more help/advice needed
Discussion
well the Camaro didn't work out this time - guy managed to sell it before I could get back for a second look which truth be told is a bit of a shame... but that's life
still on the look out for one (though I'm not busting a gut just yet) and the obvious though has cropped up - namely what about a New Edge Mustang? again I'd be looking at a V8 though I do seem to recall that the Zee would spank the 'stang out of the ring in terms of sheer grunt (Zee is 300ish vs 'stang 250?)... is the 'stang cheaper to buy bits 'n' bobs for or is the Zee better there too? What about handling and ride comfort? I suspect in terms of mpgs they're going to be pretty much the same? Also I seem to recall seeing more Camaros about than Mustangs - is this the case or wasn't I just noticing the 'stangs?
still on the look out for one (though I'm not busting a gut just yet) and the obvious though has cropped up - namely what about a New Edge Mustang? again I'd be looking at a V8 though I do seem to recall that the Zee would spank the 'stang out of the ring in terms of sheer grunt (Zee is 300ish vs 'stang 250?)... is the 'stang cheaper to buy bits 'n' bobs for or is the Zee better there too? What about handling and ride comfort? I suspect in terms of mpgs they're going to be pretty much the same? Also I seem to recall seeing more Camaros about than Mustangs - is this the case or wasn't I just noticing the 'stangs?
I think you needed to be a bit more specific if you read your post. I had to check up at your previous thread to work out what you were talking about...
4th gen Camaros I think.. ? Again had to look up 'New Edge Mustang' ... I think most will just call it a facelift 4th Gen Mustang, or 99' - 04'
I can't personally help, bit more knowledge on the older pre -90's stuff..
4th gen Camaros I think.. ? Again had to look up 'New Edge Mustang' ... I think most will just call it a facelift 4th Gen Mustang, or 99' - 04'
I can't personally help, bit more knowledge on the older pre -90's stuff..
The 4th gen Camaro Z28 always spanked the Mustang in tests. It had 275bhp up to 1995 and 285bhp in 1996. The SS had 305hp. The 1998-on LS1 had an "official" 305hp but in truth wasn't that different from the 345hp Corvette engine and put out nearer 300hp at the rear wheels which accounts for the 13 second quarters. The later SS's put out 320/325 "officially".
The New Edge Mustang appeared in 1999 and had the 4.6 260hp engine. The 4.6 was never going to match the Chevy 5.7 but is a bigger engine physically with it's OHC compared to the very compact OHV Chevy block. The Cobra featured IRS in place of the live axle and had either 305 or 320hp though there was a debacle as the cars had to be recalled as they didn't make that power. there was no Cobra for 2000 and it returned 2001 with 320hp. The IRS was no great shakes, being designed to fit the existing live axle mounting points but it still rode and handled quite well.
One thing worth mentioning is that the 1994-1996 iron-block LT1 Chevy engine has a system called Optispark which is like a direct distributor on the nose of the crank. It was a daft idea from day one as it has water coming at it from every direction (including coolant changes)and little protection so always check for misfiring as they're a bugg*r to change. The later all-alloy LS1 used 8 coils.
The New Edge Mustang appeared in 1999 and had the 4.6 260hp engine. The 4.6 was never going to match the Chevy 5.7 but is a bigger engine physically with it's OHC compared to the very compact OHV Chevy block. The Cobra featured IRS in place of the live axle and had either 305 or 320hp though there was a debacle as the cars had to be recalled as they didn't make that power. there was no Cobra for 2000 and it returned 2001 with 320hp. The IRS was no great shakes, being designed to fit the existing live axle mounting points but it still rode and handled quite well.
One thing worth mentioning is that the 1994-1996 iron-block LT1 Chevy engine has a system called Optispark which is like a direct distributor on the nose of the crank. It was a daft idea from day one as it has water coming at it from every direction (including coolant changes)and little protection so always check for misfiring as they're a bugg*r to change. The later all-alloy LS1 used 8 coils.
Edited by LuS1fer on Monday 22 February 10:09
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Edited by balls-out on Monday 22 February 09:20
LuS1fer said:
The 4th gen Camaro Z28 always spanked the Mustang in tests. It had 275bhp up to 1995 and 285bhp in 1996. The SS had 305hp. The 1998-on LS1 had an "official" 305hp but in truth wasn't that different from the 345hp Corvette engine and put out nearer 300hp at the rear wheels which accounts for the 13 second quarters. The later SS's put out 320/325 "officially".
The New Edge Mustang appeared in 1999 and had the 4.6 260hp engine. The 4.6 was never going to match the Chevy 5.7 but is a bigger engine physically with it's OHC compared to the very compact OHV Chevy block. The Cobra featured IRS in place of the live axle and had either 305 or 320hp though there was a debacle as the cars had to be recalled as they didn't make that power. there was no Cobra for 2000 and it returned 2001 with 320hp. The IRS was no great shakes, being designed to fit the existing live axle mounting points but it still rode and handled quite well.
One thing worth mentioning is that the 1994-1996 iron-block LT1 Chevy engine has a system called Optispark which is like a direct distributor on the nose of the crank. It was a daft idea from day one as it has water coming at it from every direction (including coolant changes)and little protection so always check for misfiring as they're a bugg*r to change. The later all-alloy LS1 used 8 coils.
Cheers for all that dude - I fairness I guess I'm not overly concerned about the outright grunt since I'll not be going curcuit or drag racing and the budget counts out the Cobra/Bullit/Mach 1 Mustangs which is a shame as there's a little beauty in the classifieds at 10k... Although I'm not into the overall grunt side of things there are limits and either f-body or Mustang will have to be a V8 and auto... If I decide I want to pep things up a little it strikes me that the Mustangs could be cheaper to buy and modify but the f-body is a better starting point (50hp or so is a heck of an advantage)The New Edge Mustang appeared in 1999 and had the 4.6 260hp engine. The 4.6 was never going to match the Chevy 5.7 but is a bigger engine physically with it's OHC compared to the very compact OHV Chevy block. The Cobra featured IRS in place of the live axle and had either 305 or 320hp though there was a debacle as the cars had to be recalled as they didn't make that power. there was no Cobra for 2000 and it returned 2001 with 320hp. The IRS was no great shakes, being designed to fit the existing live axle mounting points but it still rode and handled quite well.
One thing worth mentioning is that the 1994-1996 iron-block LT1 Chevy engine has a system called Optispark which is like a direct distributor on the nose of the crank. It was a daft idea from day one as it has water coming at it from every direction (including coolant changes)and little protection so always check for misfiring as they're a bugg*r to change. The later all-alloy LS1 used 8 coils.
Edited by LuS1fer on Monday 22 February 10:09
Does anyone have any idea on the handling and ride differences between the 4th gen F-bodies and the 99-04 Mustangs, or are they equally as bad/good?
Just out of curiosity looking at all the figures I'd imagine a 99-04 Mustang would be pretty similar performance wise to a 3rd gen f-body (of which I've owned a few) would this also be a better base on which to hang handling comparisons on to?
chevy-stu said:
I think you needed to be a bit more specific if you read your post. I had to check up at your previous thread to work out what you were talking about...
4th gen Camaros I think.. ? Again had to look up 'New Edge Mustang' ... I think most will just call it a facelift 4th Gen Mustang, or 99' - 04'
I can't personally help, bit more knowledge on the older pre -90's stuff..
cheers dude - I had another look at my original question and can see where you're coming from D'OH!!!4th gen Camaros I think.. ? Again had to look up 'New Edge Mustang' ... I think most will just call it a facelift 4th Gen Mustang, or 99' - 04'
I can't personally help, bit more knowledge on the older pre -90's stuff..
I can't offer a definitive view but I had a 1981 Mustang Ghia (Fox-body which the later Mustang was derived from)and the handling on that was quite surprising - not exactly sharp but it was a reasonable drive though the 100hp 3.3 wasn't going to be taxing any chassis. I would say the Mustang is more rigid, structurally, than the T-topped Camaro.
I had a 1987 Z28 with a princely 175hp. It wasn't fast but it wasn't slow and handled quite nicely with the slick T5 gearbox helping to keep it planted through the bends. It could keep up with a well-driven Focus and was capable of maintaining high average speeds. The only mod I made was tubular lower control arms though I know from my 4th gen that they respond well to a strut-top brace. They do benefit from welded on subframe connectors too but these add weight.
I believe the 3rd gen and Mustang both weigh about the same and that era both use iron block engines. Brakes are unexceptional and a limiting factor on both. The interior on the early 3rd gens was pretty poor and the later post-90 cars are much better but the Mustang wasn't much better, being typical 80's Ford. They generally all had period cloth seats too.
In general, it used to come down to looks. The Camaros looked better than the Mustang though the New Edge improved things considerably. It also comes down to gearboxes because the more powerful Camaros only came in automatic form so if you want a manual, it has to be the Mustang. The automatic 5.0 Camaros also only got 205hp compared to the manual's 215 and you had to buy a 5.7 to get the 235hp V8 (later 245 I believe).
The adage with all American cars is the newer the better they built them as they improved the cars year on year. from that point of view, a New Edge Mustang would probably be my choice, simply because nice Z28s are hard to find - but ultimately I would buy the one in the best condition, regardless. Buying a car to "do up" can be a false economy. The post-'90 Camaros had a lot of sound-deadening injected into them to stop the b*ggers rattling too and they had the better body-kit.
So my advice is buy on condition as I doubt there is really that much in it unless you're going 4th gen.
4th gens are IMHO a bit floppy in the chassis and benefit enormously from a STB, SFCs and uprated lower control arms.
The basic difference between Mustang and camaro, iIfound, was that you sit in a Camaro and sit on a Mustang which is far more car-like to drive.
Excuse the rambling....
I had a 1987 Z28 with a princely 175hp. It wasn't fast but it wasn't slow and handled quite nicely with the slick T5 gearbox helping to keep it planted through the bends. It could keep up with a well-driven Focus and was capable of maintaining high average speeds. The only mod I made was tubular lower control arms though I know from my 4th gen that they respond well to a strut-top brace. They do benefit from welded on subframe connectors too but these add weight.
I believe the 3rd gen and Mustang both weigh about the same and that era both use iron block engines. Brakes are unexceptional and a limiting factor on both. The interior on the early 3rd gens was pretty poor and the later post-90 cars are much better but the Mustang wasn't much better, being typical 80's Ford. They generally all had period cloth seats too.
In general, it used to come down to looks. The Camaros looked better than the Mustang though the New Edge improved things considerably. It also comes down to gearboxes because the more powerful Camaros only came in automatic form so if you want a manual, it has to be the Mustang. The automatic 5.0 Camaros also only got 205hp compared to the manual's 215 and you had to buy a 5.7 to get the 235hp V8 (later 245 I believe).
The adage with all American cars is the newer the better they built them as they improved the cars year on year. from that point of view, a New Edge Mustang would probably be my choice, simply because nice Z28s are hard to find - but ultimately I would buy the one in the best condition, regardless. Buying a car to "do up" can be a false economy. The post-'90 Camaros had a lot of sound-deadening injected into them to stop the b*ggers rattling too and they had the better body-kit.
So my advice is buy on condition as I doubt there is really that much in it unless you're going 4th gen.
4th gens are IMHO a bit floppy in the chassis and benefit enormously from a STB, SFCs and uprated lower control arms.
The basic difference between Mustang and camaro, iIfound, was that you sit in a Camaro and sit on a Mustang which is far more car-like to drive.
Excuse the rambling....
Z28fan said:
well the Camaro didn't work out this time - guy managed to sell it before I could get back for a second look which truth be told is a bit of a shame... but that's life
still on the look out for one (though I'm not busting a gut just yet) and the obvious though has cropped up - namely what about a New Edge Mustang? again I'd be looking at a V8 though I do seem to recall that the Zee would spank the 'stang out of the ring in terms of sheer grunt (Zee is 300ish vs 'stang 250?)... is the 'stang cheaper to buy bits 'n' bobs for or is the Zee better there too? What about handling and ride comfort? I suspect in terms of mpgs they're going to be pretty much the same? Also I seem to recall seeing more Camaros about than Mustangs - is this the case or wasn't I just noticing the 'stangs?
I really like Mustangs, I'm not one of these Ford or GM type of people.still on the look out for one (though I'm not busting a gut just yet) and the obvious though has cropped up - namely what about a New Edge Mustang? again I'd be looking at a V8 though I do seem to recall that the Zee would spank the 'stang out of the ring in terms of sheer grunt (Zee is 300ish vs 'stang 250?)... is the 'stang cheaper to buy bits 'n' bobs for or is the Zee better there too? What about handling and ride comfort? I suspect in terms of mpgs they're going to be pretty much the same? Also I seem to recall seeing more Camaros about than Mustangs - is this the case or wasn't I just noticing the 'stangs?
But in reality a new age sn95 Mustang is no match for a LS1 Fbody unless you plan lots of mods.
They are also a strange car in the UK. There are quite a number of early sn95's about, most V6's and the old 5.0 OHV. But very few 99-04 examples.
No idea why.
But in reality a 1999 Mustang GT seems to cost more to buy than a 1999 Camaro z28 in the UK.
Performance wise the gap is pretty huge. Stock Stangs make 260hp while a LS1 Camaro will be making a real 320-350hp depending on exact year and model.
Handling wise the Fbody is also the winner.
That said a Mustang GT is still a nice car and will clock 0-60mph in 5.5 sec and a top speed of around 140mph.
If you have the funds then a Cobra or Mach 1 would make sense. There was a lovely Mach 1 on ebay the other month for £8k:
These have a DOHC aluminium engine and make 305hp with uprated suspension.
Cobra's have ~320hp and DOHC engine and some have IRS and a 6 speed manual (no auto option available).
Fantastic cars none the less and I wouldn't mind a Stang as a daily driver and a Camaro as a weekend toy, but it would be that way round not the other.
American cars get advertised at ball-park figures. what they are advertised for is rarely what they sell for unless it's a real bargain. I sold my modified LS1 Z28 for £8000 in 2005 and I've seen them as low as £5500 but ultimately it depends on condition, mileage and how much the buyer wants the car.
I bought an £8000 Corvette for £7000 and the '98 Z28 was advertised for £12000 in 2001 and I paid £10500. The only way is to advertise it and consider offers. You'll soon know if it's too much. A good rule of thumb is to price up equivalent year C4 Corvettes, the cheapest C5 and work out a reasonable price from there.
I bought an £8000 Corvette for £7000 and the '98 Z28 was advertised for £12000 in 2001 and I paid £10500. The only way is to advertise it and consider offers. You'll soon know if it's too much. A good rule of thumb is to price up equivalent year C4 Corvettes, the cheapest C5 and work out a reasonable price from there.
lol... I'd be lying if I said the thought hadn't occured to me - however IIRC the Z28SS was a manual only, plus I'd be a little more interested in an LS rather than the LT (more reliable, more economical, newer, more powerful, easier/cheaper to work on/get bits for)... saw a modded blue '93 Z28 for sale for 3,000 on PH and a red 2000 on fleabay for 4,995 (though since he doesn't respond to questions I really can't be bothered to chase him)... Bonsai have a 2000 'stang for sale @ 5,900 which looks pretty decent too so we'll just have to wait and see how things pan out
300bhp/ton said:
balls-out said:
What is your budget?
Oddly enough there don't seem to be many 4th gen z28s on the market at the moment. I've been trying to sus out the market to value mine...
What sort of money would you be looking for?Oddly enough there don't seem to be many 4th gen z28s on the market at the moment. I've been trying to sus out the market to value mine...
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