Discussion
The thread is probably a few years to early but i've already started to think about my next car, having only just got my 250Cup Megane...nothing against the Megane as it is the greatest Hot Hatch ever built...but, after having seen a Camaro V8 in person last year at LeMans and the silver cop car in Hawaii 5-0, i'm definitely wondering if it'd be something within my reach in 3-4 years time?
The one i'd be looking at is a V8 and so i'm just wondering on what sort of prices a V8 Camaro goes for today, that's a few years old, and running costs and also whether it'd mean driving a LHD US import. Also, how easy are they to live with driving round British roads?
edit: One thing i have been warned about with the Camaros and other American cars is the build quality tends to not be as good as European/Japanese cars, is this something that i do need to be very wary of?
The one i'd be looking at is a V8 and so i'm just wondering on what sort of prices a V8 Camaro goes for today, that's a few years old, and running costs and also whether it'd mean driving a LHD US import. Also, how easy are they to live with driving round British roads?
edit: One thing i have been warned about with the Camaros and other American cars is the build quality tends to not be as good as European/Japanese cars, is this something that i do need to be very wary of?
Edited by Regiment on Thursday 28th April 13:12
Regiment said:
The thread is probably a few years to early but i've already started to think about my next car, having only just got my 250Cup Megane...nothing against the Megane as it is the greatest Hot Hatch ever built...but, after having seen a Camaro V8 in person last year at LeMans and the silver cop car in Hawaii 5-0, i'm definitely wondering if it'd be something within my reach in 3-4 years time?
The one i'd be looking at is a V8 and so i'm just wondering on what sort of prices a V8 Camaro goes for today, that's a few years old, and running costs and also whether it'd mean driving a LHD US import. Also, how easy are they to live with driving round British roads?
edit: One thing i have been warned about with the Camaros and other American cars is the build quality tends to not be as good as European/Japanese cars, is this something that i do need to be very wary of?
(1) American muscle cars depreciate slowly. You can buy a 2005 Mustang V8 now for about £14k (one up on PH right now)so expect a similar rate of depreciation for the Camaro dependent on spec and rarity because Mustangs really flooded the market from 2005-on when the dollar was 2 to the £. Nowadays it's more to import so the prices start higher and there are less to buy so even though Mustang depreciation is glacial, the camaro may yet be even slower.The one i'd be looking at is a V8 and so i'm just wondering on what sort of prices a V8 Camaro goes for today, that's a few years old, and running costs and also whether it'd mean driving a LHD US import. Also, how easy are they to live with driving round British roads?
edit: One thing i have been warned about with the Camaros and other American cars is the build quality tends to not be as good as European/Japanese cars, is this something that i do need to be very wary of?
(2) They will probably all be LHD but look at it this way, an import costs £205 a year to tax and a pukka UK car will be over £400.
(3) The Chevy engine is a very simple pushrod and you can service it yourself with a fork and one hand tied behind your back. they are immensely reliable. I had a 4th gen for 4 years and it was faultless bar an EGR valve which they subsequently deleted.
(4) Petrol-wise, they will do between 20 and 35 depending on how long/short the journey is and your pussy-footing ability vs inability to stop your foot stomping on the gas.
(5) your main difficulty is likely to be age and LHD experience. As a result of many Mustangs biting the hedge, premiums have gone up and many companies are now refusing to insure cars under 7 years old or without 2 years LHD experience. Some also insist on alarms and trackers which are inferior to the stock alarm. Age is always an issue.
(6) Certainly with the Mustang, the car shrinks about you and it has good visibility and a higher driving position. I haven't driven a new Camaro but tests criticise the pill-box vision which may mean it is harder to divine the peripheral limits. However, LHD will be an issue at toll booths and width is an issue in many car parks if you actually want to get out as the doors are long.
(7) You might be better building up to anew camaro from an older Yank to get the LHD experience whether via a classic or a 4th gen Camaro (1998-2002 for the LS1 motors)with reasonable insurance. Once the 2005-on Mustangs hit 7 years old they will also be more insurable though modifications will jeopardise that if you wanted to boost one to 500hp for example.
(8) Build quality is an odd concept. The materials may be lower rent than many European car AT THE TOP END OF THE RANGE but comparable to the majority. What they lack in tactility they more than make up for in durability and toughness and I can pretty much guarantee it will still be round when most German cars are in the crusher. Being simple electronics you don't get duff motors or such like and the car will function perfectly usually throughout its life without fear of a wallet raping.
(9) Parts are easy to import yourself though can hurt in the shipping costs department but there are places like www.rockauto.com who provide a great service and there are individuals who ship crates in regularly and give a preferential rate for bigger parts.
Once you drive a muscle car, not much else will do. I love hot hatches and have had a CTR, R5 Turbo, GTE 16v and so forth but they're just not special like a big Yank with a V8 and the downside is it often crushes your desire for the cars you used to want.
Hope that helps.
Thankyou, that's a great help. My insurance is up on my Megane in June so when i renew the insurance for that, i'll speak to my insurance provider (Elephant) about what they'd quote, if anything at all, for a Camaro. I think with the build quality, the one thing i was worried about wasn't really the moving parts going wrong, but the trim falling off. With the LHD experience, i have none, but i see the only major issues i'd have in a LHD car would be a manual gear box but with the Camaro being an auto, shouldn't be to much of a problem i'd have thought, apart from with toll booths and overtaking morons doing 40 in a 60 zone.
It's very unlikely Elephant will quote you on a Camaro until they become an official UK car. You need specialists like Flux, MCE, Footman james. I know A-Plan want LHD exp and over 7 years and I know Flux tend to insist on aftermarket alarms and trackers that are wholly unnecessary.
A long time ago I rang a mainstream insurer to insure a Corvette and they went "Er... is that a Chevette?"
While many now recognise the Corvette, they tend to be uncompetitive (apart from NU Direct funnily enough).
Bear in mind that it is far easier to insure a standard car so something like a Corvette C5 Z06 with 405hp is going to be easier to insure than a modified Camaro and it is very hard to resist modifying the muscle cars as they sometimes do need it.
I certainly wouldn't worry about quality if you've got a Renault.
A long time ago I rang a mainstream insurer to insure a Corvette and they went "Er... is that a Chevette?"
While many now recognise the Corvette, they tend to be uncompetitive (apart from NU Direct funnily enough).Bear in mind that it is far easier to insure a standard car so something like a Corvette C5 Z06 with 405hp is going to be easier to insure than a modified Camaro and it is very hard to resist modifying the muscle cars as they sometimes do need it.
I certainly wouldn't worry about quality if you've got a Renault.
Regiment said:
How does the Corvette compare with the Camaro?
Faster and significantly lighter but obviously only 2 seats. Plastic bodywork, mainly aluminium underpinnings, far lower obviously and better handling and brakes.The C5 tops out at somewhere north of 170mph and hits 60 in under 5 seconds. Same basic engine but a rear-mounted transaxle rather than front-mounted box on the Camaro. The C6 is very similar to the C5 but slightly constricted in dimensions. The C5 is around 350hp, the 2001 C5 Z06 385hp and the 2002-4 C5 Z06 405hp. The C5 Z06 had various figures but one mag managed to get 60 in 3.9 and other mags got 0-100 in 8.9 or 9.9. The C6 is 400-430hp depending on year.
My only gripe with my C5 Z06 was the seats were a bit thin but then they were on a weight-saving mission so it had a thinner windscreen than the standard C5 and a titanium exhaust. The C5 Z06 only came in exclusive fixed roof form though where the C5 comes in full removeable targa or convertible form.
I think the Vette weighs under 1400kg, the 4th gen Camaro 1580kg and the new Camaro is a bit of a porker in comparison though of course with the full fat V8, it has prodigious power to shift it though it should be noted that even though the Camaro makes more power, the less powerful 2002-10 Mustangs (300/315hp 4.6 V8) are lighter (again around 1580kg). The 2011 Mustang has a 412hp 5.0 V8, is lighter and handles better than the Camaro and is as quick round a circuit as the M3. It largely depends on your priorities and which you think looks best.
Maybe on a personal import. A decent spec Camaro V8 would be about $32000 I would guess then you have to pay shipping and marine insurance and on arrival here, 10% import duty and then 20% VAT on the combined total. Then you have to pay for the IVA conversion to get white front sidelights, side repeaters, orange rear indicators and a fog light, pay for the IVA test and tax and register it.
My feeling about "official" camaros is they will price them to the market and you'd be looking at similar money to the VXR8 ie £35-40k.
A viable alternative at present is the V6 version of either the Mustang or Camaro - both now have modern engines cranking out over 300hp (the Camaro uses the Cadillac direct injection 3.6) which is more than the 2005 V8. The only downside is that the V6s tend to come in poverty spec for $23000 and when you start adding extras, they make less sense.
My feeling about "official" camaros is they will price them to the market and you'd be looking at similar money to the VXR8 ie £35-40k.
A viable alternative at present is the V6 version of either the Mustang or Camaro - both now have modern engines cranking out over 300hp (the Camaro uses the Cadillac direct injection 3.6) which is more than the 2005 V8. The only downside is that the V6s tend to come in poverty spec for $23000 and when you start adding extras, they make less sense.
LuS1fer said:
Once you drive a muscle car, not much else will do. I love hot hatches and have had a CTR, R5 Turbo, GTE 16v and so forth but they're just not special like a big Yank with a V8 and the downside is it often crushes your desire for the cars you used to want.
That's pretty true..... 
I don't that many people that have an American V8 car only once.. 
Don't worry about running costs for the latest group of pony/muscle cars. Any decent garage will be able to do an oil server for less than £150. Or you could do it yourself. These cars are bullet-proof on the mechanical side....well, the Mustang is, and I have no reason to doubt the Camaro and Challenger are the same. Don't forget, Americans won't put up with unreliable crap (which is why the Honda Accord was one of the best sellers for years 
)
Totally different driving experience from a hot hatch though
)Totally different driving experience from a hot hatch though
American V8s are pretty happy with just oil and filter changes - everything else is Capri levels of complexity and anything can be taken apart and re-assembled with a few spanners and tools you used to buy in Halfords in the 70s. The ECU does everything else. My American cars have been the cheapest to maintain as i do it myself and I'm pretty sure I do it better than the grease monkeys who do my Mondeo.
LuS1fer said:
(3) The Chevy engine is a very simple pushrod and you can service it yourself with a fork and one hand tied behind your back. they are immensely reliable. I had a 4th gen for 4 years and it was faultless bar an EGR valve which they subsequently deleted.
Unless you are talking about the latest Camaro with VVT and displacement on demand. Same pushrod base, but not quite so simple any more with cam phasers, special variable lift followers etc. Though if you want to you can convert them to vegetable mode by putting the older model components in.ringram said:
LuS1fer said:
(3) The Chevy engine is a very simple pushrod and you can service it yourself with a fork and one hand tied behind your back. they are immensely reliable. I had a 4th gen for 4 years and it was faultless bar an EGR valve which they subsequently deleted.
Unless you are talking about the latest Camaro with VVT and displacement on demand. Same pushrod base, but not quite so simple any more with cam phasers, special variable lift followers etc. Though if you want to you can convert them to vegetable mode by putting the older model components in.Gassing Station | Yank Motors | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff