Buying a Pontiac Firebird...
Discussion
After considering my first yank for a while, This summer may be the time.
I like the look and price of the Firebird, namely the older ones around the 1990-1993 models.
Its a 3.1 model most likely as i dont want to jump the gun.
Any idea what insurance would be like and is there any main problems to look at or are these cars, like most other old yanks, bullet proof to an extent?
Any help genuinely , Very much appreciated.
Ross
I like the look and price of the Firebird, namely the older ones around the 1990-1993 models.
Its a 3.1 model most likely as i dont want to jump the gun.
Any idea what insurance would be like and is there any main problems to look at or are these cars, like most other old yanks, bullet proof to an extent?
Any help genuinely , Very much appreciated.
Ross
Hi Ross,
The 3rd gen cars are reasonably proficient handlers and the later 3.1 V6 is better than the old 2.8 but still no ball of fire. If you go up to the 4th gens, the 1995-on V6 will give you 200hp.
The main problem with the V6s is they were always a base model and the interiors usually feel that way. The V8s get better suspension and brakes though you only got a standard LSD in the 4th gens. The V8s in the 3rd gens weren't that powerful either ranging from 145hp in 1982 and creeping up to around 205hp for an automatic 5.0 (the 5.7s are few and far between).
I think you'd be surprised if you check with insurers that the V8 and V6 often aren't any different on insurance.
The fact is this - V8s keep their price better and are far easier to sell when you're done. Running costs are very little different.
What is your budget and what how old are you for insurance purposes?
The 3rd gen cars are reasonably proficient handlers and the later 3.1 V6 is better than the old 2.8 but still no ball of fire. If you go up to the 4th gens, the 1995-on V6 will give you 200hp.
The main problem with the V6s is they were always a base model and the interiors usually feel that way. The V8s get better suspension and brakes though you only got a standard LSD in the 4th gens. The V8s in the 3rd gens weren't that powerful either ranging from 145hp in 1982 and creeping up to around 205hp for an automatic 5.0 (the 5.7s are few and far between).
I think you'd be surprised if you check with insurers that the V8 and V6 often aren't any different on insurance.
The fact is this - V8s keep their price better and are far easier to sell when you're done. Running costs are very little different.
What is your budget and what how old are you for insurance purposes?
What about one of the later V6 Camaros?
I saw this for sale at Beaulieu autojumble and it looked pretty tidy. A lot of car for £2000!
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/1692425.htm
Then again, what's your budget? The only V6 Firebird I've seen is this one
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/1565016.htm
£3500 should get you a tidy V8 Camaro or Firebird and the insurance and fuel economy won't be vastly different.
I saw this for sale at Beaulieu autojumble and it looked pretty tidy. A lot of car for £2000!
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/1692425.htm
Then again, what's your budget? The only V6 Firebird I've seen is this one
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/1565016.htm
£3500 should get you a tidy V8 Camaro or Firebird and the insurance and fuel economy won't be vastly different.
IROC-Z said:
What about one of the later V6 Camaros?
I saw this for sale at Beaulieu autojumble and it looked pretty tidy. A lot of car for £2000!
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/1692425.htm
Then again, what's your budget? The only V6 Firebird I've seen is this one
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/1565016.htm
£3500 should get you a tidy V8 Camaro or Firebird and the insurance and fuel economy won't be vastly different.
The top one is a Japanese import - you can tell them by the unique rear lights. The 3.4 had 160hp IIRC. £3500 seems a bit steep for the second one although the market will dicate the price as it always does.I saw this for sale at Beaulieu autojumble and it looked pretty tidy. A lot of car for £2000!
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/1692425.htm
Then again, what's your budget? The only V6 Firebird I've seen is this one
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/1565016.htm
£3500 should get you a tidy V8 Camaro or Firebird and the insurance and fuel economy won't be vastly different.
Hi guys, thanks alot for your input.
Its the second one im looking at, The grey one for £3500. Iv mailed him but he said asking price or not much less cos he just spent £800 on it.
Thats a bit over my budget to be honest but i intended haggling but tht seems far out now lol.
Its that look that i want, The old, square, muscle looking yanks.
Im 22 aswell with 4 NCB. Not tried looking yet for insurance.
Thanks again, very helpful.
Its the second one im looking at, The grey one for £3500. Iv mailed him but he said asking price or not much less cos he just spent £800 on it.
Thats a bit over my budget to be honest but i intended haggling but tht seems far out now lol.
Its that look that i want, The old, square, muscle looking yanks.
Im 22 aswell with 4 NCB. Not tried looking yet for insurance.
Thanks again, very helpful.
Rossay said:
Hi guys, thanks alot for your input.
Its the second one im looking at, The grey one for £3500. Iv mailed him but he said asking price or not much less cos he just spent £800 on it.
Thats a bit over my budget to be honest but i intended haggling but tht seems far out now lol.
Its that look that i want, The old, square, muscle looking yanks.
Im 22 aswell with 4 NCB. Not tried looking yet for insurance.
Thanks again, very helpful.
There's always the 3rd Gen Camaro too, both the Firebird/Transam and the Camaro were based on the same platform and shared engines and running gear.Its the second one im looking at, The grey one for £3500. Iv mailed him but he said asking price or not much less cos he just spent £800 on it.
Thats a bit over my budget to be honest but i intended haggling but tht seems far out now lol.
Its that look that i want, The old, square, muscle looking yanks.
Im 22 aswell with 4 NCB. Not tried looking yet for insurance.
Thanks again, very helpful.
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/1760234.htm
This one needs some work but gives you an idea of what you can get for your money.
As for insurance it is just a case of ringing around. In my experience it has got a harder to get insurance recently for younger drivers. Mine has gone up from £215 a year a couple of years ago when I was 23 to just under £700! You won't be able to transfer your NCB to a specialist policy but they will factor it in and you should get a decent discount. This is where I lost out because I only have a 2 NCB on my everyday car.
I am with A-Plan who are excellent but I don't know if they insure under 25s.
Rossay said:
After considering my first yank for a while, This summer may be the time.
I like the look and price of the Firebird, namely the older ones around the 1990-1993 models.
Its a 3.1 model most likely as i dont want to jump the gun.
Any idea what insurance would be like and is there any main problems to look at or are these cars, like most other old yanks, bullet proof to an extent?
Any help genuinely , Very much appreciated.
Ross
My advice would be to shop around for insurance and use the phone as well as the internet.I like the look and price of the Firebird, namely the older ones around the 1990-1993 models.
Its a 3.1 model most likely as i dont want to jump the gun.
Any idea what insurance would be like and is there any main problems to look at or are these cars, like most other old yanks, bullet proof to an extent?
Any help genuinely , Very much appreciated.
Ross
I'd also highly recommend getting quotes for V8's. IMO they won't cost much more to run, but have more power and sound better.
Condition is the thing to look for, all cars and car makes have issues of some kind, but not every example will suffer with them, so no real point looking for specifics. Just check everything; on, under and in.
Also I wouldn't worry about age too much, all 3rd gens are old enough to have had issues or need bits like brakes/suspension replacing. So getting an 84 is no more risky than a 92.
As Lu5ifer said, the 4th Gens have a different V6 if you do want to go for a non V8. These are fairly peppy but again still won't really cost any less to run than a V8, but I do understand it starts to push the price up a bit.
Go V8!!!!! If you buy V6 you'll never be fully satisfied with it... There will always be "but it's not a V8" thing. Believe me... Been there, done that. 
BTW I can't see a valid reason for buying V6 anyway... The fuel consumption is not that much better on the V6, it does't sound as good, and it won't be a proper yank tank without a V8.
Go V8!!!
BTW I can't see a valid reason for buying V6 anyway... The fuel consumption is not that much better on the V6, it does't sound as good, and it won't be a proper yank tank without a V8.
Go V8!!!
I could write a book on what to check for buying Camaros! LOL
personally i'd try and find a V8 injected third gen, the V6 is really not that good, no more economical, and misses a lot of the cars appeal. I'd also go 3rd gen over 4th gen any day too, as the thirdgen is a far sweeter handling car.
chassis alignment is easy to tweak out on all camaros with clumsy jacking, so check the doors shut ok, and the body is generally fitting together, the panel gaps wont be tight, but should be consistent. ALWAYS jack the car up by the diff or the cross member and put it on axle stands, never side to side.
its normal for the bonnet to over hang the nose very slightly on the thirdgen, check its alignment at the rear where it meets the wings, thats the real clue
t tops are awesome if they seal, many dont. check behind the sun visors for dampness, the bow panel (the bar between the t tops) rots, but under the seal where you cant see it, water drips onto the back of the head lining panel and runs down, coming through the srcew holes
trans mounts are weak, if the car gives one wierd vague clonk under hard acceleration that seems to come from the center of the car, this is the culprit, its a cheap and easy fix, about £20 for the mount, and 30 mins work to fit.
electric windows can be very slow, thats quite normal. there are no major problems with the electrics particular to thirdgens except fuel pumps. checking under the boot carpet behind the rear seats is a good sign of how well maintained the car has been - if the boot floor has been cut to change the fuel pump its been butcherd - its not an especialy difficult job, so if this common corner has been cut, what else has?
avoid excessivley butchered cars, especialy autos that have had the electronic managment and ECU removed and run on basic HEI and holley carb type setups- the torque converter is a lock up one, and if the lock up doesnt work (the ECU controls this) the box can run hotter than normal, and shorten its life. the TC lockup helps motorway fuel consumption considerably too. this is VERY easy to check though, drive the car along at about 40 mph in overdirve ( drive inside the square, as opposed to the one marked just drive) and just touch the brake pedal with your left foot. if the TCC is working correctly the revs should instantly jump about 2 - 300 rpm as the torque converter unlocks.
check the inner rear arches for rust, and check the underside of the bonnet - salt water hits the headlights in winter, sprays upwards, and gets trapped in the seam between the inner and outer skin of the bonnet, rotting it out alarmingly quickly. good used bonnets are hard to find due to this very reason.
by now, lots of neglected thirdgens have bitten the dust, so try and find a good honest clean example thats not been messed with. £2500 will get a nice RS with the Throttle Body injection, not the quickest car ever, but reliable, and FAR better than the V6, expect 19 - 22 mpg urban, 30 mpg on a run, £3500 is about the starting price for a nice Z28 or IROC with the TPI tuned port injection, but there are a lot of snotters out there so dont be afraid to walk away..
a good IROC or Z28 should feel solid and punchy on the road, cornering well with very little body roll, and have decent enough brakes, (poor brakes are more down to neglect rather than poor design, they aren't cutting edge, but they work well enough) dont be fooled into 'they handle well for a yank' a sorted thirdgen handles well, period, if its a boaty drive, something is wrong.
4th gens had a lower front end, with a different under structure in the front, and aren't as stiff, so simply do not change direction as well, if the age of the car isn't a big deal, a V8 thirdgen will run absolute rings around a V6 4th gen.
personally i'd try and find a V8 injected third gen, the V6 is really not that good, no more economical, and misses a lot of the cars appeal. I'd also go 3rd gen over 4th gen any day too, as the thirdgen is a far sweeter handling car.
chassis alignment is easy to tweak out on all camaros with clumsy jacking, so check the doors shut ok, and the body is generally fitting together, the panel gaps wont be tight, but should be consistent. ALWAYS jack the car up by the diff or the cross member and put it on axle stands, never side to side.
its normal for the bonnet to over hang the nose very slightly on the thirdgen, check its alignment at the rear where it meets the wings, thats the real clue
t tops are awesome if they seal, many dont. check behind the sun visors for dampness, the bow panel (the bar between the t tops) rots, but under the seal where you cant see it, water drips onto the back of the head lining panel and runs down, coming through the srcew holes
trans mounts are weak, if the car gives one wierd vague clonk under hard acceleration that seems to come from the center of the car, this is the culprit, its a cheap and easy fix, about £20 for the mount, and 30 mins work to fit.
electric windows can be very slow, thats quite normal. there are no major problems with the electrics particular to thirdgens except fuel pumps. checking under the boot carpet behind the rear seats is a good sign of how well maintained the car has been - if the boot floor has been cut to change the fuel pump its been butcherd - its not an especialy difficult job, so if this common corner has been cut, what else has?
avoid excessivley butchered cars, especialy autos that have had the electronic managment and ECU removed and run on basic HEI and holley carb type setups- the torque converter is a lock up one, and if the lock up doesnt work (the ECU controls this) the box can run hotter than normal, and shorten its life. the TC lockup helps motorway fuel consumption considerably too. this is VERY easy to check though, drive the car along at about 40 mph in overdirve ( drive inside the square, as opposed to the one marked just drive) and just touch the brake pedal with your left foot. if the TCC is working correctly the revs should instantly jump about 2 - 300 rpm as the torque converter unlocks.
check the inner rear arches for rust, and check the underside of the bonnet - salt water hits the headlights in winter, sprays upwards, and gets trapped in the seam between the inner and outer skin of the bonnet, rotting it out alarmingly quickly. good used bonnets are hard to find due to this very reason.
by now, lots of neglected thirdgens have bitten the dust, so try and find a good honest clean example thats not been messed with. £2500 will get a nice RS with the Throttle Body injection, not the quickest car ever, but reliable, and FAR better than the V6, expect 19 - 22 mpg urban, 30 mpg on a run, £3500 is about the starting price for a nice Z28 or IROC with the TPI tuned port injection, but there are a lot of snotters out there so dont be afraid to walk away..
a good IROC or Z28 should feel solid and punchy on the road, cornering well with very little body roll, and have decent enough brakes, (poor brakes are more down to neglect rather than poor design, they aren't cutting edge, but they work well enough) dont be fooled into 'they handle well for a yank' a sorted thirdgen handles well, period, if its a boaty drive, something is wrong.
4th gens had a lower front end, with a different under structure in the front, and aren't as stiff, so simply do not change direction as well, if the age of the car isn't a big deal, a V8 thirdgen will run absolute rings around a V6 4th gen.
Edited by philoldsmobile on Friday 16th July 19:10
Bloody 'ell Phil, you're on here too! Andy from MKB...
Was going to say to the orignal poster, been trying to get insurance for a while and the best place I found for quotes were Graham Sykes. Although they did mess around when it came to changing a policy mid term which resulted in termination of the policy! PM for more details if you want.
Unfortunately though a lot of places refuse to under 25's, only Adrian Flux and Graham Sykes seem to insure young drivers on yanks.
Best of luck though!
Was going to say to the orignal poster, been trying to get insurance for a while and the best place I found for quotes were Graham Sykes. Although they did mess around when it came to changing a policy mid term which resulted in termination of the policy! PM for more details if you want.
Unfortunately though a lot of places refuse to under 25's, only Adrian Flux and Graham Sykes seem to insure young drivers on yanks.
Best of luck though!
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