4th gen Z28 question

[Z28fan]

Hi all - I've got a couple of questions regarding 4th gen Z28s and was hoping that you could help


1) apart from exhaust, mirrors and lights what's the difference between a US and Euro-spec Z28?
2) is there any advantage to buying a US import over a Euro-spec?
3) what's the difference between a Z28 and an SS - as far as I know it's just exhaust (again!), air intake and (on some) ram-air hood. Presumably if the exhaust is replace and a CAI system fitted a Z would perform just as well as an SS?
4) if I remember correctly 1999 and up have traction control (which can be turned off) is this correct?
5) anything else to look out for specifically on the 'maros?

I'm not too worried about the mpgs since round about the 30 mark on a run is fine - obviously if you tt the loud pedal then you'll see the figures drop ditto round town

I'll probably have a few more questions over the next few weeks but for now I hope you'll be able to assist (:

[TheMighty]

Here's some answers off the top of my head -

1)Seats are different in the Euro-spec as they're from the Pontiac. I was told numerous times that the suspension on the Euro-spec was the SS package, but mine appears to be standard US Z28. Obviously you get a UK spec stereo with proper UK radio tuning on the Euro-spec where if you keep the standard one in a US car you'd only have "odd points" tuning.

2) Advantage of buying a US grey import is that you pay import related car tax at £190 a year rather than emmisions related on a Euro-spec which will be going up to £400 and a bit very soon . The other advantage is that when some pillock tts your mirror you don't get raped for £400 when you only need the glass! Plus of course you get US size number plate recesses and can run bike size letters which just looks cooler.

The BIG disadvantage is that you MUST check the history of the car in the US before it came here with Carfax. There is at least 1 Camaro SS out there that came into the UK at 6 months old after being a total write-off in Pennsylvania. Obviously this doesn't show up on HPI although they are aware of the car in question.

3) SS's were put together by SLP and as such some have got bits others haven't. Obviously you've picked up on the main points but there was also an Eibach suspension option on SS's. So if you do the shocks and springs, add a SLP cold air kit and an airbox lid, then have a true dual exhaust (with x-pipe) put together, you should outperform a standard SS. There's very little in it anyway.

4) Traction control is bloody useless, and in fact I drive with it off as I think its safer. By what I can tell the traction control simply puts some sort of loop in the trottle cable which releases when it senses a loss of traction, so that the pedal actually drops out from under your right foot! its most disconserting the first few times it happens and if you're on a greasy roundabout you're more likely to spin than if you just feather the throttle yourself.

5) Other things... Rear wheels bearings/ axle end bearings are a known issue and if they're rumbling the likelyhood is that halfshaft is already knackered. The top hat repair bearings don't seal properly so axle oil will leak from the hub if they've been done the cheap and easy way. If the rear end is noisey just make sure you're not mistaking a noisey Posi diff for the bearing being noisey. Posi diffs do tend to rattle around a little especially when you're off the power into a shallow bend. The later cars with the LS6 inlet (without the EGR) tend to make more power and run better all round. LS1's aren't the quietest motor so be prepared to hear some valvetrain noise, but its usually nothing to worry about. Obviously check the rear floor for T-Top leaks. They often run down inside the roof/sail panel and out of the seatbelt holes or down to the bottom and under the back seat and into the back floor. Get your hand between the rear carpet and the side plastic panel and have a feel around for damp. 4th gens are MUCH drier than 3rd gens though so don't expect too many problems.

If there's anything else I can help with just shout. I'm sure Lusifer will be along in a bit to impart more wisdom too.

Edited by TheMighty on Thursday 4th February 22:43

[maudyZ28]

I have a Euro spec car

Its a 99, and still on 190 tax a year (all pre 2001 euro cas are )

It speedo is in KM though can easily pic up new dials for $50 and ship from the US

Presonally the euro spec had a nice interior if you can get the leather as they usually have all the extras too. The SS had the nice hood, slp intake and dual exhaust at rear, z28 have single rear (the mid pipes are all same on both) Some have to suspensioon specked up as Mighty said but i've got aftermarket stuff on my Z28 and its much better than an SS.

Keep an ear out for rear end whining and noises and gearbox noises and autos for slipping etc and have a drive before you buy. The are pretty easy to work on, oil change etc only the spark plugs are a nightmare but can be done. Parts are reasonable provided you know where to go and find some good US sellers too.

Anything else just get back on here and ask us, we'll help you out

[300bhp/ton]

Z28fan said:

Hi all - I've got a couple of questions regarding 4th gen Z28s and was hoping that you could help

I'll give it a shot.

However it's worth remembering that the 1993-1997 cars are quite different to the 1998-2002 ones.

Essentially in 1998 the cars (Camaro and Pontiac Firebird) underwent a facelift inside and out. And also inherited the LS1 alumiunium V8 from the Corvette C5. Replacing the older cast iron LT1 V8.

Z28fan said:

1) apart from exhaust, mirrors and lights what's the difference between a US and Euro-spec Z28?

I've researched this quite a bit and it seems that nobody really knows, or if they do it certainly isn't made public and easy to find on the web.

As far as exhausts go, I've got a 99 model year 2000 reg EURO spec Camaro. It was 100% stock when I bought it and had no indication that it had, had any changes.

The exhaust was identical to US cars. 2 CATS, Y pipe and then two rectangular exhaust outlets, one each side at the back.

But I agree I've read articles saying how Euro spec Camaro's had the V6 exhaust fitted to the V8 model.

I've also read articles claiming they have 4 cats instead of the US spec two.

Sadly I don't know the full answer here.

I've also seen HP claims of 288bhp (think it was Autocar, no idea where they got it from), while other sources say 295bhp. Mine's been on the rollers and looks like its making around 320bhp.

As for other changes, yep rear bumper which includes rear foglights and a different cut out for the number plate. Door mirrors. Hazard warning switch, it seems they don't have these in US ones. And its a bit of a retrofit or bodge on the Euro ones. Mine broke and I had to replace it a few years back, luckily I sourced the part number. It took about 2 weeks to get but only cost £2.67 iirc

Different seats, I believe Euro Camaro's have Firebird seats. These are really nice and comfy.

Not sure if the UK spec Euro cars have different reflectors in the headlights as we drive on the left.

As for suspension I don't really know. I've often wondered if the Euro cars have the uprated suspension on them.

The shocks on mine are DeCarbon, but they were on it when I bought it so don't know if that's stock or not. All I can say is I think it handles very well. As well as anything else comparable that I've driven and I've been a number of different vehicles.

Odometers are in KMh not mph. although it has mph in small numbers. I thought this would be a huge issue, but to be honest it isn't even an issue.

Most Euro spec ones are well specced T-top models with all the options. Not sure if a base coupe was available or not, although there is one claiming this on Ebay at the mo.

Z28fan said:

2) is there any advantage to buying a US import over a Euro-spec?

One point to mention which is sort of a difference as per point 1 above.

Euro spec Camaro's were only available in few model specs. So if you want a Convertible z28, SS or something like the Police issue B4C (stripped out and lighter with all performance goodies) then an import is the only option.

Other things to consider are the oddball Euro parts can be diffcult to get hold of, where as the very mass produced US spec bits will be easier.

Z28fan said:

3) what's the difference between a Z28 and an SS - as far as I know it's just exhaust (again!), air intake and (on some) ram-air hood. Presumably if the exhaust is replace and a CAI system fitted a Z would perform just as well as an SS?

Depends on the year.

Early SS's (93-97) were actually built (or modified) by a company called SLP (Street Legal Performance).

For 98 onwards GM bought it in house and the SS was a full produciton option from the factory.

Changes consist of three main area's for the 98+ cars:

-appearance. All SS Camaro's got a bonnet scoop. Its more for show than go though. They also have a slightly different rear spoiler, it has more of a flip on it.

SS had different wheels, 17" as opposed to 16". But I believe there was an additional optional wheel but not certain. I know some had 275 width tyres as stock over the 245 width tyre on a z28.

Some had body kits, and specifically a different rear bumper with a centre exit exhaust.

-Exhaust. I think it was an option, but you could get basically an aftermarket catback exhaust as standard on the SS. Some if not all were centre exit (under the licence plate).

-intake. As an option I think the SLP air lid box was available. These are about $90 to buy from SLP today and they do offer up a bit more HP.

-Suspension. The SS had uprated dampers, springs and anti-roll bars.

Overal a z28 can easily match a SS with the right parts on it. And if you planned to fit a different catback to an SS part of the advantage is lost already.

It really comes down to if you want to mod or not. Stock for stock an SS has 10-20hp (tops) over a z28. Despite what GM may have advertised. And then dependant on the exact spec of the SS.

Handling certainly is better on the SS, but again if you plan to change it, then you've gained little.

The biggest difference is appearance. Getting an SS bonnet and rear spoiler in the UK to fit to a z28 would be very costly due to the size and weight of the items to ship from the US.

That said it does depend on year of the SS.

If you have the opposrtunity to get an SS at similar money to a z28 then I'd go for the SS.

There's some good info here to start you off http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Camaro_%28f...

Z28fan said:

4) if I remember correctly 1999 and up hav
e traction control (which can be turned off) is this correct?

Yep it's called ASR, although I think it was on the 1998 models too.

And yes you can switch it off, so you can do things like this

Z28fan said:

5) anything else to look out for specifically on the 'maros?

Just general condition really. LT1 engines have Optisprk which can be a bugger, but it's a good engine.

Rear axles are a weak point and modded cars can break them.

Z28fan said:

I'm not too worried about the mpgs since round about the 30 mark on a run is fine - obviously if you tt the loud pedal then you'll see the figures drop ditto round town

Mines an auto, I generally see 22-24mpg. In fact I've never clocked it at lower than 22mpg, but I can't say that it hasn't been lower. I don't think its ever been sub 20 though, even in the height of winter with very short journeys.

26mpg is the highest I've seen, but others claim nearer to 30mpg or over with a 6 speed manual.

Z28fan said:

I'll probably have a few more questions over the next few weeks but for now I hope you'll be able to assist (:

Sure

There's lots to know, so feel free to ask away.

Do you plan to mod BTW?


Here's some articles:





A modest comparison

The American F-Body vs. The German 911 Carrera S

(or what happens when the Chevy Camaro and the Porsche 911 meet at the OK Corral!)

Your browser may not support display of this image.
Your browser may not support display of this image.

best viewed full-screen at 800x600 or greater

One day, my German office mate and I got into a philosophical discussion about the finer points of German sports cars vs. American muscle cars. The argument generally goes that German cars are technologically superior and therefore better. I contend, however, that we have made much better use of the available technology to make a car that is equal in all respects, if not better.

Now, being graduate students in physics and holding absolutely no qualifications to judge on our own - and most importantly, not owning the cars involved - I decided to look up published tests on the cars involved. No magazine in their right mind woul d do a comparison test like this, so I had to put together as many tests under the same conditions as possible.

I decided to settle on three cars:

* The 1997 Porsche 911 Carrera S: ...currently available in the US for about $70,000.
* The "base" 1998 Camaro Z28: ...with the new LS1 engine checking in at $22,000.
* The top-of-the-line 1998 Firebird Trans-Am Firehawk: ...with gaping ram-air nostrils selling for about $33,000.

These cars represent different engine placement and philosophy, but are otherwise in a similar automotive class: rear-wheel-drive 2+2 sports coupe. The Porsche uses a SOHC and a quick-spinning motor to achieve 282 bhp, while the 1998 Z28's LS1 engine makes 305 bhp using tried and true pushrods. The 1998 Firehawk uses the same LS1 engine with Ram-Air induction and gaping exhaust vents, bringing 327 bhp to the track.

The results of the various Porsche (Carrera, Cabriolet, S) that use the same engine would, of course, be comparable, as would be the Z28 SS and the Firehawk, as well as the regular Formula and the Z28.

Vital Stats
price, base/ as tested engine/ transmission front suspension rear suspension wheelbase length width height brakes tires
1997 Porsche 911 Carrera S $66,796/ $70,113 3.6L SOHC flat-6 6800 rpm, 282 bhp, 250 lb-ft, 6-speed manual ind: strut, control arm, coil springs, anti-roll bar ind: lower control arm with 4 links/side, coil springs, anti-roll bar 89.4 167.7 70.7 51.8 vented, drilled discs, ABS F:205/50 R17
R:255/40 R17
1998 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 $20,640/ $22,845 5.7L pushrod V8 6000 rpm, 305 bhp, 335 lb-ft, 6-speed manual ind: unequal length control arms, coil springs, anti-roll bar rigid axle: located by 2 links, torque arm, and Panhard rod, coil springs, anti-roll bar 101.1 193.2 74.1 51.3 vented discs, ABS 245/50 R16
1998 Pontiac Trans-Am Firehawk $26,500/ $33,878 5.7L pushrod V8 - 6000 rpm, 327 bhp, 345 lb-ft, 6-speed manual ind: unequal length control arms, coil springs, anti-roll bar rigid axle: located by 2 links, torque arm, and Panhard rod, coil springs, anti-roll bar 101.1 193.8 74.5 52.0 vented discs, ABS 275/40 R17



Comparison Test #1: Handling

Your browser may not support display of this image. The following is a test of the car's handling. No attention was paid to such things as low lift-over height of the trunk or cupholders. In most ways, this is the purest of tests. The test used a 1997 Z28, which had the less powerful LT1 engine, making "only" 285 bhp. But since the tests measured handling, of which acceleration is a very small part, I decided to go ahead and use the review anyway.

The data was gathered from Car and Driver issues of June, 1997 and Sept. 1997 which pitted 14 different stock 1997 models against one another in a quest to discover the best handling cars in the world. The 1986 Camaro won American honors the last time this event was held some 10 years ago while the Porsche 944 won foreign honors. The articles referenced were:

1. The Best-Handling Car for Less Than $30,000, C&D, pp 58. v42, #12, (1997)
2. The Best-Handling Car for More Than $30,000, C&D, pp 65. v43, #3, (1997)



The subjective ratings
ergo. driver's seat steering feel direct. stab. ride corn./ brak. corn./ accel. agility path acc. brakes confidence factor fun to drive low- speed corn. high- speed corn. OVERALL RATING
911 8 9 9 8 9 8 8 9 8 9 8 9 8 8 89
Z28 8 7 8 8 8 9 9 7 8 8 8 9 8 8 88

Standard disclaimer: The overall rating is not a strict sum, but rather a weighted sum where the more important handling attributes are given greater weight.

The objective ratings
roadholding
bumpy skidpad, g roadholding
smooth skidpad, g accel. slalom MPH decel. slalom MPH
911 .83 .86 54.0 58.3
Z28 .81 .85 53.1 53.2

Analysis:

The Z gets high marks for its ability to corner, especially while braking and under acceleration and for its fun-to-drive ability. The car loses marks for its driving position and agility. The car's seat design date from 1982, and could stand an updat e to modern ergonomics. The agility problem is due largely to its larger size, especially the width (nearly 4 inches.), which makes the car more stable during cornering, but makes it harder to thread the car through narrowing slalom gates. Though slower through the gates due to it's wider stance, the car was able to hold on by sheer tire size and grip to claw through at very respectable speeds.

The Porsche gets high marks for it's driving position and "feel", two very hard terms to quantify. One person may like the driving person in one car while a differently proportioned human -- even of equal height -- may find the driving position unsuit able. The car's lack of stability during cornering while accelerating and decelerating (as compared to the Z28) is a result of its smaller size. Bumps tend to upset the smaller wheelbase car more. Though the car was able to manage a higher speed throug h the slalom, it was difficult to achieve, and editors felt that they had to concentrate very hard to keep the front end pointing the correct direction.

In conclusion, both cars handled very well. The 911 may be somewhat faster in quick back and forth transitions, but the Z28 uses its size and stability to pull ahead during long sweeping corners that one decelerates into and accelerates out of.

Winner: Porsche by a nose.


Comparison Test #2: Acceleration and Braking

Your browser may not support display of this image. For this, I will again take data from C&D magazines, the most recent of each breed available. This will have the Base 1998 Z28 representing the best of the bang-for-the-buck; the Firebird T rans-Am Firehawk representing the top of the line F-body; the Porsche 911 Carrera S representing the entry-level Porsche. The references are:

1. Porsche 911 Carrera S, C&D, pp 129. v43, #3, (1997)
2. Chevrolet Camaro Z28, C&D, pp 93. v43, #6, (1997)
3. Pontiac Trans Am Firehawk, C&D, pp 69. v43, #9, (1998)



The numbers

Standing Start Acceleration Times
Zero to 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 110 120 130 140
911 1.6 2.6 3.7 4.9 6.6 8.5 10.4 13.1 16.1 19.8 25.7 33.1
Z28 2.2 3.0 4.2 5.2 6.6 8.4 10.3 12.7 15.4 18.7 24.5 32.6
Firehawk 2.1 2.9 3.9 5.0 6.3 7.9 9.7 11.9 14.4 17.6 22.1 30.0


Other measured data
Street Start
5-60 (sec) 1/4 mile (sec)
@ (mph) Braking
70-0 (ft) Fade Roadholding Understeer Top Speed
(mph)
911 5.8 13.6 @ 102 156 none 0.89 g moderate 155
Z28 5.7 13.8 @ 104 172 none 0.84 g minimal 158
Firehawk 5.7 13.5 @ 106 160 light 0.88 g* minimal 158

• - This was done on a wet skidpad, and should therefore increase under more ideal conditions.

Analysis:

This one is tricky. This is like being asked to choose between a million dollars in 2 monthly payments or a million dollars in 8 weekly payments. In all three cars, you could start from rest, stand on the gas pedal, and exceed the speed limit of most urban interstates by a factor of two in about 15 seconds.

Looking at the standing start times, the Porsche is quicker to 60, but the F-bodies - even the stock Z28 - pull away from that point. The reason for this lies in the fact that the Porsche is a rear-engined car with 61% of its weight over its rear whee ls, whereas only 44% of the weight is over the rear wheels in the F-bodies. Not only that, but during acceleration, the transfer of weight from the front to the rear (the simple consequence of Newton's Third Law) adds to the beneficial weight bias of the Porsche.

Taking the weight-bias advantage away is easy. C&D regularly performs tests that times acceleration runs where wheelspin and traction are not issues - 5-60 times. This shows the true character of the marriage of the gearbox to the engine. In this c ase, the Porsche is shown to be slightly slower than the F-bodies.

Still, even allowing for the incremental gain of time from the increased starting traction, both F-bodies are considerably quicker at superlegal speeds.

The identical times for the Z28 and the Firehawk are explained by the Ram-Air not being a significant factor contributing to horsepower until speeds beyond 60 mph or so. The faster times below 60 are due to the increased tire-contact patch (275mm's), thus increasing initial traction.

In a stoplight race, the 911 will pull away by a car length or so to 40 mph, but at any other speed/starting combination, the F-bodies will muscle their way ahead.

Winner: F-Bodies, in a photo finish


Comparison Test #3: Intangibles

Your browser may not support display of this image. Unless you regularly answer to "Mr. Gates", "Mr. Rockefeller", your "Your Highness", you probably don't have the luxury of having a new weekend play car and another car to drive to work; Ther efore let's consider the utility of each vehicle. Again, the references are:

1. Porsche 911 Carrera S, C&D, pp 129. v43, #3, (1997)
2. Chevrolet Camaro Z28, C&D, pp 93. v43, #6, (1997)
3. Pontiac Trans Am Firehawk, C&D, pp 69. v43, #9, (1998)



The Objective Data
EPA city (mpg) EPA highway (mpg) Sound Levels: Idle (dba) Full Throttle constant 70 coasting from 70 Front Seat Space (ft³) Back Seat (ft³) Trunk (ft³)
911 17 24 57 82 78 76 43 13 3
Z28 18 27 48 83 73 72 53 29 13
Firehawk 17 26 51 82 74 74 53 31 13

Analysis

From the purely objective point of view, there is no contest. The American cars get better gas mileage (according to the EPA), are quieter under normal cruising while still reminding you that you are in fact driving a muscle car when you tromp on the gas, and are much more useful space-wise than the German counterpart.

For example, the trunk of a Camaro is about the same size as the back seat of the 911. You better be real good friends with whomever you stick in the back of a Porsche. As an illustrative point, my wife and I went shopping for furniture recently, and needed to bring a large chair home from the store. The hatch of the IROC swallowed it whole and away we went. Anything else shy of a pickup-truck would have had to have it delivered. Also note that the dimensions of the interior a re only marginally smaller than a Ford Contour -- a mid-sized family sedan -- and are bigger than a 4-door Acura Integra Sedan.

Also, the gas mileage, I think, is much better than the EPA's test show. At 70 mph, the F-body is only turning 1600 lazy rpms in 6th gear, while the 911 is screaming along at 2600 rpms. It is not uncommon for a person to get 32+ mpg at constant cruis ing speeds with a fuel-injected, LS1 powered 4th generation F-body. (That's better than a small "economy" car (e.g., a Ford Pinto) got in the late 1970's!) We regularly get 28 mpg with our 4 bbl and we don't even have the 6th gear!

A case must be made, however, for the Porsche name. There is an aura of mystique about the very name that makes grownups salivate like they were young kids.

If we let stereo-types rule our judgment of cars, male Camaro owners would pick up denim-wearing, gum smacking, big haired mamas, while male 911 owners would pick up ski-jump nosed, snooty daddy's girls who are very familiar with their plastic surgeons .

Fortunately, these cars are about the driver and not who is with them.

Winner: F-Bodies, in a landslide





Comparison Test #4: 0-150-0 (Coming soon...)

Car & Driver recently did a comparison test between a stock 1998 Camaro Z28 SS and the new 1999 Porsche 911 for the ``new'' performance standard: 0 mph - 150 mph - 0 mph.

Here's a hint: The Z28 SS won by many seconds...


Final Result

Your browser may not support display of this image. Is there really any doubt? If money is very tight, you can order a base Z28 with no options for an invoice price of $19,255. This really isn't a stripper, but includes the V8, a cassette deck, A BS, and the 6-speed manual. (Source: Edmunds Online.) For just $1,000 more, you can get the 1LE performance package which adds niceties such as stiffer springs and adjustable shock absorbers.

Those blessed with a little bit of cash can opt out for the WS6 RamAir package on the Firebird or the SS package for the Camaro for about $3,500 -- still remarkably inexpensive for this kind of performance.

If, however, you are a divorced orthodontist going through a mid-life crisis or you happen to be the king of a small, oil-rich Middle Eastern nation and you need the Porsche Name to make you feel more like a man, then please, go ahead and buy th e Porsche.

The rest of us will see you in our rear-view mirror.

America wins, by a score of 2 out of 3

© Copyright, 1998 by Robert R. Hartley. All Rights Reserved. Permission granted to post on an office wall or reference to your webpage, as long as the content of this document is left unmodified.

All pictures, as far as I know, are in the public domain and are stock photos for the vehicles. If this is not the case, please let me know and I will swap them out.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Thursday 4th February 20:40

[Z28fan]

fk ME!!! Thanks for all the extra info 300.

I guess I should have been a little clearer in some of my posting there lol

Currently only interested in the LS1 which means I'm looking at a facelift version... can't be dealing with red or black on this car but other than that open to being persuaded. As far as I am concerned the auto is the only way to go.

Did the Eurospec (ES) ever come with steering wheel controls for the stereo (probably the 1st thing to go if I end up getting one since all my music is mp3/iPod)?

As far as modding goes I'd have to get rid of the ES mirrors asap as they look dreadful (IMO), if it's ES with km/h a good quality dial over-lay would work quite nicely (may still be worthwhile even if in mp/h). Most mods would be cosmetic as 300/325 geegees is plenty for the moment (though a decent exhaust system/CAI would be a must, gotta sound/breathe right). Again if I do end up getting one it could be interesting as a good friend has a ram-air T/A which has pretty much the same mods that I'm talking about, though who's to say that a different cam and chip won't end up finding their way into it <grin>.

I guess that the other main question I forgot about is what rear-end is in the ES cars? If I remember correctly f-bodies went 2.73, 3.23, 3.43, 3.73, 4.10? Now a 4.10 over here would be pointless for the M-way and A-roads and a 2.73 would, I suspect, really hurt the performance on the twisty bits. I know you can buy different internals from just about anyone in the US but that's something I'd really want to avoid.

[300bhp/ton]

I’ve not seen steering wheel mounted controls, but that’s not to say they didn’t on euro spec ones.
 
Swapping out the head unit shouldn’t be a problem, but even the euro’s have a full size (US) stereo, so you’ll either need a plate to make it smaller for a UK one or fit something of similar size.
 
If you can get hold of some US spec door mirrors they should just bolt on in place of the UK ones.
 
The autobox is the 4l60e. It’s a nice box and to be fair one of the better auto’s I’ve used. Not quite the smoothest, but certainly up there with some far more expensive machinery. But it shifts nicely and kicks down easy without being too annoying.
 
There are a few things though, while the box handles the power they don’t like revs. All aftermarket cams will want you to increase the rev limit. So be warned this can cause transmission issue’s. There are solutions, but sadly they can be expensive in the UK.
 
That said there is some preventative actions you can take.
 
1.       Fit a transmission oil cooler
2.       Fit a Trans Go shift kit. Any other make is a waste of time. This should speed up shifts and even give you full manual control if you want, but should make it last.
 
Downside is you’ll need to remove the “Torque management” setting from the ECU as it’ll now cause problems. But this is easily done with tuning software like HP Tuners or EFI Live.
 
 
As for the rear end, auto’s only ever came in two ratio’s:
 
-2.73:1
-and an optional sports gear of 3.23:1
 
6 speed manual cars used a 3.42:1
 
No other ratio’s available from the factory.
 
 
I’ve personally never seen or heard of a euro spec 3.23:1 car, but they may exist.
 
I’ve got the 2.73:1 in mine. It’s quite tall so cruising is almost identical to a stock 6 speeder manual in top. On the motorway it’ll pull 40mph/1000rpm.
 
It has some plus points and down sides. It is important to learn the gearing an speeds. It’ll pull about 54mph in 1st. But if you are going too quick it won’t kit down so you’ll be stuck in 2nd with what feels like lack luster performance.
 
e.g.
 
38mph and you stomp on it, it’ll kick down to 1st and put you at about PEAK torque and likely spin the wheels. Especially in the wet.
 
43mph and you stomp on it and it’ll only kick down to 2nd and be quite low in the revs. Still quick, but nowhere near as fast.
 
 
It’s a similar story at higher speed. 55-60mph and it’ll still feel a little dead. But get it to kick down at 70mph and it’ll fly.
 
Top speed is also achieved in 3rd (around 158mph electronically and rpm limited).
 
 
The tall gearing works well in some places such as B roads as you can lock it down in 2nd, that way you have enough gear and rpm range to top just over 100mph should you want and with the flexible  engine it’s rather good and very smooth.
 
Downside is when crossing a roundabout or on a tighter corner at about 30-35mph. You know it’ll take it a lot faster, but if you press the pedal too hard it’ll kick down to first and likely spin you out. This is an issue with all high powered automatic cars though and where the additional control of a manual really shows itself.
 
 
I’ve not been in a 3.23:1 geared car, but I do know that in a straight line they will accelerate quicker. But the gearing does have deadspots. Having analysed the gearing and speeds for many hours you can see that at common speeds the 3.23:1 gearset has more dead or flat spots than the 2.73:1 gears do. This means you are more likely to find it in the wrong rpms.
 
If you want to change the gears you can. Only bummer is the 2.73 is a Series 2 carrier and not Series 3, so you have to buy a few more bits to fit the shorter gearsets. Not really an issue just a few more $$$.
 
As for what gears to get, it really depends on what you want to achieve and setup. High lift cams will want shorter gearing to make use of the revs more. There is also some debate on whether you should use 4th gear (OD) or not for performance driving.
 
If no, then a set of 3.42:1 would still give you fairly good top speed, even more so if you do ever increase the rpm range (accepting risks with the tranny).
 
3.73:1 is probably the most common swap.
 
And 4.10:1 in the US is also popular, but unless you use OD it’ll limit top speed to around 120mph depending on what rpms you run too.
 
But then that’s the choice between acceleration, revs and top speed with a hint of cruising ability and mpgs.
 
 
But WAIT!!!
 
There is another thing to consider. And that’s a “stall” or replacement torque converter. If you aren’t sure how these work or what they do, I’ll leave it for another post. But essentially it’s how much the engine revs before the propshaft will start spinning.
 
So it allows you to get the engine into a higher rpm for more power, while staying at a lower speed.
 
My advice would be to leave the gearing stock and get a stall first. It should transform how the car drives and give far better control on B roads. If it’s still not enough then look to gearing.
 
The stall I want to get is the 3500rpm street one from Yank Conveters.
 
 
There’s a lot of choice with exhausts and CAI’s, but I’ll wait to post up more about them until you are ready to hear it.

[TheMighty]

If you get one and want to get rid of those ugly Euro-spec mirrors, drop me a line as I'm really wanting to get together as many Euro-spec bits as spares as possible, especially the front numberplate mount. I actually just happen to like the Eurospec mirrors and the ugly rear bumper!

Ours is a 2002 Euro-spec and has got the steering wheel radio controls btw and I'm pretty sure that all the Euro cars are 2.73 rear ends.

Edited by TheMighty on Thursday 4th February 18:05

Edited by TheMighty on Thursday 4th February 18:09

[300bhp/ton]

It's a shame I threw out a euro/uk front number plate panel notso long ago.

However I could be interested in doing something with the mirrors. While I actually like the Euro ones I certainly wouldn't object to US spec ones.

[Vet Guru]

TheMighty said:

Here's some answers off the top of my head -

2) Advantage of buying a US grey import is that you pay import related car tax at £190 a year rather than emmisions related on a Euro-spec which will be going up to £400 and a bit very soon . The other advantage is that when some pillock tts your mirror you don't get Bauer Millett wanting to rape you for £400 when you only need the glass! Plus of course you get US size number plate recesses and can run bike size letters which just looks cooler.



If there's anything else I can help with just shout. I'm sure Lusifer will be along in a bit to impart more wisdom too.

Euro cars came with UK lights if open the engine bay you will see GM made lights just for the UK market! Euro cars supplied in the UK have Thatcham one Alarm as standard, Headlight adjust standard in the centre console better seatbelts than the US spec. Rear fog lights molded into the rear bumper with space for Euro size number plate.
Even the Air con switchs were better in the euro specs.

Tax will not be at the £400 only £190 as this only came in for cars in 2006 onwards-
Also Euro cars will have a UK service history book unlike the US cars so you can see what has been done on the car in the way of service books.
Also UK supplied cars are better to Insure.

[TheMighty]

Vet Guru said:

Euro cars came with UK lights if open the engine bay you will see GM made lights just for the UK market! Euro cars supplied in the UK have Thatcham one Alarm as standard, Headlight adjust standard in the centre console better seatbelts than the US spec. Rear fog lights molded into the rear bumper with space for Euro size number plate.
Even the Air con switchs were better in the euro specs.

Wierd that you mention alarms. Our Euro-spec is a UK car(and yes has UK headlights) which as far as we know came from Bauer Millett originally. As far as I can see there's no alarm fitted and I haven't a key fob although I have two keys etc etc. I have seen other Euro-spec cars the same with just a key and no fob, but you've now made me wonder if when I take the battery off to do some work in a few weeks the car will immobilise itself and I'll have no way to disable the alarm. Any ideas where the alarm is fitted and how to recognise if its there or not? I've had some work done on the car already which I would have thought meant removing the battery but you never know...

[LuS1fer]

I think all your questions have been answered but to underline a few points:

1. The 1998 LS1 has a different computer to the 99-on so can't be tuned as there's nothing available.
2. The 1998 also had an electronic EGR valve which they dropped on later models which got the LS6 manifold.
3. The Euro-cars had a choice of T-top or non T-top and the top spec models used the leather Pontiac seats which are way better than the cloth Camaro offerings and better-shaped. May also have the boot-mounted 12-CD changer which is useful as it pre-dates MP3 jacks.
4. I ditched the horrid Euro-mount fixing at the front, bought a mesh grille and put a smaller plate on.

Here is the anorak's guide to the LS1-engined cars I stole some time ago. Note that these mean American model year which runs from about October the previous year so yes, you can get a 1997 1998!

1998
1. Had different casting heads which had perimeter bolts and valve covers.
2. Ignition coils were mounted to the valve covers individually.
3. The water temp gauge actually works.
4. Only LS1 year to not have an oil life monitor
5. WS6s had single outlet exhaust (all others had duals) (not in Europe)
6. Steering wheel controls were completely different part with indentations on the buttons, and were better built
7. Only year that Purple, Gold, and Green were available
8. Some very early Trans-Ams came with LT1 style headrests
9. Rear hatch release was poorly designed and often caused problems releasing mechanism
10. Early model 98 Monsoon stereos didn’t have capability to control 12-disc CD changer
11. 1998-1999 automatic transmission LS1s could be started in 1st gear even with the shifter in 2nd. Starting 2000, if you put the shifter in 2, it would start off in 2, even from a stop.
12. 1998-1999 LS1 cars had a smaller throttle body cam, which caused the throttle to open to WOT faster than 2000+ cars
13. 1998 cars had 28 lb fuel injectors from the factory
14. 1998-2000 cars had a larger cam than the 01-02 cars
15. 1998-1999 cars had more restrictive exhaust manifolds
16. 1998-2000 cars had an LS1 intake with EGR
17. 1998 and some early 1999 cars had blue outside rear view mirrors (Trans Am only)
18. 1998 only LS1 blocks had a much smaller cylinder sleeve that only tolerated a .005" hone
19. Last year F-body to use the old 15.5 gallon fuel tank.
20. Only year LS1 F-body to contain a gas cap with a tether long enough to actually hang from the fuel door while open
21. Only year LS1 F-body to not contain the famous GM black box used in the event of an accident to record up to 5 seconds of pre-crash data
22. 1998 only cars had a different PCV system with the PCV valve located above the passenger side valve cover
23. 1998 only cars did not have an idle adjustment screw on the throttle body
24. 1998 cars have a completely different PCM from 99+ cars
25. A production shortage of F-body cams caused the use of a C5 cam to be installed in F-body LS1s for a very short time

1999
1. 1999-2000 cars switched to 26 lb fuel injectors
2. Cylinder heads and valve covers redesigned to have centre bolts instead of perimeter bolts. Other than that, the heads were the same.
3. Redesigned cylinder sleeves that allowed for a small bore, up from .005" in 1998 models.
4. Midyear model change to a cheaper steering wheel audio control button without finger indentations, and cheaper built
5. 1999 cars continued the LS1 intake with EGR provisions
6. 1999 cars continued more restrictive exhaust manifolds and larger cam
7. Only year that Hugger Orange was available (Camaro only)
8. 30th Anniversary Trans Am available with special blue and white paint package and blue clear coated WS6 wheels
9. Switch to larger 16.8 gallon fuel tank to meet new emissions requirements.
10. Gas cap tether was shorter and could no longer be used to hang on the gas door when open.
11. Company wide change added black boxes to record up to 5 seconds of data before a crash
12. Rear hatch release was redesigned with stiffer spring that released the hatch better
13. Water temp gauge was redesigned to work basically as a dummy gauge and only show an overheat condition.
14. An oil life monitor was added to all LS1s, thus changing the gauge cluster a little to show the oil life reset swtich
15. 1999-02 cars had a different PCV system with the valve located to the side of the intake manifold
16. Early production 1999 Trans-Ams still had the blue outside mirrors, but a midyear change went to the non-tinted ones

2000
1. Redesigned exhaust manifolds for new emissions standard actually flowed better and created a little more HP.
2. 2000 continued use of LS1 Intake, EGR, smaller cam, and 26 lb fuel injectors
3. Added rear child seat safety hooks to interior per federal requirements
4. Very early run of WS6s had "salad shooter" style rims. A production change switched back to standard 5-spoke WS6 rims.
5. Camaros got redesigned 10-spoke base rims, and SSs came with new 10-spoke rim design
6. First year of Monterey Maple Metallic paint
7. Charcoal (greyish) interior was replaced with Ebony (almost black) leather interior
8. Cloth interior cars got new rainbow coloured cloth patterns
9. Camaros only got the Pontiac steering wheel with optional audio controls
10. Throttle body cam was increased in size to slow the speed at which the car reaches WOT
11. Automatic transmission cars were reprogrammed to allow a car to start off in 2nd gear from a stop when the shift lever is put into 2.
12. The last year a WS6 Formula was offered
13. Starting 2000 intake lids contained a separate breather filter

2001
1. A small percentage of 2001 and 2002 LS1s actually had LS6 blocks which had a different part number and a darker metal cast
2. Starting 2001 model year, all LS1s came with an LS6 intake manifold without an EGR system
3. Advertised HP output was changed from 305 to 310 on base LS1s and from 320 to 325 on WS6s and SSs
4. 2001-02 cars have a smaller cam from the Vortec truck engines to increase low end torque
5. 2001-02 cars had 28 lb fuel injectors like the 98 cars (albeit different part numbers)
6. WS6 cars had a redesigned 5 spoke rim which was more wavy
7. WS6 cars got less suspension upgrades from a base Trans Am suspension than previous years
8. Manual transmission cars all came with the Z06 clutch

2002 - Last year of the F-body

1. 35th Anniversary edition of the Camaro, and Collectors Edition Trans Am available
2. 2002 LS1 head gaskets redesigned. The new ones are a pressed metal, as opposed to the graphite ones and are no longer specific to the side of the car they’re installed on
3. 2002 cars continued with the LS6 intake, 28 lb fuel injectors and smaller truck cam
4. 2002 continued the use of an LS6 block in some LS1 F-bodies
5. A factory supported optional 345 HP option could be ordered from SLP
6. Manual transmission cars continued use of the Z06 clutch
7. Some 2002 model F-bodies came with a revised rear view mirror that had the map light buttons on the bottom, rather than the front.

[LuS1fer]

Oh and the obligaory "proof of power"

[Z28fan]

Once again you guys have done me proud - loads of stuff to look through which is specific to the UK market (and that's something that LS1tech and Z28.com can't really help with). Will hopefully be getting a test drive of one tomorrow and truth be told it's really the one that ticks all the boxes (colour and some of the mods I've been talking about)... will let you all know how things go (mind you it THEN all depends on Mrs Z28 liking it.....)

as far as mods go I have seen a pic of LU51's 'maro (in fact I'm pretty sure I saw it a Billing a number of years ago) and loved the grille at the fron together with the UK # plate, though I'd be tempted to run without one like I used to do on my old 3rd gen, which incidentaly was where I was remembering most of my rear axle stuff from.

I was totally unaware of the 98 LS1 being so different from the following ones - I suppose the question there is this, is that a

1998 model year - ie a 1997 Camaro
1998 engine as above
1998 engine in a 1998 car
or even a 1998 engine in a E/S 1999 Camaro?
On the tuning side does CAI and/or exhaust count as tuning or is that one of the things that can be done regardless of LS type?

Is there any way to check which engine it is? Though again in fairness at about 300bhp I'm not going to be too worried if I can't do too much to it lol


Again I guess to be brutally honest if tomorrow's one doesn't work out for whatever reason there's always the show season coming up with (normally!!) a fair few cars for sale

[300bhp/ton]

Z28fan said:

I was totally unaware of the 98 LS1 being so different from the following ones - I suppose the question there is this, is that a

1998 model year - ie a 1997 Camaro
1998 engine as above
1998 engine in a 1998 car
or even a 1998 engine in a E/S 1999 Camaro?

Z28fan said:

Is there any way to check which engine it is? Though again in fairness at about 300bhp I'm not going to be too worried if I can't do too much to it lol

The only time it gets confusing is the US model years run slightly out of line with actual years.

So a "98 model year" would have been available in 1997. A bit like the new 2011 5.0 litre Mustang will actually be available in a few months.

For us it gets doubly confusing as we then have registration years. As a rule the Camaro was a slow seller, so in the case of mine its a 99 model year but wasn't sold and registered until 2000. However you may be very lucky to find a 2000 reg Camaro but is actually a 2001 model year.

Overall I simply wouldn't worry about it. The 1998 model year while different isn't such an issue. You can do almost all the bolt on mods without needing a tune, its only when you start swapping cams that you'll need to do something. And I'm pretty sure there are some ways to tune them. If not there are still other options available.

Essentially I wouldn't let the fact that it's a 98 model year put you off.

Easiest way to find out the model year is to check the VIN number. It should be visible at the bottom of the windscreen.

internet said:

Vehicle Identification Number Example: 2G1FP22P1P2100001
First Digit Nation of Origin: 1=USA, 2=Canada
Second Digit Division: G=General Motors
Third Digit: 1=Chevrolet
Fourth Digit: F=All models
Fifth Digit Model: P=Camaro Coupe or Z28
Six & Seven Digits Body Style: 22=Coupe, 32=Convertible
Eigth Digit Engine: See Engine Codes Below
Ninth Digit is Check digit
Tenth Digit Year: P=93, R=94, S=95, T=96, V=97, W=98, X=99, Y=00, 1=01, 2=02
Eleventh Digit: 2=All models
Last Six Digits increase by one with each car built at each plant

Z28fan said:

On the tuning side does CAI and/or exhaust count as tuning or is that one of the things that can be done regardless of LS type?

Yes it counts as tuning, but it can be done regardless. Most American cars run rich in stock tune, so you can add CAI, headers, exhaust and other stuff and still remain safe. A proper dyno tune can improve how it drives and find a few more hp though, but its not a requirement.


If you are looking for CAI's you can spend loads and gain little. The proven method is just an airbox lid. SLP, TSP and others sell them.

This is a larger volume lid to the airbox and removes the baffles and silencers. It should cost around $70-90

Stock paper air filter is good for around 500hp, but there's a k&n drop in if you want.

The k&n fancy air filter and kit is very expensive and generally performs no better than a lid and often claimed worse for heat soak.

If you want Ram Air look into a FTRA (Fast Toys Ram Air). SLP do something similar but it's missing half the ducting. If you want to run a tranny oil cooler you'll have to be creative to get it all to fit.

Oh, and don't spend silly money on a "smooth" bellows. It does nowt for HP and if you really want one just order a bit of silicon tube from somewhere like Demon Tweeks. It's exactly the same thing but will cost you around a tenner instead of $50+

Porting your stock TB will show gains and if its a pre 2001 model LS1 then an LS6 type intake manifold or better is the way to go.

Combine this with some long tube headers (shorties or mid length are a waste of money for n/a and do next to nothing for power gains) and a descent mid pipe and catback and you should have a descent hike in HP. Probably topping 400bhp flywheel.

[LuS1fer]

The LS1 is straightforward, it's the peanut-shaped headlamp model. All LT1s are the earlier design.

The European Z28s were actually only rated at 284bhp and had a slightly different computer. However, the restriction was what was effectively a European "V6" single exhaust with a huge rear transverse silencer and single rear outlet that was tucked under the rear valance.
Reason? European noise level legislation.

I would be very surprised if all these haven't been binned in favour of a 2.5" bigger bore and less restrictive silencer system.

The test above (done on early 98's) showed that the output was a lot more than was claimed and in fact, later TAs and SS's (rated at 320hp)were dynoed at 315-320hp at the rear wheels suggesting a full-fat 350hp car. They lied to distance the car from the Corvette and not prejudice Corvette sales as the Z28 is around 1600kg compared to around 1400 for the Vette.

Though I never dynoed mine, it would run 13.8 @ 105 all day at Shakspeare dragway which is consistent with well over 300hp and even then, the lmitation was traction. US cars ran similar times and only manuals with the shorter ratio ran nearer 13.6.

The limitation on these cars is the exhaust. Certainly the '98 had a single cat, not sure about the later ones so a high-flow pair of cats is a possibility but even widening the pipe, it's still a single pipe to the back and there is no room over the axle for anything but a single pipe. I ran Loudmouth replicas with an open "bullet" silencer before the axle and nothing after it and it still wasn't excessively loud. Ground clearance can be a problem if you lower it (as you should).

In my view, the limitation of the 4th gen Z28 is not the power but deploying it. The chassis is more flexible than your credit card with T-tops (and probably without as I think the roof wasn't particularly structural) so jacking it at one corner will cause that corner to lift leaving the others on the floor. Fitting a set of subframe connectors makes the car much stiffer but of course adds weight, though it cures the back end wag. Similarly, a stiff torque arm (alongside the drive shaft) but I never got round to that and a strut top brace is a must and really does make a difference.

One thing worth noting is that a lot of Euro Z8s came on 16" wheels and an SS or WS6 will give you 17s with a wider choice of tyres (16s are very limited now and new wheels are expensive). I fitted 18" wheels on mine. Many Euro cars also came with chrome wheels which pit, flake and corrode like mo-fos on the inner rim (outside always have thicker chrome) so check them carefully as you can't strip chrome in the UK so they can be scrap. Some wheel specialists will paint over chrome but won't warrant it.

The only things that ever went wrong with mine were the EGR valve (deleted on later models) and the power steering rack began to weep 9fixed with an additive). Oh and be careful if you ever want to get the ECU out because it's under the hood and the first bolt will shear the head off and then you have to decide if the second is worth the risk.

These were my mods:
Modifications:

ENGINE – 5.7 LITRE LS1
K&N FIPK Induction with modified drilled base plate
SLP Air Temperature Module
SLP Manual Fan Switch
Ported MAF ends
BMR Throttle By-Pass
EGR mod
Loudmouth cat-back replica stainless steel exhaust with 3" rolled tips.

CHASSIS & SUSPENSION
Bilstein BTS lowering springs and dampers
BMR tubular subframe connectors
BMR chrome-moly lower control arms/poly bushings
BMR chrome-moly adjustable panhard bar/poly bushings
BMR relocation brackets
BMR tunnel brace (removed as it scraped every speed hump)
BMR strut brace

BRAKES
Powerslot grooved brake rotors front & rear with Hawk performance pads.

WHEELS/TYRES
Boyd Coddington Smoothie II 18 x 9's
Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 275/35x18

APPEARANCE
Silver Anniversary Stripes
Clear Corner Lenses
Grillecraft mesh grille
MBA billet pedals
MBA gearknob
MBA polished rear 'CAMARO' inserts
Mastach Z06 style Z28 badges.

The drag strip time barely varied from start to finish though - again down to traction.

I would echo the TC criticism too.

Check your car at the bottom of the wings where the plastic wing bolts to the frame with two bolts. People often jack here and bend and break these fittings. Don't forget it's all plastic bar the bonnet and rear wings.

Oh and I had an aftermarket alarm on my Euro Z28 which packed in.

[300bhp/ton]

LuS1fer said:

The European Z28s were actually only rated at 284bhp and had a slightly different computer.

I've often wondered about this. As I said earlier I've seen loads of different info.

The ECU/PCM isn't different, just a slightly different tune I believe.

As for the HP I'm sure I've got a sales brouchure which says 295bhp.

The only place I really know that said 288bhp was the Autocar article.

However I made a discovery yesterday which I wonder if it answers it.

In 1996 the Camaro got a mild power hike due to OBDII changes taking it from 275 to 285bhp SAE Net.

Now I wonder if Autocar took this figure instead of the LS1 claimed HP. For some strange reason Autocar tend to convert SAE Net figures to DIN or even metric PS, although they still usually only report "bhp".

288PS would be about right for a car rated at 285bhp SAE Net.

When the Challenger came out with 425hp Autocar consistently quoted it at 419bhp DIN. They did the same with the s197 Mustang too.

LuS1fer said:

However, the restriction was what was effectively a European "V6" single exhaust with a huge rear transverse silencer and single rear outlet that was tucked under the rear valance.
Reason? European noise level legislation.

Yep have heard and been told that too.

But as said mine had twin cats, and stock z28 dual outlet exhaust. So I'm not 100% if the V6 exhaust thing is really true, or at least true on all model years.

LuS1fer said:

The limitation on these cars is the exhaust. Certainly the '98 had a single cat, not sure about the later ones so a high-flow pair of cats is a possibility but even widening the pipe, it's still a single pipe to the back and there is no room over the axle for anything but a single pipe.

There are some dual kits available. I think Texas Speed and Performance sell one.

Some go under the axle, but others go over in a couple of different setups.

LuS1fer said:

The chassis is more flexible than your credit card with T-tops (and probably without as I think the roof wasn't particularly structural)

I'm not so certain. I've followed some guys racing these in the US with some success. They report the chassis is actually pretty darn good.

As for the T-top, its actually the other way round. The centre roof brace is the main structure of the car. A full convertible is very different and no where near as good.

Oddly though the "full coupe" actually isn't any stronger. That's because it's a T-top chassis with a plastic roof. Sure it has two extra metal bars above each door, but they are purely for attaching the roof edges and are not structural.

LuS1fer said:

Many Euro cars also came with chrome wheels which pit, flake and corrode like mo-fos on the inner rim (outside always have thicker chrome) so check them carefully as you can't strip chrome in the UK so they can be scrap.

I've got chrome ones on mine. I don't mind the look, but they are a bigger. Where the chrome has flaked and peeled results in slow air leaks.

It's not a major pita, but it does mean ever 4-6 weeks you need to put some air in the tyres.

[LuS1fer]

As I've said, if you jack the front wheel, the other wheels stay on the ground. With subframe connectors, jacking one side will lift both front and rear wheels. The convertible is not entirely a dead loss as it has additional strengthening in the floor and requires different SFCs.

It was also said that if you drag raced in anger, if you didn't strengthen the chassis with SFC's the chassis would actually twist slightly within 30000 miles. The drag racers in the US that make these cars go quickly usually have a much stronger torque arm at the very least to make them run in the 12's although even they are limited by the gearbox mounting. Some use an alternative frame mounting.

You have to bear in mind that every time the engine twists the chassis, it's absorbing some of that hp instead of going to the rear wheels.

Not sure about the hp argument. I imagine Autocar used the Press blurb as they had no reason to know about the 1997 car as it was never sold here officially. Of course, given GM's incompetence, it's not beyond possibility that GM Europe got it wrong and the Autocar article did make it clear that some horses had disappeared.

[300bhp/ton]

No worries LuS1fer

Didn't mean to dispute what you'd said as I know you have a wealth of experience with these.

[TheMighty]

On the exhaust front I've got true duals which run "shotgun style" just up into the trans tunnel and then side by side over the axle. Yes it is very tight and it results in the occasional CLANG but definitely worth the obvious difference in midrange torque it provided. And its actually quieter now than it used to be on the single centre pipe with four outlets.

Anyone got any further knowledge on the factory UK thatcham alarm situation then? Spoke to a few people with Euro-Spec cars in the last few hours and none seem to have the alarm. Lets hope when I take the battery off....

Edited by TheMighty on Friday 5th February 20:00

[LuS1fer]

My alarm was a Sigma, from memory and operated the remote locking. It packed in and I never dod get round to fixing it.