Considering a 4th gen Camaro / Firebird

[spreadsheet monkey]

Am looking to buy a cheapish four seater convertible and am considering a 4th gen F-body as a left-field alternative to the usual Audi/BMW/Saab suspects, as I like the idea of having something a bit different and have always liked the looks of the 4th gen cars (although I know they are not everybody's favourite).

Not fixated on getting a V8 - quite happy to settle for the 3.8 V6.

Are there any pitfalls I should be aware of? I've never owned an American car or anything LHD before. Classic insurance seems cheap enough, and from what I've read, these seem to be relatively simple and well-proven cars.

Any recommendations for parts/servicing in the Surrey or South London area?

Have mainly been searching for cars on eBay and Carandclassic.co.uk - are there any Yank-specific websites I should look at?

[Buffyd]

spreadsheet monkey said:

Am looking to buy a cheapish four seater convertible and am considering a 4th gen F-body as a left-field alternative to the usual Audi/BMW/Saab suspects, as I like the idea of having something a bit different and have always liked the looks of the 4th gen cars (although I know they are not everybody's favourite).

Not fixated on getting a V8 - quite happy to settle for the 3.8 V6.

Are there any pitfalls I should be aware of? I've never owned an American car or anything LHD before. Classic insurance seems cheap enough, and from what I've read, these seem to be relatively simple and well-proven cars.

Any recommendations for parts/servicing in the Surrey or South London area?

Have mainly been searching for cars on eBay and Carandclassic.co.uk - are there any Yank-specific websites I should look at?

I actually bought myself a '99 Z28 Camaro in November, so thought I would say hi

I did some research regarding reliability and common problems on the US forums and emailed 300bhp/ton on here (Matt) who has one and was incredibly helpful and went above and beyond in terms of providing me with useful information regarding what to look for.

I found mine on eBay as well as looking on Pistonheads, Autotrader and Car and Classic, so I reckon you're looking in the right places.

Regarding parts/servicing, not used them myself but you've got Autopontiac in Hounslow www.autopontiac.co.uk
while a bit further round the M25 is American Technique www.facebook.com/American-Technique-UK-35490653122..., run by a guy called Richard who is very highly regarded and came highly recommended when I was asking around.

It's my first Yank and my first LHD car and, touch wood, so far the latter hasn't been a problem at all. The first two things I did were fit the best Osram bulbs I could find, as the headlights are crap, and got some wide angle glass for both door mirrors from eBay for about £15 as the standard glass offers very poor visibility and I was having a hard time judging the width of the car. The former made a huge difference to being able to see where I was going, while the latter made a huge difference to being able to see around me and subsequently made the car a lot easier to drive.

I was only planning on keeping mine for a few months but have already started modifying it so I think it's now turned into a more longterm prospect. I'd say a 4th Gen F body isn't for everyone, but I love mine, it's got a lot of character, it makes me smile and I wager you'll never see another one out on the road, which is definitely part of the appeal.

Edited by Buffyd on Wednesday 13th January 14:49

[LuS1fer]

I loved my '98 Z28 LS1.

I would favour the V8 over the V6, not least because it is far less complicated, a nice alloy pushrod V8 which produces nearer 340hp than the claimed 305.
I would avoid the LT1 cars up to 97 as the Optispark can be a PITA. I wouldn't mind a V6, as long as it had the T5 manual but the V6 was an economy spec car.
A Euro-spec Z28 often comes with the leather Firebird seats and are generally better-specced, often with a 12 disc multichanger in the boot.

Mine had BMR subframe connectors, lower control arms and a Strut brace. Only when you fit these do you realise how floppy the car is. You can literally jack one corner and the other 3 will stay on the ground....

I also had Bilstein suspension - a world of difference.

Interiors are grey and plastic and yank spec Camaros are velour palaces - Firebirds are better but heavier.

You can service the V8 with a fishfork.

Things that went wrong - air con pump tapped like Woody Woodpecker so I took the fuse out.
EGR valve went. Power steering leaked slightly after 70k.

Pick would be a Firebird WS6. Personally, I prefer the T-tops to the convertible. Great cars. Cruise all day at 130...

[bigkeeko]

Definitely seek out a V8 and you'll get the full theatre experience.

I had a a manual 1999 Z28 that needed nothing doing other than a $20 power steering pulley change. I done this myself and I ain't no mechanic. I had also a 2006 Saleen S281 (think improved S197 Mustang GT) and the older Camaro would have pulled it pants down performance wise.

Bang for buck V8 F bodies are fantastic and I would have another.

[steveo3002]

get the v8 , otherwise you will always be trying to make it sound/go /look like one

best part of a yank car hearing that v8 sound

[Z28DUNC]

As others have said, really needs to be the V8.

I've had 4th gens for the last 8 years now, can't beat them for the money.

Absolutely trounce Mustangs as far as performance in my experience!

[spreadsheet monkey]

Thanks for all responses. Glad to hear they are mostly positive.

Just a few more questions:

Where is the best place to find 4th gen Camaros? Are there any specialist websites or magazines I should looking at, besides the usual suspects of eBay and CarAndClassic? There's a UK Camaro forum, but it seems pretty quiet.

Are there any mechanical weak points I should look out for? I know about the intake manifold issue on the 3.8 engine. Anything else?

Anything that these cars commonly fail the MOT for? I see some Japanese-market cars out there - are these OK? Are there rustproofing issues or anything like that?

[Z28DUNC]

Keep a eye on Oldcott Motors he has a lot of 4th gens that come up for sale.

I would take whatever car you go to see for a 20 - 30 min drive and listen for diff noise and check engine temp etc. Obvious stuff really. They are pretty sturdy cars.

I've had the odd electrical gremlin over the years and if your buying a t-top make sure the seals are in good nick. I'm lucky mine don't leak!

One thing to bare in mind. V6's will continue a downward trend of losing money. At some point the V8 4th gens are going to start gaining money just like the 3rd gens. Yes it might cost you more for the V8 but it will loose you less money during your ownership. Worth a thought.

[HairbearTE]

Im on my second 4th gen. Had a Z28 6sp new in 2000 and in a moment of weakness last year decided to relive my youth and bought a very nice 2002 SS 35LE, also a 6sp car. Don't regret it in the slightest, although I don't drive it every day, and not at all during winter. That's merely to keep milage low and condition good though, no other reason it couldn't be used daily. LHD you will be used to in a couple of weeks, and if you often use other vehicles you will soon start hopping between LHD and RHD without a care in the world. Paid parking machines and drive-thru McDs are the only ball ache imo, and it's a small price to pay for having such a fun car.

[spreadsheet monkey]

HairbearTE said:

last year decided to relive my youth and bought a very nice 2002 SS 35LE, also a 6sp car

Very nice. I remember seeing a couple of 35LE cars floating around in the classified ads a few months ago. Great looking car.

[irocfan]

If there was a choice I'd be looking at a WS6 T/A - though they are very rare across here and as such may well cost a premium. I used to own a 2000 SS (another rare car over here) and really liked that (prefer the T/A on looks though) the performance/mpg relationship is very very good indeed and mechanically it's damn near unburstable, the weakest point IIRC being the rear-end.

[spreadsheet monkey]

I'm not sure about the giant nostrils on the front end of the 4th gen T/A, but thanks for the advice. Will keep an eye out. Ideally I want a convertible but there aren't many on the market at the moment!

[erazernik]

I got my 1996 TA WS6 in 2007. Only 2050 built in 96 so quite a rare model.
Being pre-face lift, the ram air intake is a slimmer style.

I would though, agree that you should go for a V8.
I've never had any Optispark issues. Just don't buy cheep knockoff parts.

Mileage is about 31k, as I only use it over the summer.
I get spare /upgrade parts from the USA, unless it's oil filter/spark plugs etc.

http://www.ls1lt1.com/forum/ is a good place to visit for info on these cars.

Edited by erazernik on Tuesday 2nd February 19:56

[OverSteery]

I appear to be on my 3rd. Not gone topless though. All 3 have been Lt1 engined and in some ways I prefer it to the LS1 cars I've had. if you like low down grunt they take it. LT1 cars are also cheaper.
Parts aren't an issue.

http://www.americanautoparts.co.uk/home.htm are Surrey too.

I love them and its was my family car for may years.

they are relatively simple cars. whilst mildly exotic over here, it was america's ford capri. Simple, cheap and rugged.



There's a 35th anniversary convertible on eBay for 10k..

Edited by OverSteery on Monday 7th March 21:48

[twistedsanity]

There is also an LS engined SS on there for about £10k i have an lt1 engined SS and love it, mine has every option SLP did so there's not much left to do really, its a six speed daily driven car that i can drag race, track day or turn up to most motor shows in and get a warm reception, i can only echo getting a V8 car if funds alow, a manual will always be more desirable as they are few and far between as will an SS

[5ohmustang]

That v6 3.8 is crap. No power and bad mpg. Totally misses the point of a muscle car.

[LuS1fer]

5ohmustang said:

That v6 3.8 is crap. No power and bad mpg. Totally misses the point of a muscle car.

Technically, it's a pony car. Not alll pony cars aim to be muscle cars.
Secondly, the V8s have always been the minority sellers and, were it not for the sales of the V6, would not be commercially viable products.
Thirdly, while the old 3.8 200hp V6 is never going to set the world on fire, cars are bought for their style and distinctiveness and it is still more wow for your money than a Golf GTI. It wa also "of its time" - we once were blown away by 200hp Sierra Cosworths.
I agree that when it comes to the V6, you have to be more critical when weighing it up against what else might be available out there but venture to suggest that a manual T5 equipped car with T-tops would make an excellent car for the summer.

I suspect owners of the modern Camaro/Mustang V6 cars cry with laughter at the output of 80s and even 90s V8s.