LS1 Camaro questions
Discussion
Hi guys, I'm slowly getting acquainted with my car and so far and have a couple of things I'd like to ask my fellow owners.
Mine is an auto model and I'm finding that sometimes it just won't kickdown into 1st gear. It will if I'm moving pretty slow, but when I try at around 30mph it only seems to drop down to 2nd. Other cars I've driven seem to kickdown to 1st at this speed. Anyone know the cutoff point/speed for a 1st gear kickdown? Also, is it anything to do with which of the Drive positions I choose? So far I've only tried the first one you come to as you move down the shifter. There is another 'D' straight after it, though I'm not sure of the difference.
Secondly, when the car takes up gear I sometimes hear (and feel) a slight 'clunk'. I'm sure I've had this before with auto's...propshaft? Do I need to worry or rush to get anything fixed?
Cheers.
Mine is an auto model and I'm finding that sometimes it just won't kickdown into 1st gear. It will if I'm moving pretty slow, but when I try at around 30mph it only seems to drop down to 2nd. Other cars I've driven seem to kickdown to 1st at this speed. Anyone know the cutoff point/speed for a 1st gear kickdown? Also, is it anything to do with which of the Drive positions I choose? So far I've only tried the first one you come to as you move down the shifter. There is another 'D' straight after it, though I'm not sure of the difference.
Secondly, when the car takes up gear I sometimes hear (and feel) a slight 'clunk'. I'm sure I've had this before with auto's...propshaft? Do I need to worry or rush to get anything fixed?
Cheers.
Ours will kick down to 1st at an alarming speed, so much so that I avoid slapping the throttle wide open if I'm travelling anywhere between 30 and 45 as the car will drop to first and scream its arse off all too quickly and I'd rather not redline it when I don't need to.
According to the owners manual hitting half throttle will cause a kick-down to second when travelling up to 35 MPH so I would guess this infers that hitting full throttle will make it kick down to first. Anything above this speed and you'll need to hit the full throttle to kick down 1 or 2 gears depending whether you're in 3rd or 4th. At full throttle the car may kick-down into 2nd at anywhere up to about 60mph.
"(D)" gives you the overdriven 4th gear whereas "D" does not.
The "clunk" is probably the back axle taking up a bit of slack. It seems this is the "weak link" with all 4th gen Camaro's. Ours does it a little and others I've seen or heard of do it to a more or lesser extent. Those that have had real axle issues always seem to report a real bad whine or rumble before anything goes seriously pearshaped.
According to the owners manual hitting half throttle will cause a kick-down to second when travelling up to 35 MPH so I would guess this infers that hitting full throttle will make it kick down to first. Anything above this speed and you'll need to hit the full throttle to kick down 1 or 2 gears depending whether you're in 3rd or 4th. At full throttle the car may kick-down into 2nd at anywhere up to about 60mph.
"(D)" gives you the overdriven 4th gear whereas "D" does not.
The "clunk" is probably the back axle taking up a bit of slack. It seems this is the "weak link" with all 4th gen Camaro's. Ours does it a little and others I've seen or heard of do it to a more or lesser extent. Those that have had real axle issues always seem to report a real bad whine or rumble before anything goes seriously pearshaped.
Edited by TheMighty on Tuesday 24th June 18:58
TheMighty said:
Ours will kick down to 1st at an alarming speed, so much so that I avoid slapping the throttle wide open if I'm travelling anywhere between 30 and 45 as the car will drop to first and scream its arse off all too quickly and I'd rather not redline it when I don't need to.
According to the owners manual hitting half throttle will cause a kick-down to second when travelling up to 35 MPH so I would guess this infers that hitting full throttle will make it kick down to first. Anything above this speed and you'll need to hit the full throttle to kick down 1 or 2 gears depending whether you're in 3rd or 4th. At full throttle the car may kick-down into 2nd at anywhere up to about 60mph.
"(D)" gives you the overdriven 4th gear whereas "D" does not.
Thanks for that. I'll try mine again later this evening when the roads are a tad quieter, though I'm sure it won't kickdown into 1st at anywhere near 45mph. Should have the same transmission as yours and the fluid level looks fine, so maybe it's something to do with how the ECU has been programmed.According to the owners manual hitting half throttle will cause a kick-down to second when travelling up to 35 MPH so I would guess this infers that hitting full throttle will make it kick down to first. Anything above this speed and you'll need to hit the full throttle to kick down 1 or 2 gears depending whether you're in 3rd or 4th. At full throttle the car may kick-down into 2nd at anywhere up to about 60mph.
"(D)" gives you the overdriven 4th gear whereas "D" does not.
By the way, don't get me wrong...I'm not a total speed freak wanting to scream down every street I come to, but it's nice to know it will do it if you want it to!
I don't really think ours will kick-down there at 45.... but I'm being extra careful because I know it will at just short of 40 and believe me it revs its nuts off, and I'd rather keep the insidey bits INSIDE!
I think we're running a standard tune in ours but I can't be sure, although this weekends 32.5mpg on a 350mile run would point to it being quite tame.
Get some pics up! We need more F-bodies to perv at round here
I think we're running a standard tune in ours but I can't be sure, although this weekends 32.5mpg on a 350mile run would point to it being quite tame.
Get some pics up! We need more F-bodies to perv at round here
Edited by TheMighty on Tuesday 24th June 19:13
TheMighty said:
I don't really think ours will kick-down there at 45.... but I'm being extra careful because I know it will at just short of 40 and believe me it revs its nuts off, and I'd rather keep the insidey bits INSIDE!
I think we're running a standard tune in ours but I can't be sure, although this weekends 32.5mpg on a 350mile run would point to it being quite tame.
Get some pics up! We need more F-bodies to perv at round here
Actually, I've just taken it for a spin and it did kickdown into 1st at somewhere between 35 & 40mph. I didn't think it did when I tried the same thing yesterday. Soon had to come off the gas though...the car in front was getting very close very quick!! It's a nightmare around here trying to find a wide/safe/empty road without speed humps, or cameras to try any of this stuff on.I think we're running a standard tune in ours but I can't be sure, although this weekends 32.5mpg on a 350mile run would point to it being quite tame.
Get some pics up! We need more F-bodies to perv at round here
Edited by TheMighty on Tuesday 24th June 19:13
Yes, must take some piccies. The light will be going soon so I'll try and take some tomorrow. That way I can do a before & after and post some more when my new wheels and exhaust have been fitted.
Sounds like your shift points haven't been moved.
Don't worry about a slight clunk, fairly common.
Have you checked the trans fluid after a drive ? Level obviously, but also check colour and smell. The 4L60E box is a good solid unit if not abused, but can be 'fussy' if your ATF fluid is degraded in any way. Also, there is absolutely no such thing as 'low fluid' ..... this will result in uneven pressures which could imply burned pressure plates(Low pressure) or catasrophic failure (high pressure).
Great choice of car ! Hopefully see you at one of the shows this year.
Best wishes.
Eddie
Don't worry about a slight clunk, fairly common.
Have you checked the trans fluid after a drive ? Level obviously, but also check colour and smell. The 4L60E box is a good solid unit if not abused, but can be 'fussy' if your ATF fluid is degraded in any way. Also, there is absolutely no such thing as 'low fluid' ..... this will result in uneven pressures which could imply burned pressure plates(Low pressure) or catasrophic failure (high pressure).
Great choice of car ! Hopefully see you at one of the shows this year.
Best wishes.
Eddie
The clunk is fairly normal. The back axle is only located by the stamped steel lower control arms, Panhard bar and these have soft rubber bushings and as the targa shell isn't exactly rigid, the car tries to twist the shell.
The best value stuff for the F-body is BMR stuff. A good pair of tubular lower control arms with poly-bushings will locate the axle. You only need to uprate the Panhard bar if you lower the suspension really. A strut top brace makes a world of difference and if you can run to them, some weld-on subframe connectors vastly improve the car so when you jack a corner, the whole side of the car lifts, not just the corner you're jacking.
I never did get round to buying an uprated torque arm which runs the length of the propshaft but that's supposed to be a good mod too. Just remember that the more you stiffen the chassis, the less power disappears into twisting the shell and it goes to the back axle instead.
Here is my Camaro site.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/471412
I loved that car.
The best value stuff for the F-body is BMR stuff. A good pair of tubular lower control arms with poly-bushings will locate the axle. You only need to uprate the Panhard bar if you lower the suspension really. A strut top brace makes a world of difference and if you can run to them, some weld-on subframe connectors vastly improve the car so when you jack a corner, the whole side of the car lifts, not just the corner you're jacking.
I never did get round to buying an uprated torque arm which runs the length of the propshaft but that's supposed to be a good mod too. Just remember that the more you stiffen the chassis, the less power disappears into twisting the shell and it goes to the back axle instead.
Here is my Camaro site.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/471412
I loved that car.
Haven't noticed a clunk with mine (luckily, I guess!) and mine kicks down into 1st ok - although I've not really analysed it too closely. I know sometimes it feels like a deadspot when trying to accelerate fairly hard where not much happens but can't remember what speed point that happens at.
And don't be afraid to rev the engine - LS1s are lovely engines and fairly relaxed. I can't see there's any way you'll over rev it. My favourite Camaro moment is idling around 20 mph and then planting it (on a nice long straight empty road obviously!). Bellowing engine, car pitching back slightly and whoosh! You're away. Fabulous feeling and guaranteed to have you grinning your head off.
And don't be afraid to rev the engine - LS1s are lovely engines and fairly relaxed. I can't see there's any way you'll over rev it. My favourite Camaro moment is idling around 20 mph and then planting it (on a nice long straight empty road obviously!). Bellowing engine, car pitching back slightly and whoosh! You're away. Fabulous feeling and guaranteed to have you grinning your head off.
Thanks for the replies guys.
I'd just like to stress that, despite raising a few concerns, I am actually really thrilled with my new 'toy'...I'm just a bit of a perfectionist and a tad fussy, that's all. It's really good to be able to ask questions and share experiences on here....it's not like I can just walk up the road and ask one of my neighbours if their Camaro clunks!
So, the clunk seems pretty normal...no more worries there. I'll still mention it to the place I bought the car from when I take it back to have my exhaust fitted, though. The shifting must have been in my imagination because it seemed fine today. Interesting what Flip Martian mentioned about experiencing a deadspot when trying to accelerate...I suspect that's what I encountered, too. I will check the colour and smell of the trans fluid though, just to be sure...thanks for that tip harley the huskey.
LuS1fer, your Camaro looked real nice (and so does your current Mustang). I read through your carDomain site the other evening - the info about the mods is great. I'm seriously considering the Bilstein shocks as my next 'upgrade'. By the way, I don't have Targa Tops, mine is a straight hardtop. Targa tops would have been nice, but my car met almost all the other criteria I had set when I was looking so I didn't want to let it slip by and risk having to wait an age before anything else came along.
A final moan though...one thing that isn't broken, but may as well be is the Monsoon stereo. My car was a japanese export model so it's got the restricted Japanese FM band...76 to 90MHz....good for nothing more than Radio 2! Plus it's the tape version....can't remember the last time I played one of those. So, the whole unit is pretty redundant for me. Should be an easy fix though as I've seen a few being offered for sale on US Ebay and on some of the Yank forums. I must be able to persuade one of them selling a CD version to ship to the UK.
I'd just like to stress that, despite raising a few concerns, I am actually really thrilled with my new 'toy'...I'm just a bit of a perfectionist and a tad fussy, that's all. It's really good to be able to ask questions and share experiences on here....it's not like I can just walk up the road and ask one of my neighbours if their Camaro clunks!
So, the clunk seems pretty normal...no more worries there. I'll still mention it to the place I bought the car from when I take it back to have my exhaust fitted, though. The shifting must have been in my imagination because it seemed fine today. Interesting what Flip Martian mentioned about experiencing a deadspot when trying to accelerate...I suspect that's what I encountered, too. I will check the colour and smell of the trans fluid though, just to be sure...thanks for that tip harley the huskey.
LuS1fer, your Camaro looked real nice (and so does your current Mustang). I read through your carDomain site the other evening - the info about the mods is great. I'm seriously considering the Bilstein shocks as my next 'upgrade'. By the way, I don't have Targa Tops, mine is a straight hardtop. Targa tops would have been nice, but my car met almost all the other criteria I had set when I was looking so I didn't want to let it slip by and risk having to wait an age before anything else came along.
A final moan though...one thing that isn't broken, but may as well be is the Monsoon stereo. My car was a japanese export model so it's got the restricted Japanese FM band...76 to 90MHz....good for nothing more than Radio 2! Plus it's the tape version....can't remember the last time I played one of those. So, the whole unit is pretty redundant for me. Should be an easy fix though as I've seen a few being offered for sale on US Ebay and on some of the Yank forums. I must be able to persuade one of them selling a CD version to ship to the UK.
Ok but remember US stereos only tune in on odd frequencies. Not a problem for me here in Wales where everything is odd (!!)but if your favourites are on even frequencies, may be just as useless. Crutchfield do some double DIN stereos. You can get a plug-in 12 CD changer that goes in the boot. Euro Z28s often had them fitted.
Hardtop is better for rigidity and handling.
Hardtop is better for rigidity and handling.
LuS1fer said:
Ok but remember US stereos only tune in on odd frequencies. Not a problem for me here in Wales where everything is odd (!!)but if your favourites are on even frequencies, may be just as useless. Crutchfield do some double DIN stereos. You can get a plug-in 12 CD changer that goes in the boot. Euro Z28s often had them fitted.
Hardtop is better for rigidity and handling.
Mine came with a Panasonic 8 CD changer in the boot, still would have preferred the CD up front though. Didn't realise that about the US stereos only tuning in to odd frequencies. Thanks for that. I'll check out the Crutchfield site.Hardtop is better for rigidity and handling.
Edited by yabadaba on Wednesday 25th June 07:50
yabadaba said:
Mine is an auto model and I'm finding that sometimes it just won't kickdown into 1st gear. It will if I'm moving pretty slow, but when I try at around 30mph it only seems to drop down to 2nd.
What other cars are you comparing too? (just curious 
)Well first off you need to find out what final drive ration you have.
Standard rear axle gears are 2.73:1 but there was an optional 3.23:1 (this was standard on SS and WS6 cars with autos).
There are also a host of aftermarket options such as 3.42, 3.73, 3.90 and 4.10:1
If its stock look on the Door codes (open the door along the closing edge). If it says GU2 you have 2.73:1 if it says GU5 it's the optional 3.23:1 gears.
You can check while driving. With the 2.73's you should be at 80mph in top at about 2000rpm. With 3.23's 2000rpm will be below 70mph.
Now to the kick-down!
Essentially the tranny will only kickdown to a certain rpm. No point in kicking down and putting you at 5200rpm as it'll brake something and need to shift back up again almost instantly.
With the 3.23 gears you will need to keep to under 35mph to get it to kick down to first. 4400rpm is your PEAK torque and this is about the highest it will kick down to. With the 3.23 gears that's 34mph.
Any faster and 2nd is the lowest it'll drop you to.
If you want to see speeds in gear have a look here: http://www.f-body.org/gears/
yabadaba said:
Other cars I've driven seem to kickdown to 1st at this speed. Anyone know the cutoff point/speed for a 1st gear kickdown?
If this doesn't work, or you have different final drive ratio gears, post up and I'll do what I can.But learning where your car performs best it part of the driving experience.
If you want better response then there are two mods to look at.
1. A higher stall torque converter. I'd look at something like a 3500 stall. This means if you are in a low rpm power band the torque converter will flash and allow the engine to rev higher and produce more power until the driveline catches up. There fore better accelaration.
If you want more info check out Yank Converters http://www.converter.cc/
2. Change your final drive ratio for something a bit more sporty. Common choices are 3.42 and 3.73:1, although in some setups and uses a 4.10:1 may work better.
Generally this will mean your crusing rpms are higher, so more noise and potentially less MPG. It also means lower terminal speed in gear, but you'll reach speeds quicker.
yabadaba said:
Also, is it anything to do with which of the Drive positions I choose?
Not really. Do you have a Firebird or Camaro?If it's in 4th or [D] (D with a box round it). This is over drive. 3rd gear in the auto is 1:1 ratio so 4th is for cruising mostly.
Locking it in 3rd or D means you utilise 3 gears. This should speed up reaction time for kick-down if you are in OD it takes longer to get to first than from D. But not by much.
There is some debate as to line pressure fluctuation between the settings. Personlly if you are near stock HP I wouldn't worry to much and I'd use it as you see fit.
If you up the HP then LS1 have a habbit of eating the 4L60e automatic tranny.
If you want to improve shifts then you could get a shift kit. Transgo is the one to buy available from places like Thunder Racing. www.thunderracing.com
But this may cause other problems where an electronic setting called Torque Management may kick in when shifting and reduce engine power. This can be disbaled, but there aren't many places in the UK to do it for you. You can buy software like HP Tuners or EFI Live that can do this and much much more.
yabadaba said:
Secondly, when the car takes up gear I sometimes hear (and feel) a slight 'clunk'. I'm sure I've had this before with auto's...propshaft? Do I need to worry or rush to get anything fixed?
Cheers.
I suspect that's just driveline shunt, orginating from the prop, diff, tranny or what ever.Cheers.
Unless its really bad I wouldn't worry too much. It might be worth, if possible riding in another auto LS1 or getting someone with one to ride in yours. If yours is noticably worse then it may be worth considering looking at further.
yabadaba said:
A final moan though...one thing that isn't broken, but may as well be is the Monsoon stereo. My car was a japanese export model so it's got the restricted Japanese FM band...76 to 90MHz....good for nothing more than Radio 2! Plus it's the tape version....can't remember the last time I played one of those. So, the whole unit is pretty redundant for me. Should be an easy fix though as I've seen a few being offered for sale on US Ebay and on some of the Yank forums. I must be able to persuade one of them selling a CD version to ship to the UK.
You can get an apadtor plate to make the big hole standard DIN.
I've had both a targa and full fixed camaro and would recommend the later, the body definately feels more rigid and I found that the buffeting when the T-tops were out unpleasant anyway.
balls-out said:
I've had both a targa and full fixed camaro and would recommend the later, the body definately feels more rigid and I found that the buffeting when the T-tops were out unpleasant anyway.
Just so you know. The coupe version is not any sitffer, it has a plastic roof and some small steel bars to retain it at each end. It uses the same central brace as the T-top version does for it's structural rigidity.300bhp/ton said:
balls-out said:
I've had both a targa and full fixed camaro and would recommend the later, the body definately feels more rigid and I found that the buffeting when the T-tops were out unpleasant anyway.
Just so you know. The coupe version is not any sitffer, it has a plastic roof and some small steel bars to retain it at each end. It uses the same central brace as the T-top version does for it's structural rigidity.I'm not totally convinced that that stops it being stiffer, and certainly I'm sure that mine IS stiffer than the previous, although that could just be different cars.
It may well be negligible but a permanent bar rather than a targa that is secured by pins must surely have a slight effect but granted the targo in place must operate as a brace itself.
He is right though - in fact your Camaro has plastic wings, bumpers, door skins and rear panel and rear hatch. The only steel is the inner frame structure, the hood and the rear wings. Be very careful when jacking at the front - those flanges where the bottom of the front wings bolt on are very easy to bend.
Anyway, where are the photos....
He is right though - in fact your Camaro has plastic wings, bumpers, door skins and rear panel and rear hatch. The only steel is the inner frame structure, the hood and the rear wings. Be very careful when jacking at the front - those flanges where the bottom of the front wings bolt on are very easy to bend.
Anyway, where are the photos....
Mine's a euro model - and did indeed come with the 12 cd autochanger. A doddle to use but you do forget what you loaded in there...
The head unit (a radio/tape unit) is different to the US market one with the same knobs but in a different layout.
I was told American FM radios aren't entirely compatible with over here but there are ways of converting them as said already. Probably better getting a US one - more chance of getting spares if you need them. Mine has the main on/off volume knob missing - chances of getting a replacement seem to be virtually zero. Just as well it works without (it has a long spindle).
I have a T Tops model - I wanted that rather than a hard top just for those odd days when its nice weather! Love 'em! Tops off, windows wound down, almost like driving a convertible. Quite an experience when you floor it (a bit...*ahem*). T Tops are prone to leaking though - the seals around the panels perish or just don't fit properly. Fortunately mine is ok at the mo' but I guess it can happen with age.
The head unit (a radio/tape unit) is different to the US market one with the same knobs but in a different layout.I was told American FM radios aren't entirely compatible with over here but there are ways of converting them as said already. Probably better getting a US one - more chance of getting spares if you need them. Mine has the main on/off volume knob missing - chances of getting a replacement seem to be virtually zero. Just as well it works without (it has a long spindle).
I have a T Tops model - I wanted that rather than a hard top just for those odd days when its nice weather!
Love 'em! Tops off, windows wound down, almost like driving a convertible. Quite an experience when you floor it (a bit...*ahem*). T Tops are prone to leaking though - the seals around the panels perish or just don't fit properly. Fortunately mine is ok at the mo' but I guess it can happen with age.
Looks VERY nice in that pewter colour. Smart! Different alloys to mine - they look very nice.
Lovely car though. Very cool.
I posted a few pics of mine (including a very SIMILAR pic of my double exhaust, ha ha!) here:-
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=549715
Lovely car though. Very cool.
I posted a few pics of mine (including a very SIMILAR pic of my double exhaust, ha ha!) here:-
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=549715
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