Breitling Prices !

[stimmers]

Firstly apologies for a crap question but i have no real interest in watches and know nothing about them.

Im thinking of getting my Father a Breitling watch. e's taledabout getting one for sometime and ended up buying a fake i Thailand for about £10. I honestly have no iea why he doesn't just go out and buy one.

Anyway, could someone give me a rough idea of prices or the curren models. Don't want anything really big an would probably not want a metal strap.

Would really appreciate it

Thanks

[Piersman2]

Sorry, I was just going to move on passed this question and ignore it, but then decided I had to come back and at least make some attempt to give a reasonable answer.

Use google FFS !!!

Why come on and ask a dumb question about how much watches might cost without even doing the most rudimentary search with Google. The prices are not a secret!

[Exigeowner]

Not really sure where that kinda reply comes from

Entry level I would think is between about £ 1500 to £ 2000 but I think some of the watches in that bracket would look far nicer than entry level Tags which may be only around the £ 500.00 mark.

£ 3000 to £ 3500 would get you a very decent model, You shouldnt be able to find a price list on the net, at least not from authorised dealers, although some of the online companies ( not AD ) will have a guide on prices.

There is always the used market to consider.

[stimmers]

Piersman2 said:

Sorry, I was just going to move on passed this question and ignore it, but then decided I had to come back and at least make some attempt to give a reasonable answer.

Use google FFS !!!

Why come on and ask a dumb question about how much watches might cost without even doing the most rudimentary search with Google. The prices are not a secret!

What a complete tool you are

[stimmers]

Exigeowner said:

Not really sure where that kinda reply comes from

Entry level I would think is between about £ 1500 to £ 2000 but I think some of the watches in that bracket would look far nicer than entry level Tags which may be only around the £ 500.00 mark.

£ 3000 to £ 3500 would get you a very decent model, You shouldnt be able to find a price list on the net, at least not from authorised dealers, although some of the online companies ( not AD ) will have a guide on prices.

There is always the used market to consider.

Thanks very much, thats exactly what i was looking for and is very helpful

[Dominic H]

Yes, very helpful Piers.....

To the OP, Breitling UK on 0207 636 5200 speak to sales and get them to send you the '08 catalogue and latest price list. The prices went up on May 1 2008, I don't know if the latest price list is published. Get the catalogue and call sales for latest prices.

Breitling do not allow AD's to sell on the net, and any published RRP's by online delaers should be checked with Breitling UK for accuracy.

Hope this helps....

Dom.

[stimmers]

Dominic H said:

Yes, very helpful Piers.....

To the OP, Breitling UK on 0207 636 5200 speak to sales and get them to send you the '08 catalogue and latest price list. The prices went up on May 1 2008, I don't know if the latest price list is published. Get the catalogue and call sales for latest prices.

Breitling do not allow AD's to sell on the net, and any published RRP's by online delaers should be checked with Breitling UK for accuracy.

Hope this helps....

Dom.

Thanks Dom. I had looked online but was nervous about buying something at a 'good price' and not getting a genuine watch. I would be unable to tell a real one from a fake if im honest which makes this process hard unless i simply go direct to a high street jewlers and pay their prices.

Thanks for the tips !!!

[cyberface]

TBH since Breitlings are just ETA movements in fancy cases with little in the way of bespoke engineering, the top quality fakes (i.e. using identical ETA movements and identical copy cases, etc.) with a genuine strap will be indistinguishable from the real thing. Even by most watchmakers.

Breitling may have successful marketing but their prices are shocking for what they actually are.

;)

[Exigeowner]

You can try www.watches.co.uk several Breitlings have come online today.

While on the subject of watches.co.uk and Breitlings whats the view on the Chrono Colt Quartz listed there today, seems a bit of a bargin to me an unworn secondhand Breitling for £ 795.00 good buy ?

[stimmers]

Thanks Guys

[Piersman2]

In restrospect, maybe I was a bit out of order.

Apologies.

[S6 Devil]

Exigeowner said:

You can try www.watches.co.uk several Breitlings have come online today.

While on the subject of watches.co.uk and Breitlings whats the view on the Chrono Colt Quartz listed there today, seems a bit of a bargin to me an unworn secondhand Breitling for £ 795.00 good buy ?

I had a colt chrono quartz for a couple of years and loved it, however remember it's a midsize watch at 38mm inc crown. I sold my mint 2006 blue faced colt for £700. You can get them much cheaper on ebay.

Edited by S6 Devil on Wednesday 18th June 17:26

[Dr JonboyG]

Exigeowner said:

You can try www.watches.co.uk several Breitlings have come online today.

While on the subject of watches.co.uk and Breitlings whats the view on the Chrono Colt Quartz listed there today, seems a bit of a bargin to me an unworn secondhand Breitling for £ 795.00 good buy ?

I wear one as my day to day watch as it won't get broken in the lab. They're not huge, but they're very well made and not super ugly like a lot of Breitling's current lineup.

[wazza]

Don't buy a new Breitling unless you can secure a sizeable discount off list price.

I had a brand new Crosswind Special Edition Limitee which retailed at nearly £4k. As hard as I tried, £1800 was the best price I could get for it 12 months later.

Luckily I secured a 40 percent discount when purchased new.The authorised dealer had the watch in stock for a while and was happy to deal.

[stimmers]

So is it worth buying a 2nd hand watch from a good dealer then? I think there is a watch dealer in the Burlington Arcade in London.

Anyone know if its reputable ???

[G20RG B]

cyberface said:

TBH since Breitlings are just ETA movements in fancy cases with little in the way of bespoke engineering, the top quality fakes (i.e. using identical ETA movements and identical copy cases, etc.) with a genuine strap will be indistinguishable from the real thing. Even by most watchmakers.

Breitling may have successful marketing but their prices are shocking for what they actually are.

;)

Intresting comment, can you explain ETA movement please,and what do you base your knowlege of Breitling on.

[Dr JonboyG]

G20RG B said:

cyberface said:

TBH since Breitlings are just ETA movements in fancy cases with little in the way of bespoke engineering, the top quality fakes (i.e. using identical ETA movements and identical copy cases, etc.) with a genuine strap will be indistinguishable from the real thing. Even by most watchmakers.

Breitling may have successful marketing but their prices are shocking for what they actually are.

;)

Intresting comment, can you explain ETA movement please,and what do you base your knowlege of Breitling on.

Is a 3 second google search really that hard? It's not like it's some big secret, a lot of watch companies buy in their movements.

Edited by Dr JonboyG on Thursday 19th June 23:10

Edited by Dr JonboyG on Thursday 19th June 23:10

[G20RG B]

Dr JonboyG said:

G20RG B said:

cyberface said:

TBH since Breitlings are just ETA movements in fancy cases with little in the way of bespoke engineering, the top quality fakes (i.e. using identical ETA movements and identical copy cases, etc.) with a genuine strap will be indistinguishable from the real thing. Even by most watchmakers.

Breitling may have successful marketing but their prices are shocking for what they actually are.

;)

Intresting comment, can you explain ETA movement please,and what do you base your knowlege of Breitling on.

Is a 3 second google search really that hard? It's not like it's some big secret, a lot of watch companies buy in their movements.

Edited by Dr JonboyG on Thursday 19th June 23:10

Edited by Dr JonboyG on Thursday 19th June 23:10

Since when was it a crime to ask a Question!!!
As it's a discussion forum should I have to go out of PH and Google everytime I want to know something!!

Oh I also see you had to edit your simple reply TWICE!!cleaver boy eh...

[cyberface]

G20RG B said:

Since when was it a crime to ask a Question!!!
As it's a discussion forum should I have to go out of PH and Google everytime I want to know something!!

Oh I also see you had to edit your simple reply TWICE!!cleaver boy eh...

No need for the flames, and if you're going to flame someone then 'cleaver boy' is a new one for me - what is it? Some butcher's insult?

Anyway given your original question was pointed at me, here are the answers (though it would have taken you VERY little time to find out, either by searching this board (as recommended before posting in the Usage Guidelines) or by Googling - but you've said that you're unwilling to save bandwidth by doing your own research first, so ho hum..)

ETA is the name of a Swiss conglomerate that make blank watch movements. These are the bits inside a mechanical watch that make it tick, and (hopefully) tell the time.

In order to make a watch, all you need is a case (metal or plastic will do, I'm not aware of any wood or stone cases but it'd make a great project) which is big enough for the movement to fit in, and can have opened either side. A hole on the thin side of the case is essential for the crown (winder). You'll need to have some way of opening the back of the watch, often just a snap-off back, but sports and waterproof watches have screw-on backs. This is to allow the watchmaker to service the watch - all mechanical mechanisms require lubrication from time to time. The front of the case is where the user looks to see the time. The top of the movement where the hands can be attached doesn't have any markings from ETA - hence 'blank movement' - nor does it come supplied with hands, IIRC. Therefore you need to make a thin insert with numbers or markers or cutouts for the date windows or whatever you desire - this is the 'dial' of the watch. You can make this out of anything - plastic, enamel, porcelain, carbon fibre, metal, as long as it either looks pretty or utilitarian you're sorted. Then you need to attach some hands to the movement, which should avoid fouling the dial. To make a working watch, you then push the winding crown and its stalk through the hole in the side of your case and into the movement itself, wind up the mainspring a bit and off you go!
The final touch is the dial protector, which is usually a bit of glass that sits over the dial so you can read the time but not break the watch. These are known as 'crystals' and are either acrylic (perspex), mineral glass or sapphire crystal, in order of resistance to scratching. That gives you a watch - you can then drill a couple of holes in each lug and attach a leather / rubber / NATO strap with spring bars, or build a metal bracelet.

There - your very own watch. As you can somewhat guess, all the real cost in this is in the R&D, build and materials for the movement. The movement uses very fine parts, which are costly to manufacture (compared to a forged metal case, or a leather strap, or a glass crystal). Some of the movement components are exotic materials - synthetic rubies are used for pallet stone 'bearings' to reduce friction, and better movements will have synthetic ruby bearings in more positions on the watch where a shaft rotates in a bearing. The mainspring has to hold a large (for its size) amount of energy and also be resistant to corrosion or magnetic fields, and also avoid 'binding' coils. It normally uses a special alloy to achieve this - this costs a lot in R&D and then finally the metallurgy costs. Same deal with the balance spring - this is a hair's breadth spring that rotates back and forth a lot - any interference in that spring by magnetic fields or shock will put the watch rate out of whack... sophisticated anti-shock and antimagnetic alloys have been developed for this part of the watch.
On top of that, every part needs to be strong enough to keep working for 20+ years... yet so light that the mainspring doesn't have to be enormous to provide enough torque to power the whole drive mechanism, which may contain a bunch of complications (as in ETA's 7750, which has a chronograph / stopwatch mechanism built in).

Now ETA ate up most of the medium and large movement makers in the consolidation period (70s / 80s IIRC) when the Swiss watch industry was under serious attack from more accurate, cheaper, quartz watches. Mechanical movements became completely uneconomic to build compared to the cheap-as-chips but dead accurate quartz watches. Answer? Consolidate for economy of scale, and push your product upmarket. The Swiss therefore got into marketing in a big way (Rolex are one of the marketing success stories in history. They, incidentally, make their own movements). All the smaller movements and parts makers got eaten up by ETA, who now own the market for third party blank movements. The only other people making their own movements (Rolex, JLC, Patek, Breguet, Blancpain, Vacheron, Lange, and a load of really small boutiques / ateliers like Richard Mille) keep themselves to themselves - their movements don't get sold to anyone else. It's the only reason for their high price - an in-house, bespoke movement.

Now do you see where I'm coming from? The ETA range of movements is like Ford's range of engines. You pay, you receive a crate engine. In the case of a watch, the actual cost and R&D of components you need to *finish* the watch once you've got the movement is very small. A case with transparent front and removable back, a dial, some hands, a crown piece, a strap or bracelet. And that inexpensive, due to mass production and the economy of scale, movement - from ETA.

That is ALL YOU NEED to claim you are selling a 'Swiss Watch' which, due to the Swiss watch industry only being able to survive on marketing and snobbery, since their product is inferior at telling the time, is what many of these companies aim for. Most of the 'sling an ETA in it and do our own fancy case and sell at $2000' merchants are simple rip-offs. That's all I'm trying to say.

Don't get me wrong - I love watches. Due to the lack of accuracy compared to modern quartz, many mechanical watches are used as jewellery - where the movement is the cheapest part in the watch (which is shocking). Fair enough, I can understand that. Some watches trade off an illustrious association with some historical feat that makes the watches desirable - more marketing, but more credible marketing IMO - such as Omega, whose watch survived the Moon, Rolex, whose special sea dweller prototype survived the Mariana Trench, and were often used by military types (the Bond / spy / submariner thing - again clever marketing), Panerai came from nowhere due to the originals being Italian Navy issue (but not sold to civilians) so the current watches have no history, essentially (Anomino may have more if more of the original makers left Panerai to work at Anonimo). Hell, even I've bought into that 'military association' thing by owning a CWC manual chronograph which was allegedly RAF issue in the 60s.

My poke at Breitling is to do with the exorbitant cost of their watches when they are made from very plain components and IMO not at a high enough quality to justify their cost. All automatic Breitlings use ETA movements - the chronographs usually use 7750s or variants (7751, 7753, 7754, 7758). Breitling also make an extensive range of Quartz watches which immediately puts them down a peg in prestige terms, and even in this case, they made a big fuss about their temperature compensated quartz 'SuperQuartz' models being 30 times the accuracy of normal quartz. Correct, but it was ETA who invented it, and it's called the ETA Thermoline range of movements.

The thing that winds me up about Breitling is the cheesy advertising with random celebrities who choose to fly for fun, as loads of wealthy enthusiasts on PH do as well - and then back it up with some crap like 'one does simply not become an aviation supplier by chance' which HAS to be read in the most pompous pseudo-upper-class accent possible. There is simply no need to resort to such affectations Breitling *were* appointed as watch supplier to the British and American air forces for a decade or so and they used to make flight-deck instruments. So Breitling *do* have a history worth marketing. It's just that the other companies that sold watches to the armed forces aren't in the 'top brands' area that Breitling want to be in. And as we all know, government and military buy on price. So if you were to list the watch brands that the Royal Air Force has used as standard issue since the 2nd world war, it'd be entertaining to see what company Breitling keeps.

Look, the comment was made because there is nothing special about a Breitling watch. Originally, at the very start of the company, in-house R&D was performed, but Breitling haven't made an in-house movement or a useful in-house complication in decades. As a result, given they use base ETA, easily-obtained, cheap movements - making a replica of a Breitling is profoundly easy to modern Chinese copyists. I don't condone such behaviour, but what makes Breitling justified to charge £2000+ on a watch you can get a 1:1 copy of for £300? And when I say 1:1 copy, I'm talking a copy that a Breitling AD couldn't tell the difference between, and would accept 'official' Breitling parts when it needs repair. It's the *same* watch.

Remember ETA outsource their movement production to China too... they claim that the movements made in China are only for Chinese consumption, and the movements made in Switzerland are for the rest of the world.... but that doesn't make economic sense. Any base-ETA mechanical watch (i.e. with no special complications or decoration) *may* have its ETA movement sourced from China. Just like the replicas... Now - do you really think that flashy Navitimer is really worth £2000 of hand-built bespoke 'Breitling-only' technology?

Not wishing to start a flame war here, but I guess it's a matter of opinion as to why you spend your money. For me there has to be value, and I see no value in jewellery, which is where I may clash with some on here. I see value in unique / clever engineering (in-house movements, clever complications) and will pay large for that. I see value in superb design and quality for something you have to *wear* (some complicated watches are simply too big for a normal wrist, say hello Franck Muller Aeternitas Mega 4) - but these design-watches tend to be quartz and 'trendy design student type', I like them but I won't pay more than £100. Other watches I like - tool watches that have got a bit of a reputation. I own an Orange Monster for this (especially because it's got a bespoke in-house movement, all parts made and designed in-house, like Pateks.....). I'm also interested in the state of the replica market, purely because I love Swiss mechanical watches and too many of the brands are not doing enough to make their products special enough to prevent easy replication from the copyists in China. Rolex would be worthless without their bespoke movements. If Rolex used ETA then the brand would be bust by now. A few ETA-only high-profile brands are in danger of getting identical replicas sold in bulk - Breitling is one of them. They NEED to do something to ensure a genuine watch can be identified easily - otherwise why buy them? Breitling are expensive, but if you can buy a replica for £300 that is identical and may only just be identified by a watchmaker with a big loupe once you've dismantled the watch, then most buyers may consider the cheaper option. It's the same watch, after all, made from the same bits and the same materials.

I don't want Breitling to be seen as 'yeah, probably a fake' like many people see Submariners these days (because the fakes are so good). I don't want to see the Swiss industry go down the pan because of it - or worse - the Swiss industry retreat to Patek-land where only the *extremely* wealthy can join in.

Bit of a big post but last comment - I see no reason for anyone to purchase a quartz Breitling watch other than branding. And I consider most people who spend way over the odds on something just to have a brand name emblazoned on their apparel as fairly vulgar IMO.

[Trax]

But it was a great answer. If only he had put all that rather than getting his knickers in a twist, he would get 10 out of ten, instead he can settle for nine.

I still love my Brietling Colt though.