Near misses - the thread of self control
Discussion
If you're like me you spend a fair bit of time looking at 'for sale' fora, Chrono24, ebay and when really desperate even etsy. Maybe you went to the highstreet & tried something on.
Sometimes there are watches you almost buy. They're in budget, you can afford 'em, you want to own them, but for some reason you don't open your wallet.
Post them here so we can see what you turned down & why.
Here are two from this weekend to kick the thread off:
This Le Coultre Club fits my general theme of collecting 60's & 70's watches. I'm a bit of a fan of JLC too. It was on ebay and went for £576. I didn't bid.
It's a 'Club', so it has an Adolph Schild (AS) movement rather than a JLC in house one. It's gorgeous, but not as gorgeous as a non Club watch.
Another ebay watch. The Longines ultronic range are hummers, this one has the ETA 9162. It looks pretty mint.
I was sorely tempted earlier this year by one of these that Jarrett Harkness was selling at Unwindintime. I think it was $800 + shipping from the States + VAT. This one went for a bargain basement £217.
The reason I didn't buy, well I had a watch delivered on Sunday. Ordering another one on Sunday night would not have exactly contributed to marital bliss. I think I would have been sleeping in the shed for a while and currently my shed doesn't have a roof, or walls, or even a concrete base!
What have you recently seen, desired and failed to buy?
EDIT: Looks like ebay have blocked direct links to their photos. Post edited to reinsert pics.
Sometimes there are watches you almost buy. They're in budget, you can afford 'em, you want to own them, but for some reason you don't open your wallet.
Post them here so we can see what you turned down & why.
Here are two from this weekend to kick the thread off:
This Le Coultre Club fits my general theme of collecting 60's & 70's watches. I'm a bit of a fan of JLC too. It was on ebay and went for £576. I didn't bid.
It's a 'Club', so it has an Adolph Schild (AS) movement rather than a JLC in house one. It's gorgeous, but not as gorgeous as a non Club watch.
Another ebay watch. The Longines ultronic range are hummers, this one has the ETA 9162. It looks pretty mint.
I was sorely tempted earlier this year by one of these that Jarrett Harkness was selling at Unwindintime. I think it was $800 + shipping from the States + VAT. This one went for a bargain basement £217.
The reason I didn't buy, well I had a watch delivered on Sunday. Ordering another one on Sunday night would not have exactly contributed to marital bliss. I think I would have been sleeping in the shed for a while and currently my shed doesn't have a roof, or walls, or even a concrete base!
What have you recently seen, desired and failed to buy?
EDIT: Looks like ebay have blocked direct links to their photos. Post edited to reinsert pics.
Edited by BrokenSkunk on Friday 21st October 15:07
Easy.
The Tissot PRX automatic. I know I should love it as the styling is right up my street and it gets a lot of love on review sites, but I just can't get over how unimpressed I am with it in the flesh, it just looks and feels cheap. I must have tried one on half a dozen times in the last four months, but I can't convince myself.
The Tissot PRX automatic. I know I should love it as the styling is right up my street and it gets a lot of love on review sites, but I just can't get over how unimpressed I am with it in the flesh, it just looks and feels cheap. I must have tried one on half a dozen times in the last four months, but I can't convince myself.
Most of the Tudor range... I really want to like them - they look good in ads and get rave reviews but they feel chunky/clunky in real life.
I had a North Flag which was okay, once it was repaired as it had the sticking date issue. Moved it on after a couple of years. I think that also may've coloured my view of the brand.
I had a North Flag which was okay, once it was repaired as it had the sticking date issue. Moved it on after a couple of years. I think that also may've coloured my view of the brand.
Tudor Pelagos FXD. Wanted one for ages, was on waiting lists for ages. I got a call from an AD it had come into stock for me and I decided after a bit of going backwards and forwards I didn't want it anymore.
I've come close to buying a G-Shock mud master 2-3 times as well, added it to baskets online but never gone through with it
I've come close to buying a G-Shock mud master 2-3 times as well, added it to baskets online but never gone through with it
LordGrover said:
Most of the Tudor range... I really want to like them - they look good in ads and get rave reviews but they feel chunky/clunky in real life.
I had a North Flag which was okay, once it was repaired as it had the sticking date issue. Moved it on after a couple of years. I think that also may've coloured my view of the brand.
Agree with this. I've come so close to a Pelagos, Black Bay and the Chrono. But i'm always a little underwhelmed by them. I had a North Flag which was okay, once it was repaired as it had the sticking date issue. Moved it on after a couple of years. I think that also may've coloured my view of the brand.
BrokenSkunk said:
I mean, just look at the hour markers! I need one of these:
I do not need to pay 900 Euros + VAT for it. (Also see my opener about sleeping in the hole in the ground where my shed will eventually be built. Yes, I am a coward.)
I have to hand it to you, you have exquisite taste in watches. Gems like this that fly under the radar are the mark of a true enthusiast. Keep it stealthy!I do not need to pay 900 Euros + VAT for it. (Also see my opener about sleeping in the hole in the ground where my shed will eventually be built. Yes, I am a coward.)
Oh...and buy that one, or I just might...
Have come close a couple of times on this:
https://montawatch.com/products/monta-noble-blue-d...
Great, simple looking, American small brand and have nothing but good things about the quality and finish of them.
Think the VAT/Duty puts me off.
https://montawatch.com/products/monta-noble-blue-d...
Great, simple looking, American small brand and have nothing but good things about the quality and finish of them.
Think the VAT/Duty puts me off.
White Gold Daytona Panda, proper one on a leather strap, unworn.
Was for sale in Belgium but the price was so good I was going to drive over. Wife piped up she had a funny feeling, reckoned she was pregnant.
She was right n’all.
I wouldn’t mind prices going up but collectors have cottoned on to them now and they rarely come up.
Was for sale in Belgium but the price was so good I was going to drive over. Wife piped up she had a funny feeling, reckoned she was pregnant.
She was right n’all.
I wouldn’t mind prices going up but collectors have cottoned on to them now and they rarely come up.
Did this with a trilogy edition Speedmaster a few years back. Bought the Seamaster in Geneva & loved it.
After much searching, happened across one in Omega London. Loved it but had the chance to get a 1959 re-edition 806 Navitimer so hesitated. Missed out on the Speedy & have kicked myself since.
After much searching, happened across one in Omega London. Loved it but had the chance to get a 1959 re-edition 806 Navitimer so hesitated. Missed out on the Speedy & have kicked myself since.
smokey mow said:
This 1962 Omega caught my eye on eBay a couple of months ago. I was bidding but for a combination of reasons missed out and have regretted it since.
Yes it’s got the wrong strap and hands but I liked the classic style and it would have made a good every day watch.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but Yes it’s got the wrong strap and hands but I liked the classic style and it would have made a good every day watch.
The dial is also wrong. Really, badly Mumbai monster wrong. The crown doesn't look right either. Aesthetically it's not ugly, I'll give you that, it is well photographed, but it screams Bombay bodge job. I suspect that the movement will have been knackered, probably cobbled together from multiple non runners.
I'm really not trying to widdle on your roaring inferno, but that's a shocker. I think you had a narrow escape. In the spirit of making sure you don't nearly make the same mistake again, send me a link to it on ebay and I'll give some pointers of what to look for.
On the other hand you may already know all that & I'm just being anal about the watch not being original! Annecdotally I have heard that some of the Bombay specials do actually keep ticking beyond the first week. No idea what their timekeeping is like though"
redrabbit said:
I have to hand it to you, you have exquisite taste in watches. Gems like this that fly under the radar are the mark of a true enthusiast. Keep it stealthy!
Oh...and buy that one, or I just might...
Why thank you Mr Rabbit. That's extremely generous.Oh...and buy that one, or I just might...
I seek these out partly because of necessity. The price of modern watches is higher than this forgotten vintage stuff. I try to keep this collecting malarky at a fairly low spend level, my monthly average spend is about the same as a tank of petrol. All things are relative & I'm lucky to be able to waste even that much. If I were buying new, or used modern that would get me one decent watch every year instead of *cough* several.
The other part is because this old stuff is so cool.
Knock yourself out on this one (I think it's over priced by a couple of hundred UKP and the VAT will be a killer.):
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274559786496
Be aware, it has a tuning fork movement. Getting it serviced will be a nightmare.
Smokey has sent me the link to the ebay listing for this watch. I won't post it here as that would breah PH's name and shame rules.
OK, Let me start by saying I'm not an Omega expert.
There's quite a lot missing from the listing. There are no photographs of the caseback or the movement. I'll come to why that's important in a minute (or ten, this is a long post). But let's look at what is there.
This is about the best image of the watch. What's wrong with it?
1/ Hands are wrong. Smokey knew this already. Mercedes hands do not belong on a dress watch.
2/ "Deluxe" on the dial. I was once told that any watch stating Deluxe on the dial isn't. I've never seen this on an original Omega.
3/ "Omega" Even I can tell the font is wrong. I couldn't tell you exactly why, but it looks off.
4/ Quality of the dial printing. Easiest seen on "SW ISS MADE" The edges of the lettering are awful, they should be clean and crisp. Not blurred like these.
5/ Number "6" is wonky.
6/ It has a fresh looking black dial. Always be suspiscious of strong dark dial colours, they're great for hiding the grotty old original dial paint.
7/ "No. 529" Omega do not place theirmodel case reference numer on the dial. Ever.
8/ "12" doesn't look centrally placed with respect to the minute markers either side or the cross hairs.
9/ Lume colour on the dial looks to me like it matches the lume on those obviously replaced hands (but I'm really colourblind). We know the hands shouldn't be there, so we'd expect the lume ont he hands not to match the dial lume.
Things that are OK with this dial:
10/ Lume dots. Usually hand painted on redials, the placement accuracy and repeatability of size are often a dead giveaway. These are OK.
11/ Crosshairs look nicely lined up with the centre of the dial.
OK, now let's look at the seller's text. There's a lot of verbiage, but he does tell us some useful things. He tells us that the case refernce is 208.529, the movement is a Omega 286, the case is 9ct solid gold & the serial number dates the watch to 1962.
Let's decode the case reference. This is usually stamped inside the caseback by the way.
Relevant information is here: https://c1861.blogspot.com/2011/08/omega-case-refe... Assuming the website's accurate...
2 - Leather strap
0 - Manual winding (not automatic)
8 - Chronometer grade movement
Oooh, chronometer grade. You'd think the seller would mention that. It's a big selling point.
The 529 in 208.529 is the model number. OK, let's check the Omega database and see what it should look like:
https://www.omegawatches.com/vintage-watches
Nope, I can't find a 208.529 using the search, but no matter the database isn't complete or 100% accurate.
Searching for 208 brings up 5 watches, 529 just two. Nothing matches.
Let's search by caliber number instead. There are multiple options: "284/85/86", "285/286" & "286" they all have to be checked individually... Nothing matches.
Right last chance. Search by movement type.
Manual winding - 11 watches, nothing matches.
Manual winding (mechanical) - 712 watches nothing matches.
Manual winfing (chronometer) - 5 watches, nothing matches.
There are lots of gaps in the database, so this isn't conclusive. I tried to spot a dial with these exact hourmarkers and numerals, I couldn't find one. There very likely is an Omega dial under that nasty paint.
This watch is solid gold, so we don't need to worry about brassing. Brassing is where the gold plate wears off to show the brass underneath, usually on the lugs. Be very wary of pictures that don't clearly show a lack of brassing on plated watches. Not a problem here.
The lack of any visible scratches & crisp edges on the case do tell us that it's been polished. You may or may not care, to a collector this devalues the watch.
For fun, let's look up the movement. It would be a useful check if the seller had posted a picture.
http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&...
286 does have a breguet hairspring, so that ties with the watch being chronometer grade. Dr. Roland Ranfft think's it was manufactured from 1963 to 1966 though, not 1962 as this watch claims to be. Ranfft could be wrong, movement caliber and serial number are both stamped on the base plate. A picture would have told us.
Last checks for this watch:
Picture of the inside caseback. Missing. This should show Omega reference number & will often have marks scratched in by a watchmaker each time it was serviced.
Picture of the watch back. Missing. Assume that's because the watch has a personal inscription that the seller has 'forgotten' to mention.
Picture of the movement. Missing.
Here we'd be looking for a even colour on all the gold coloured parts. If you spot a bridge that's a different colour it means it's from a donor movement. Immediately you should be suspiscious that the movement has been bodged together from several non runners.
Look at the steel parts for evidence of rust. Reject the watch if you see any.
Look at the screws, are they clean, or have they been mullered by an ape wielding a chisel? Some witness marks from the careful use of a screwdriver is fine - tells you that the watch has been serviced. Chewed screw heads tell you who by.
[edit]Is the regulator hard against the stops (watch desperately needs a service, or nicely half way between Fast and Slow?
Is the anti-shock spring on the balance staff missing?
Are there missing screws? Do all the screws match?[end edit]
Look at the case / caseback seal. Youre looking for corrosion, caused by sweat. There won't be any on this 9ct gold watch.
These two pictures are absolutely essential. My advice is (almost) never buy without seeing them. The exception is for front loaders (e.g. Omega Dynamic / Cosmic). On these watches to get to the movement, you need to remove the crystal. The seller may not have the tools.
And finally, think holistically. Does the whole package match? Terrible corrosion around the caseback seal, dial damage and rust on the movement? It's knackered, but it's honest. But if you see the corrosion and a perfect dial, you know it's been tarted up for sale.
I said last checks. There is one more thing to do. It's an ebay seller. Let's look at his other items and see how honest looking they are. Is the guy a collector selling up, or a serial bodger...
OK, Let me start by saying I'm not an Omega expert.
There's quite a lot missing from the listing. There are no photographs of the caseback or the movement. I'll come to why that's important in a minute (or ten, this is a long post). But let's look at what is there.
This is about the best image of the watch. What's wrong with it?
1/ Hands are wrong. Smokey knew this already. Mercedes hands do not belong on a dress watch.
2/ "Deluxe" on the dial. I was once told that any watch stating Deluxe on the dial isn't. I've never seen this on an original Omega.
3/ "Omega" Even I can tell the font is wrong. I couldn't tell you exactly why, but it looks off.
4/ Quality of the dial printing. Easiest seen on "SW ISS MADE" The edges of the lettering are awful, they should be clean and crisp. Not blurred like these.
5/ Number "6" is wonky.
6/ It has a fresh looking black dial. Always be suspiscious of strong dark dial colours, they're great for hiding the grotty old original dial paint.
7/ "No. 529" Omega do not place their
8/ "12" doesn't look centrally placed with respect to the minute markers either side or the cross hairs.
9/ Lume colour on the dial looks to me like it matches the lume on those obviously replaced hands (but I'm really colourblind). We know the hands shouldn't be there, so we'd expect the lume ont he hands not to match the dial lume.
Things that are OK with this dial:
10/ Lume dots. Usually hand painted on redials, the placement accuracy and repeatability of size are often a dead giveaway. These are OK.
11/ Crosshairs look nicely lined up with the centre of the dial.
OK, now let's look at the seller's text. There's a lot of verbiage, but he does tell us some useful things. He tells us that the case refernce is 208.529, the movement is a Omega 286, the case is 9ct solid gold & the serial number dates the watch to 1962.
Let's decode the case reference. This is usually stamped inside the caseback by the way.
Relevant information is here: https://c1861.blogspot.com/2011/08/omega-case-refe... Assuming the website's accurate...
2 - Leather strap
0 - Manual winding (not automatic)
8 - Chronometer grade movement
Oooh, chronometer grade. You'd think the seller would mention that. It's a big selling point.
The 529 in 208.529 is the model number. OK, let's check the Omega database and see what it should look like:
https://www.omegawatches.com/vintage-watches
Nope, I can't find a 208.529 using the search, but no matter the database isn't complete or 100% accurate.
Searching for 208 brings up 5 watches, 529 just two. Nothing matches.
Let's search by caliber number instead. There are multiple options: "284/85/86", "285/286" & "286" they all have to be checked individually... Nothing matches.
Right last chance. Search by movement type.
Manual winding - 11 watches, nothing matches.
Manual winding (mechanical) - 712 watches nothing matches.
Manual winfing (chronometer) - 5 watches, nothing matches.
There are lots of gaps in the database, so this isn't conclusive. I tried to spot a dial with these exact hourmarkers and numerals, I couldn't find one. There very likely is an Omega dial under that nasty paint.
This watch is solid gold, so we don't need to worry about brassing. Brassing is where the gold plate wears off to show the brass underneath, usually on the lugs. Be very wary of pictures that don't clearly show a lack of brassing on plated watches. Not a problem here.
The lack of any visible scratches & crisp edges on the case do tell us that it's been polished. You may or may not care, to a collector this devalues the watch.
For fun, let's look up the movement. It would be a useful check if the seller had posted a picture.
http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&...
286 does have a breguet hairspring, so that ties with the watch being chronometer grade. Dr. Roland Ranfft think's it was manufactured from 1963 to 1966 though, not 1962 as this watch claims to be. Ranfft could be wrong, movement caliber and serial number are both stamped on the base plate. A picture would have told us.
Last checks for this watch:
Picture of the inside caseback. Missing. This should show Omega reference number & will often have marks scratched in by a watchmaker each time it was serviced.
Picture of the watch back. Missing. Assume that's because the watch has a personal inscription that the seller has 'forgotten' to mention.
Picture of the movement. Missing.
Here we'd be looking for a even colour on all the gold coloured parts. If you spot a bridge that's a different colour it means it's from a donor movement. Immediately you should be suspiscious that the movement has been bodged together from several non runners.
Look at the steel parts for evidence of rust. Reject the watch if you see any.
Look at the screws, are they clean, or have they been mullered by an ape wielding a chisel? Some witness marks from the careful use of a screwdriver is fine - tells you that the watch has been serviced. Chewed screw heads tell you who by.
[edit]Is the regulator hard against the stops (watch desperately needs a service, or nicely half way between Fast and Slow?
Is the anti-shock spring on the balance staff missing?
Are there missing screws? Do all the screws match?[end edit]
Look at the case / caseback seal. Youre looking for corrosion, caused by sweat. There won't be any on this 9ct gold watch.
These two pictures are absolutely essential. My advice is (almost) never buy without seeing them. The exception is for front loaders (e.g. Omega Dynamic / Cosmic). On these watches to get to the movement, you need to remove the crystal. The seller may not have the tools.
And finally, think holistically. Does the whole package match? Terrible corrosion around the caseback seal, dial damage and rust on the movement? It's knackered, but it's honest. But if you see the corrosion and a perfect dial, you know it's been tarted up for sale.
I said last checks. There is one more thing to do. It's an ebay seller. Let's look at his other items and see how honest looking they are. Is the guy a collector selling up, or a serial bodger...
Edited by BrokenSkunk on Friday 12th August 13:01
Edited by BrokenSkunk on Friday 12th August 17:24
Edited by BrokenSkunk on Friday 21st October 15:13
Portofino said:
Had wanted an IWC Portugieser for ages, went & tried it on & it felt ordinary & for whatever reason just didn’t do it for me. Glad I tried it on rather than just online buying.
I had a Portuguese chrono that was stolen in 2016; been meaning to replace for a while now, and then IWC updated them to have a new movement and glass case back- now pretty much perfect, and I've found a couple online at (what I think is) a decent price. But I can't bring myself to buy it- lots of other more important (family) things to blow the money on. I already have a couple of nice watches anyway, so it won't get worn so much. I'll need a lot more encouragement from the wife to actually buy it...Oh, and I've wanted a Junghans Mac Bill Chronoscope on the Milanese bracelet for a few years now too. Again, not something I absolutely need... The same goes for replacing our 2 cars (although money is also an issue here!), despite the 'want' being very high!
Edited by Whitean3 on Friday 12th August 12:48
Whitean3 said:
Oh, and I've wanted a Junghans Max Bill Chronoscope on the Milanese bracelet for a few years now too.
Yup, the Max Bill is/was on my list too, but it has recently been trumped by the Meister (which I think looks better in the metal. But... both need to be on a good alligator strap, imho, and they don't get anything close to decent quality as OEM fitment, despite being a £2k watch. Hence I have found it fairly easy to resist, despite trying on several times in Selfridges...Edited by Whitean3 on Friday 12th August 12:48
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