and we'd do nothing.
We only just got them back that time, largely thanks to Argentine conscripts giving up; I have no idea how we'd do it again.
And just to lighten the mood, here's one from the time:
'General Galtieri reviewed his air force today. From a glass-bottomed boat!'
We only just got them back that time, largely thanks to Argentine conscripts giving up; I have no idea how we'd do it again.
And just to lighten the mood, here's one from the time:
'General Galtieri reviewed his air force today. From a glass-bottomed boat!'
Edited by Simpo Two on Tuesday 31st May 23:34
Simpo Two said:
Something was withdrawn; I thought it was Endurance but stand to be corrected. Anyway, the Argies got the impression that they could help themselves and we'd do nothing.
We only just got them back that time, largely thanks to Argentine conscripts giving up; I have no idea how we'd do it again.
I don't think the Argies would be up to it, but if they were, don't we have a much greater presence in the Falklands? We only just got them back that time, largely thanks to Argentine conscripts giving up; I have no idea how we'd do it again.
With the Type 45 (are they fully operational yet?) would we need fixed wing CAP?
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