Cheap Muscle Car
Discussion
just to point you in the direction of some decent looking muscle for not much ££, you can't beat a Camaro IMO
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/169555.htm
or for a few hundred quid more - http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/197625.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/169555.htm
or for a few hundred quid more - http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/197625.htm
F.M said:
2 words.....trans am....
Join an owners club (of the make you're interested in) or the AACI (http://www.aacint.com/events.asp) Hell, even ask on here (you kinda started). Get some knowledge before you buy. Too little info to go on at the moment but I'm biased and would go Trans-Am too (1977-1979)
ws6 said:
F.M said:
2 words.....trans am....
Join an owners club (of the make you're interested in) or the AACI (http://www.aacint.com/events.asp) Hell, even ask on here (you kinda started). Get some knowledge before you buy. Too little info to go on at the moment but I'm biased and would go Trans-Am too (1977-1979)
..
real power = early 70's but your £4K wont go very far.
There were some pretty power supped cars 79/80/81. I think you money will go further buying a 80's - 90's.
Get to an American car show, have a look around.... Looking at your location, I had this sent to me....
1/2 September there is a really good show here in a place call kilbeggin and which is about 25 miles outside Dublin. A campsite available at the show......with 24-hour supervised car parking....lots of really good local watering holes ... also on the Saturday night there is a Cruise...that's always entertaining......this event is one of the better ones and will give you a really good picture of the scene over here in the Republic. It's one of the bigger end of year shows on this side of the pond with very big attendance from all over Ireland including Northern Ireland...
There were some pretty power supped cars 79/80/81. I think you money will go further buying a 80's - 90's.
Get to an American car show, have a look around.... Looking at your location, I had this sent to me....
1/2 September there is a really good show here in a place call kilbeggin and which is about 25 miles outside Dublin. A campsite available at the show......with 24-hour supervised car parking....lots of really good local watering holes ... also on the Saturday night there is a Cruise...that's always entertaining......this event is one of the better ones and will give you a really good picture of the scene over here in the Republic. It's one of the bigger end of year shows on this side of the pond with very big attendance from all over Ireland including Northern Ireland...
£4k will get you a reasonable (uprated if your lucky-most factory cars after 1972 had lowish power) 3rd gen camaro (82-92) or a pretty rough 2nd gen camaro (70-81) early to mid 90's tran am/firebird V8 is poss for this money. Forgot classic late 60's stuff like Pontiac GTO's, Dodge chargers etc are at least £10-12k and up...
best value is probably a modified 82-90 camaro or firebird, basically the same car.. as stated go by the bodywork and interior, as mechanical stuff is relatively cheap..
best value is probably a modified 82-90 camaro or firebird, basically the same car.. as stated go by the bodywork and interior, as mechanical stuff is relatively cheap..
Forthright MC said:
just to point you in the direction of some decent looking muscle for not much ££, you can't beat a Camaro IMO
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/169555.htm
or for a few hundred quid more - http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/197625.htm
The second one would be my choice, but then im biased http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/169555.htm
or for a few hundred quid more - http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/197625.htm
A 5.7 Iroc is rare, the RS is more the 'GL' version, the Iroc is more 'GTi'
If you want some pointers on what to look for, send me an e mail at bloodyniceben@btinternet.com
Ben
Real power doesn't come cheap and £4000 won't go far. The problem with American cars is that they depreciate fast initially then stabilise for a long time, drop when they reach that certain age and become unwanted and then slowly rise in value again. The 3rd gen Camaros and Trans Ams have gone that way as good examples become harder to find. Most of them are 5.0 engines (though many will be advertised as 5.7s)which vary from 145bhp in 1982 up to 225bhp in 1991 (except the auto - which most of them are - only got 205hp). The rare 5.7s got 235 or 245hp.
The 4th gen cars ran from 1993 until 2002 and are currently on the slide. The V6 3.4 put out 165hp which is more than some of the 3rd gen V8s and the later 3.8 put out 200hp. They don't sound like a V8 but they go pretty well and you can often find them with the T5 5 speed box. The suspension needs uprating though. One advantage of the 4th gen over the 3rd gen is that all the panels are plastic bar the bonnet and rear wings so corrosion should be less of a problem and if you look on Auto Trader, you'll see the rear arches are often the first casualties on a 3rd gen.
By far the most power can be bought in a 4th gen Camaro Z28 which produces an honest 275hp and there are a few on Auto Trader within your budget, some Japanese imports. The only thing to watch out for on the LT1 engine is the Optispark ignition, especially on earlier models. Optispark is basically a dinner-plate bolted on the end of the crank which works like a direct drive distributor but it is prone to water damage and can be about £600 to replace so check for proper smooth running.
The Pontiac Firebird is the equivalent to the Camaro RS and the Trans Am equates to the Z28. From 1982, the two cars are virtually the same, sharing engines and running gear. They're often more expensive but for no good reason. Again, there are a couple of V8s on Auto Trader within your budget. The V6 3rd gens aren't very powerful though so stick with a V8.
As for 2nd gens, I think that boat has sailed. Going up in price for anything but a troublesome rot-box and rot they do. The 3rd gen isn't too bad on rot - mainly inner sill where the exhaust runs too close and rear arches. Surface corrosion underneath the car is normal but American steel is pretty good quality. Roof linings tend to fall down and deteriorate too so watch for those especially on T-tops.
I note that even the unloved Corvette (1983-1996)C4 has stopped depreciating but a bad one of those can be a lot of trouble and the only way of buying a Corvette is to buy a good one to start with - which is out of your price range.
The 4th gen cars ran from 1993 until 2002 and are currently on the slide. The V6 3.4 put out 165hp which is more than some of the 3rd gen V8s and the later 3.8 put out 200hp. They don't sound like a V8 but they go pretty well and you can often find them with the T5 5 speed box. The suspension needs uprating though. One advantage of the 4th gen over the 3rd gen is that all the panels are plastic bar the bonnet and rear wings so corrosion should be less of a problem and if you look on Auto Trader, you'll see the rear arches are often the first casualties on a 3rd gen.
By far the most power can be bought in a 4th gen Camaro Z28 which produces an honest 275hp and there are a few on Auto Trader within your budget, some Japanese imports. The only thing to watch out for on the LT1 engine is the Optispark ignition, especially on earlier models. Optispark is basically a dinner-plate bolted on the end of the crank which works like a direct drive distributor but it is prone to water damage and can be about £600 to replace so check for proper smooth running.
The Pontiac Firebird is the equivalent to the Camaro RS and the Trans Am equates to the Z28. From 1982, the two cars are virtually the same, sharing engines and running gear. They're often more expensive but for no good reason. Again, there are a couple of V8s on Auto Trader within your budget. The V6 3rd gens aren't very powerful though so stick with a V8.
As for 2nd gens, I think that boat has sailed. Going up in price for anything but a troublesome rot-box and rot they do. The 3rd gen isn't too bad on rot - mainly inner sill where the exhaust runs too close and rear arches. Surface corrosion underneath the car is normal but American steel is pretty good quality. Roof linings tend to fall down and deteriorate too so watch for those especially on T-tops.
I note that even the unloved Corvette (1983-1996)C4 has stopped depreciating but a bad one of those can be a lot of trouble and the only way of buying a Corvette is to buy a good one to start with - which is out of your price range.
LuS1fer said:
Real power doesn't come cheap and £4000 won't go far. The problem with American cars is that they depreciate fast initially then stabilise for a long time, drop when they reach that certain age and become unwanted and then slowly rise in value again. The 3rd gen Camaros and Trans Ams have gone that way as good examples become harder to find. Most of them are 5.0 engines (though many will be advertised as 5.7s)which vary from 145bhp in 1982 up to 225bhp in 1991 (except the auto - which most of them are - only got 205hp). The rare 5.7s got 235 or 245hp.
The 4th gen cars ran from 1993 until 2002 and are currently on the slide. The V6 3.4 put out 165hp which is more than some of the 3rd gen V8s and the later 3.8 put out 200hp. They don't sound like a V8 but they go pretty well and you can often find them with the T5 5 speed box. The suspension needs uprating though. One advantage of the 4th gen over the 3rd gen is that all the panels are plastic bar the bonnet and rear wings so corrosion should be less of a problem and if you look on Auto Trader, you'll see the rear arches are often the first casualties on a 3rd gen.
By far the most power can be bought in a 4th gen Camaro Z28 which produces an honest 275hp and there are a few on Auto Trader within your budget, some Japanese imports. The only thing to watch out for on the LT1 engine is the Optispark ignition, especially on earlier models. Optispark is basically a dinner-plate bolted on the end of the crank which works like a direct drive distributor but it is prone to water damage and can be about £600 to replace so check for proper smooth running.
The Pontiac Firebird is the equivalent to the Camaro RS and the Trans Am equates to the Z28. From 1982, the two cars are virtually the same, sharing engines and running gear. They're often more expensive but for no good reason. Again, there are a couple of V8s on Auto Trader within your budget. The V6 3rd gens aren't very powerful though so stick with a V8.
As for 2nd gens, I think that boat has sailed. Going up in price for anything but a troublesome rot-box and rot they do. The 3rd gen isn't too bad on rot - mainly inner sill where the exhaust runs too close and rear arches. Surface corrosion underneath the car is normal but American steel is pretty good quality. Roof linings tend to fall down and deteriorate too so watch for those especially on T-tops.
I note that even the unloved Corvette (1983-1996)C4 has stopped depreciating but a bad one of those can be a lot of trouble and the only way of buying a Corvette is to buy a good one to start with - which is out of your price range.
The Second gens are starting to gain in popularity now, and the 3rd gen should follow suit. The 4th gen cars ran from 1993 until 2002 and are currently on the slide. The V6 3.4 put out 165hp which is more than some of the 3rd gen V8s and the later 3.8 put out 200hp. They don't sound like a V8 but they go pretty well and you can often find them with the T5 5 speed box. The suspension needs uprating though. One advantage of the 4th gen over the 3rd gen is that all the panels are plastic bar the bonnet and rear wings so corrosion should be less of a problem and if you look on Auto Trader, you'll see the rear arches are often the first casualties on a 3rd gen.
By far the most power can be bought in a 4th gen Camaro Z28 which produces an honest 275hp and there are a few on Auto Trader within your budget, some Japanese imports. The only thing to watch out for on the LT1 engine is the Optispark ignition, especially on earlier models. Optispark is basically a dinner-plate bolted on the end of the crank which works like a direct drive distributor but it is prone to water damage and can be about £600 to replace so check for proper smooth running.
The Pontiac Firebird is the equivalent to the Camaro RS and the Trans Am equates to the Z28. From 1982, the two cars are virtually the same, sharing engines and running gear. They're often more expensive but for no good reason. Again, there are a couple of V8s on Auto Trader within your budget. The V6 3rd gens aren't very powerful though so stick with a V8.
As for 2nd gens, I think that boat has sailed. Going up in price for anything but a troublesome rot-box and rot they do. The 3rd gen isn't too bad on rot - mainly inner sill where the exhaust runs too close and rear arches. Surface corrosion underneath the car is normal but American steel is pretty good quality. Roof linings tend to fall down and deteriorate too so watch for those especially on T-tops.
I note that even the unloved Corvette (1983-1996)C4 has stopped depreciating but a bad one of those can be a lot of trouble and the only way of buying a Corvette is to buy a good one to start with - which is out of your price range.
I think a 3rd gen is the best place to start, and from experience, my 5.7 Iroc has been a great laugh all round.
In my opinion i dont think the 4th gen cars will gain in popularity that much as i think they look far too Japanese.
Ben
A lot of people think they look too Japanese and for a while I was almost with them until i saw one in the metal (and plastic). The 4th gen is a very subtle design, especially in later LS1 form with some beautiful curves along the sides and back. To some extent the Japanese "look" (if there is such a thing as they generally copy the Americans) overshadows the complex curvaceousness of the design which hardly has a straight line on it anywhere. Oddly, even though people say they look Japanese, I have yet to actually find a Japanese car that looks anything like a Camaro - perhaps the nearest is the Mazda MX3 from the back. The LS1-engines TA, however, is completely unsubtle and is the daddy of them all when it comes to scoops, curves, intakes and spoilers. Nothing even remotely Japanese about that - it's a pukka American overboard muscle car.
So I think the 4th gen will follow the family tradition - the design will look a little dated but as cars evolve, people will look back on them and think they're as stunning as I think they are. they also need to be seen in the flesh to appreciate their size which divorces them from anything half-heartedly Japanese. The 3rd gen went through a very long period of being considered outdated before the design "came of age" and began to look "classic" - but they all do that....eventually.
So I think the 4th gen will follow the family tradition - the design will look a little dated but as cars evolve, people will look back on them and think they're as stunning as I think they are. they also need to be seen in the flesh to appreciate their size which divorces them from anything half-heartedly Japanese. The 3rd gen went through a very long period of being considered outdated before the design "came of age" and began to look "classic" - but they all do that....eventually.
I cannot recommend a 4th gen highly enough. I have had mine for three and a half years and love it to bits. It is used daily and during the course of my work. It has enough space for the kids in the back, is practical enough for a week in Le Mans with all the associated stuff in the back. The T bar roof lets you enjoy the fresh air and it is quite nippy.
I cannot think of anything else I would rather have until I can afford a Corvette.
Don't hesitate, just do it!!!!!
I cannot think of anything else I would rather have until I can afford a Corvette.
Don't hesitate, just do it!!!!!
Trooper2 said:
ws6 said:
F.M said:
2 words.....trans am....
Join an owners club (of the make you're interested in) or the AACI (http://www.aacint.com/events.asp) Hell, even ask on here (you kinda started). Get some knowledge before you buy. Too little info to go on at the moment but I'm biased and would go Trans-Am too (1977-1979)
..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NksrfEq2KQI
All of the cars mentioned above have this instant "look-like-an-idiot-quality" to them. If I were you I'd save some more money to get an earlier version. Or why not a 2002 beamer?
You do not seem to have read the OP. They do not want a BMW the same as everyone else. If you don't like American cars that's fine, there are plenty of cars I don't like, it would not do if we were all the same.
Personally I like nice simple engines with lots of power and even more torque. I also like having a car that's a bit different.
Maybe if you tried one you might find you like it.
Personally I like nice simple engines with lots of power and even more torque. I also like having a car that's a bit different.
Maybe if you tried one you might find you like it.
LuS1fer said:
A lot of people think they look too Japanese and for a while I was almost with them until i saw one in the metal (and plastic). The 4th gen is a very subtle design, especially in later LS1 form with some beautiful curves along the sides and back. To some extent the Japanese "look" (if there is such a thing as they generally copy the Americans) overshadows the complex curvaceousness of the design which hardly has a straight line on it anywhere. Oddly, even though people say they look Japanese, I have yet to actually find a Japanese car that looks anything like a Camaro - perhaps the nearest is the Mazda MX3 from the back. The LS1-engines TA, however, is completely unsubtle and is the daddy of them all when it comes to scoops, curves, intakes and spoilers. Nothing even remotely Japanese about that - it's a pukka American overboard muscle car.
No Japaneese looks here.
a bit out the price range, but 350hp is as said before, the Daddy of all the pony cars
So I think the 4th gen will follow the family tradition - the design will look a little dated but as cars evolve, people will look back on them and think they're as stunning as I think they are. they also need to be seen in the flesh to appreciate their size which divorces them from anything half-heartedly Japanese. The 3rd gen went through a very long period of being considered outdated before the design "came of age" and began to look "classic" - but they all do that....eventually.
No Japaneese looks here.
a bit out the price range, but 350hp is as said before, the Daddy of all the pony cars
So I think the 4th gen will follow the family tradition - the design will look a little dated but as cars evolve, people will look back on them and think they're as stunning as I think they are. they also need to be seen in the flesh to appreciate their size which divorces them from anything half-heartedly Japanese. The 3rd gen went through a very long period of being considered outdated before the design "came of age" and began to look "classic" - but they all do that....eventually.
UK_WS6 said:
LuS1fer said:
A lot of people think they look too Japanese and for a while I was almost with them until i saw one in the metal (and plastic). The 4th gen is a very subtle design, especially in later LS1 form with some beautiful curves along the sides and back. To some extent the Japanese "look" (if there is such a thing as they generally copy the Americans) overshadows the complex curvaceousness of the design which hardly has a straight line on it anywhere. Oddly, even though people say they look Japanese, I have yet to actually find a Japanese car that looks anything like a Camaro - perhaps the nearest is the Mazda MX3 from the back. The LS1-engines TA, however, is completely unsubtle and is the daddy of them all when it comes to scoops, curves, intakes and spoilers. Nothing even remotely Japanese about that - it's a pukka American overboard muscle car.
No Japaneese looks here.
a bit out the price range, but 350hp is as said before, the Daddy of all the pony cars
So I think the 4th gen will follow the family tradition - the design will look a little dated but as cars evolve, people will look back on them and think they're as stunning as I think they are. they also need to be seen in the flesh to appreciate their size which divorces them from anything half-heartedly Japanese. The 3rd gen went through a very long period of being considered outdated before the design "came of age" and began to look "classic" - but they all do that....eventually.
No Japaneese looks here.
a bit out the price range, but 350hp is as said before, the Daddy of all the pony cars
So I think the 4th gen will follow the family tradition - the design will look a little dated but as cars evolve, people will look back on them and think they're as stunning as I think they are. they also need to be seen in the flesh to appreciate their size which divorces them from anything half-heartedly Japanese. The 3rd gen went through a very long period of being considered outdated before the design "came of age" and began to look "classic" - but they all do that....eventually.
Ben
Trenchtown said:
Trooper2 said:
ws6 said:
F.M said:
2 words.....trans am....
Join an owners club (of the make you're interested in) or the AACI (http://www.aacint.com/events.asp) Hell, even ask on here (you kinda started). Get some knowledge before you buy. Too little info to go on at the moment but I'm biased and would go Trans-Am too (1977-1979)
..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NksrfEq2KQI
All of the cars mentioned above have this instant "look-like-an-idiot-quality" to them. If I were you I'd save some more money to get an earlier version. Or why not a 2002 beamer?
And anyway, who the f*ck wants a sodding BMW, all the owners are arrogant t
ts that think they own the road, they drive like tossers, and why doesnt any BMW driver know what indicators are for.If you drive an older BMW, it gives the impression you cant afford to be the person you want to be. I must say though, the current BMW's are very eyecatching, but for all the wrong reasons!!
Ben
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