PCV valve fell into engine...

[vinver]

Hello,

I was working on my 1978 ford fairmont (which has the 2.3L SOHC ford lima engine).
I notice i burned some oil at high revs, and figured to check the PCV first. When I took it out (it was a plastic motorcraft one), the inside fell out. I heard a clunk and saw a metal spring lying on the engine block. I notice the underside of the pcv valve was just an little empty canister. It seems heat and time (and very poor maintenance by the previous owner) deteriorated the plastic. Now it seems that the pcv was plugged into a curved hose that fits into an oil vapour separator. I am very inexperienced and the separator is quite rusty and inaccessible.
Now I presume that there is another part of the PCV that actually fell into the engine (into the hose that connects to the separator, which in turn is connected the crankcase). Because a pcv consists of a little valve and a spring, and i could only find the spring…

Do you think it would cause any harm just forgetting about it, replacing the pcv valve and running the engine? Or should I get a mechanic to come pick up the car and dismantle the oil vapour separator thing. I just want you to know that apart from changing the idle speed and air filter, this is one of the first things i have ever done to a car. So dismantling the thing myself probably is too hard.

Kind regards,

Vincent

[robseagul]

Good evening.
As a auto mech I would advice removing any foreign objects before a start up.
You may well get away without any damage however it’s not worth the chancing it on a classic.
Regards
Rob

Edited by robseagul on Sunday 16th August 23:04

[fatboy18]

robseagul said:

Good evening.
As a auto mech I would advice removing any foreign objects before a start up.
You may well get away without any damage however it’s not worth the chancing it on a classic.
Regards
Rob

Wot he said ^^^, No way you want to dare turn the engine over, if you can't find the parts then you are going to have to strip things down.

It's a little hard trying to picture exactly what you are saying
can you upload a coupleof pics so we can see what were looking at and where you think the missing part might have gone?
If it goes down into an oil way you may risk oil starvation to part of the engine and then you are into much bigger problems

[vinver]

robseagul said:

Good evening.
As a auto mech I would advice removing any foreign objects before a start up.
You may well get away without any damage however it’s not worth the chancing it on a classic.
Regards
Rob

Edited by robseagul on Sunday 16th August 23:04

Hi, thanks for the answer.
The problem is that I'm very inexperienced, so if i need to strip down things i'd have to call a mechanic with a tow truck and make him tear it down, which will be quite expensive i'm afraid. I ordered a new pcv valve and will be posting some pics in a few days when it arrives, I'll try to look around some more and push the car to another place, to check the rest isn't just laying on the ground.

[hiccy18]

If you think something metal has fallen down a hole lowering a magnet down it can often recover the offending item.

[fatboy18]

I have a feeling it's likely to be a bit of hard plastic.

[vinver]

fatboy18 said:

I have a feeling it's likely to be a bit of hard plastic.

Yeah i was just wondering about that, since the housing was made of plastic, apart from the spring everything else can be made of plastic right?
Anyway, I'll attach a strong magnet to a stick and poke around a bit, If i find nothing i'm afraid i'll just have to run her, since letting a mechanic tear everything down and tow her might be a bit overkill for my taste. I know this sounds like cheaping out but to be honest the car isn't worth that much either, and I have already sunk some money into it...

Does anybody know about pcv valves with all plastic insides apart from the spring? Or would that just be wishful thinking?

[fatboy18]

Can you see into the hole that you "think" the part may have dropped into? You could try bending a old metal coat hanger and putting into the hole with a slight bend on it and carefully move the wire around to see if you can get the part into the area of the hole that you can see it. then get some sticky tape on the end of the wire and pluck it out. (Trying not to get oil on the tape)
https://help.summitracing.com/app/answers/detail/a...
You will likely be looking for a small part that looks like a flat Nail head

.Google "Internal parts of PCV Valve" and click Images, You will see spring and possible metal or plastic parts.

Edited by fatboy18 on Monday 17th August 19:37

[dudleybloke]

Buy a cheapy endoscope and see if you can find it.

[vinver]

Those all seem great ideas,

I'll be attaching a magnet to a coathanger to snake around bends, and see if i can fish something out.
The first part of the hole you plug the valve into is a rubber hose, so i'll try to bend it downwards, since it is coated in grease and sludge, the internals of the pcv can't be far down.

I'll keep you guys posted.

Thanks for the support.

[newsatten]

Without seeing the motor im assuming the PCV is located in the valve cover/rocker box??/
if so just remove the box and retrieve the any odd bits a pieces lying on top of the head.............
with a OHC motor youd be very unlucky if any thing has got past the valve seals............

[vinver]

newsatten said:

Without seeing the motor im assuming the PCV is located in the valve cover/rocker box??/
if so just remove the box and retrieve the any odd bits a pieces lying on top of the head.............
with a OHC motor youd be very unlucky if any thing has got past the valve seals............

No the thing is that on top of the valve cover, you've got your oil fill screw cap, that is also some weirdish piece of the pcv system, but the actual valve itself is located right to the engine block, at about the heigt of your distributor (or right under the intake manifold), now it doesn't just plug into the block, it plugs into a bent hose that in its turn connects to something that looks like an oil vapour seperator, which is connected to the side of the crankcase i think. It is almost impossible to snip a picture of it since it is under a spaghetti of vacuum hoses, but i ordered a little endoscope which will arive friday, so i'll snap some pictures then.

[vinver]

So a quick update,

I got the endoscope, connected it to a phone (used as a screen) and tried to snake it down the tube / hose i was talking about.
I had a little magnet attachment for the endoscope, so i could pickup parts.



Sadly I wasn't able to get the endoscope in very far, and didn't find anything. (The hose you see in picture 2 takes a 90° bend almost immediately.)
In the first image i drew 2 circles, number 1 is part of the system, most people thought the pcv was plugged into the rocker cover, but in this case it's just a weird breather.
Image 1 (of weird breather / oil fill cap thing):



The real pcv is plugged into a hose that goes to a little rusty box, which goes to the crankcase (i think). For orientation purposes, the pcv hose is next to the distributor.

image 2: of pvc 'hose'

Edited by vinver on Thursday 20th August 20:35

[vinver]

So i remove the hose that goes to the oil vapour separator thing (see image I stole off of youtube):



Then i used the endoscope with a mirror and recorded some of the footage, I didn't find anything, so i suspect that it fell into the engine a long time ago.

There isn't much more i can do apart from fire up the engine and listen for noise I'm afraid.
What do you guys think?