New Camaro confusion
Discussion
Over the last week,i have been doing some delving in to aquireing the new Camaro.
I have seen three dealers in the U.K offering to take orders on them,with base prices ranging from £23,000-£30,000. No mention of pricing on the SS model or date of delivery.
Checking on some extracts from G.M,s website,and G.M,s ceo cant even confirm when production will start. So how can dealers take deposits on a car that doesnt exist,or if it will be made. I had this same problem some years ago with Jaguar. I put a deposit down on the F type,only to have it returned 12 months later,as the project was shelved in favour of the X type.
I do hope this is not going to go the same way,as i think this is such a stunning car.
I have seen three dealers in the U.K offering to take orders on them,with base prices ranging from £23,000-£30,000. No mention of pricing on the SS model or date of delivery.
Checking on some extracts from G.M,s website,and G.M,s ceo cant even confirm when production will start. So how can dealers take deposits on a car that doesnt exist,or if it will be made. I had this same problem some years ago with Jaguar. I put a deposit down on the F type,only to have it returned 12 months later,as the project was shelved in favour of the X type.
I do hope this is not going to go the same way,as i think this is such a stunning car.
ringram said:
If you look in a few US forums you will see there is already quite a few made. Whether "you" can be given a build date is another story, but there is a good stack already built.
Hang in there.
Which one are you after? An SS? Auto or Manual?
An SS manual. Have you got a link to the U.S forums?.Hang in there.
Which one are you after? An SS? Auto or Manual?
EuroCamaro said:
go to http://www.camaro5.com/forums/ for all the up to date information
Thanks for the link
Hi, the 2010 Camaro's have been built and are now being distributed to the dealers Stateside, photo's are now available of the deliveries actually happening. Some of you may have seen the inter-active map showing the spec's of the cars and where those actual cars have been delivered. We, (American Car Imports in London), have all the ordering information available, spec's options etc and will be happy to help anyone interested in obtaining one of these new Camaro's.
Had a good sit in several at the NY Auto Show this week and dealers are taking orders, build started about a month ago I think. There is an updated website configurator (?) on the Camaro website and the options are showing up correctly now (there was lots of confusion between factory vs dealer options - sounds petty but I was not going to order cyber gray rally stripes thinking they're a factory option only to get single stripes applied badly at the dealer etc). The Orange Interior Trim package is naff too so I will not look for that now either.
So I think I will order Inferno Orange, SS LT with RS package and Rally Stripes, all for $36k over here. What do you think?
So I think I will order Inferno Orange, SS LT with RS package and Rally Stripes, all for $36k over here. What do you think?
mrobin33 said:
Had a good sit in several at the NY Auto Show this week and dealers are taking orders, build started about a month ago I think. There is an updated website configurator (?) on the Camaro website and the options are showing up correctly now (there was lots of confusion between factory vs dealer options - sounds petty but I was not going to order cyber gray rally stripes thinking they're a factory option only to get single stripes applied badly at the dealer etc). The Orange Interior Trim package is naff too so I will not look for that now either.
So I think I will order Inferno Orange, SS LT with RS package and Rally Stripes, all for $36k over here. What do you think?
$36k sounds good. From what i understand now. U.K dealers are going to charge between £35-£40.000?.So I think I will order Inferno Orange, SS LT with RS package and Rally Stripes, all for $36k over here. What do you think?
Assume for a second your car can be bought at $36,000, to get it into the UK, you have to do the following:- Pay the US sales tax, pay to transport it to the US port, pay to ship the car, pay for marine insurance, pay the UK port and clearance charges and then 26% import duty and vat on top of the shipped insured value, i.e. on top of all those component costs plus the price of the car, at $1.48 to £1 that is the cost of the car before you transport it from the UK port, prepare it for IVA, (SVA is no more!)a much more rigorous and detailed test, then register it. Your car is registered as "an import" and you have no warranty. Why go to all that trouble when a specialist import dealer can register the car "as new" and give you a 3 year warranty, and as cars are bought by dealers trade not retail if you work it all out properly you won't have paid any more.
americancar said:
Assume for a second your car can be bought at $36,000, to get it into the UK, you have to do the following:- Pay the US sales tax, pay to transport it to the US port, pay to ship the car, pay for marine insurance, pay the UK port and clearance charges and then 26% import duty and vat on top of the shipped insured value, i.e. on top of all those component costs plus the price of the car, at $1.48 to £1 that is the cost of the car before you transport it from the UK port, prepare it for IVA, (SVA is no more!)a much more rigorous and detailed test, then register it. Your car is registered as "an import" and you have no warranty. Why go to all that trouble when a specialist import dealer can register the car "as new" and give you a 3 year warranty, and as cars are bought by dealers trade not retail if you work it all out properly you won't have paid any more.
Because I live in the US - no intent to take it to the UK for about five years at which point it's value will be fine for VAT and import duty etc (like I did with my C5).Import duty is 10% which is added to the invoice cost and then you pay 15% VAT on everything. That may not be clear from the 24% figure cited above which I take to be an overall percentage. Needless to say, if you pay the marine insurance separately, you won't be paying anything on top of it.
It's also rubbish to suggest you'll pay the same from a dealer as you'll pay importing yourself. I imported a C5 Z06 which cost $35000 and it panned out at £27000 on the road at 1.7 to the £. The warranty you get is also a generic warranty you can buy yourself and not a GM warranty which is not effective outside of the USA unless the importer is going to honour it in which case you'll pay for it one way or another.
It's also rubbish to suggest you'll pay the same from a dealer as you'll pay importing yourself. I imported a C5 Z06 which cost $35000 and it panned out at £27000 on the road at 1.7 to the £. The warranty you get is also a generic warranty you can buy yourself and not a GM warranty which is not effective outside of the USA unless the importer is going to honour it in which case you'll pay for it one way or another.
Edited by LuS1fer on Saturday 18th April 09:21
The facts are:- all import costs have to be declared to customs including marine insurance, unless you want to run the risk of defrauding customs, something you should not be suggesting to readers of these posts. The tax figure equates to 26%, import duty is compounded onto the shipped insured value and vat at 15% is charged on top of that. Any new, hot or desirable car cannot be bought cheaply, as Top Gear will testify, they paid $10,000 over list for their Challenger, as i am sure you saw on the programme, the same will be with the Camaro it simply cannot be bought by non us residents without paying the sales tax and registering the car locally and without paying the local market price adjustments, so i am afraid the msrp becomes meaningless, this will change but not for some time after the car has been on the market. The warranty we offer is exclusive to us, it is not generic and cannot be bought by a private individual, any geniune enquirer is welcome to have the full details. An LS starts at £25,000 and an SS starts at £32,000, registered new in the UK, (not registered as an import as it would be if you could do it yourself) and with 3-years warranty. With this in mind who would want the hassle of trying to do it themselves?
That's the way it is, don't take my word for it, go and try it yourself - you will find it impossible, the American dealers are not allowed to sell cars for export, they are in breach of their franchise agreements if they do, so the cars have to be sold locally, sales tax paid and cars registered locally. Introduce me to a US dealer who is prepared to take the risk, especially with the new Camaro - i would love to meet him. As a private individual you might be the best wheeler dealer/negotiator in the world but you are still not able to buy cars through the same route as a genuine car dealer.
americancar said:
That's the way it is, don't take my word for it, go and try it yourself - you will find it impossible, the American dealers are not allowed to sell cars for export, they are in breach of their franchise agreements if they do, so the cars have to be sold locally, sales tax paid and cars registered locally. Introduce me to a US dealer who is prepared to take the risk, especially with the new Camaro - i would love to meet him. As a private individual you might be the best wheeler dealer/negotiator in the world but you are still not able to buy cars through the same route as a genuine car dealer.
As I say I'm just curious. So how do you get them without them being registered in the States first?Fair enough. You do it your way and I'll do it mine. I am aware that American dealers like to charge over the odds but with GM in desperate straits, it may be that may change (but equally may not). We've had several Mustangs exported here by helpful dealers, they're not all running scared but as you say, scabbing by the dealer is commonplace but getting a car at MSRP isn't unknown. However, as you point out, there are many benefits from buying from an importer if you don't want the hassle.
americancar said:
The facts are:- all import costs have to be declared to customs including marine insurance, unless you want to run the risk of defrauding customs, something you should not be suggesting to readers of these posts. The tax figure equates to 26%, import duty is compounded onto the shipped insured value and vat at 15% is charged on top of that. Any new, hot or desirable car cannot be bought cheaply, as Top Gear will testify, they paid $10,000 over list for their Challenger, as i am sure you saw on the programme, the same will be with the Camaro it simply cannot be bought by non us residents without paying the sales tax and registering the car locally and without paying the local market price adjustments, so i am afraid the msrp becomes meaningless, this will change but not for some time after the car has been on the market. The warranty we offer is exclusive to us, it is not generic and cannot be bought by a private individual, any geniune enquirer is welcome to have the full details. An LS starts at £25,000 and an SS starts at £32,000, registered new in the UK, (not registered as an import as it would be if you could do it yourself) and with 3-years warranty. With this in mind who would want the hassle of trying to do it themselves?
As a dealer you would say that wouldn't you? You may well be right but these forums (fora actually) are intended for enthusiasts to share information and knowledge. If you do that and happen to be a dealer then fine, but you are pushing a commercial perspective that suits you. Camaros are going for list price now - I spoke face to face with my dealer two weeks ago - and when it comes to putting pen to paper I even think I may get a bit off (which is what happens if the discussion starts at list). Last year I bought a Corvette in California and they were happy to title the car for me even though I am not resident of California but NJ instead. I got an out of state registration waiver from California DMV that enabled me to drive across the States without any registration. I did have to pay sales tax.
However there is no reason why you should not go to Oregon or one of the other non taxing states (there are several), ship it from there or get an out of state registration permit and drive to the most convenient port (or like me just drive Route 66 on the way home).
Edited by mrobin33 on Sunday 19th April 04:22
Why is this even an argument?
Of course, you can do it yourself and save some money. I've imported 2 trucks myself with no problems.
I, like many others, did all the work myself. Arranged the money transfer, arranged flights, flew to thee USA, visited the dealer, arranged a shipping agent, arranged transport to the port, flew back to the UK, collected the truck from this end in the UK, paid the fees, transported the truck home, arranged insurance on the VIN, converted the lights myself, booked and took it to the (then SVA), took the paperwork to the local DVLA office, received the paperwork, changed the insurance to the UK reg, went to the Post Office and got the Road Tax, went to Halfords with the paperwork, passport and utility bill to buy the numberplates, went home and screwed the plates on and finally, went cruisin' - job done
Now, none of that was a problem for me and yes, I saved a few grand. Other people? They wouldn't have the first clue where to start or even have the time or inclination to do all that themselves. They want a "turn key" type of deal. Do they pay more overall? Well yes, of course they do. For the convenience of somebody else doing all the work, they pay a dealer mark up, which is how he makes his living.
Is the Dealer wrong to do this or ripping people off? No, of course not. That's how business works.
You pays your money and takes your choice
Of course, you can do it yourself and save some money. I've imported 2 trucks myself with no problems.
I, like many others, did all the work myself. Arranged the money transfer, arranged flights, flew to thee USA, visited the dealer, arranged a shipping agent, arranged transport to the port, flew back to the UK, collected the truck from this end in the UK, paid the fees, transported the truck home, arranged insurance on the VIN, converted the lights myself, booked and took it to the (then SVA), took the paperwork to the local DVLA office, received the paperwork, changed the insurance to the UK reg, went to the Post Office and got the Road Tax, went to Halfords with the paperwork, passport and utility bill to buy the numberplates, went home and screwed the plates on and finally, went cruisin' - job done
Now, none of that was a problem for me and yes, I saved a few grand. Other people? They wouldn't have the first clue where to start or even have the time or inclination to do all that themselves. They want a "turn key" type of deal. Do they pay more overall? Well yes, of course they do. For the convenience of somebody else doing all the work, they pay a dealer mark up, which is how he makes his living.
Is the Dealer wrong to do this or ripping people off? No, of course not. That's how business works.
You pays your money and takes your choice
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