3rd or 4th gen camaro?
Discussion
Hey everyone. Following on from my insurance question I just wondered what people opinions were on whether the later gen 3 models or earlier gen 4 models were better, I suppose I'm looking at 86-92 and 93-98. What do the economy of the cars like in comparison, rust, rot, reliability etc, overall which is the better car?
Cheers in advance
Cheers in advance
From what I remember, the 4th gens were better in just about every way... which is what you'd hope for of course, given how many years later it was developed. However, depending how often you're going to be using it, theres no reason a well kept 3rd gen couldn't be a good choice if you particularly felt more drawn to them.
The 4th gen gets better economy but more power. The suspension was better so most say the handling was improved too. The interior would certainly look more dated on a 3rd gen, particularly compared to a '97+ Camaro. Mind you, neither interior is exactly cutting edge these days, so if you could live with a 4th, you could probably also live with a 3rd, especially if it was only a toy. That point is probably true of a lot of comments you could make about these cars and as you've said it will be a weekend toy, either option could work for you
.
I'd have thought that if any of those cars that you may be looking at buying have made it to this age and they're still passing MOTs and have no visible signs of deterioration then they were bolted together corrected in the first place and then been looked after. I may be wrong on that point, so welcome correcting by anyone more knowledgable than me! IIRC, a lot of the body panels on the 4th gen were made of plastic, so at least they wouldn't rust, lol. The '97 Camaro I had was ten years old when I had it and the bodywork was pristine. I don't doubt there's still plenty of good ones available.
So, to sum up, the 4th gen was better, though if you particularly prefer the 3rd gen [maybe exterior styling?] then there'd be no harm hunting one down to see if the interior, handling and performance are acceptable to you. Head over heart would choose 4th, so unless there's something that draws you to 3rd, that's probably the answer you're after.
The 4th gen gets better economy but more power. The suspension was better so most say the handling was improved too. The interior would certainly look more dated on a 3rd gen, particularly compared to a '97+ Camaro. Mind you, neither interior is exactly cutting edge these days, so if you could live with a 4th, you could probably also live with a 3rd, especially if it was only a toy. That point is probably true of a lot of comments you could make about these cars and as you've said it will be a weekend toy, either option could work for you
. I'd have thought that if any of those cars that you may be looking at buying have made it to this age and they're still passing MOTs and have no visible signs of deterioration then they were bolted together corrected in the first place and then been looked after. I may be wrong on that point, so welcome correcting by anyone more knowledgable than me! IIRC, a lot of the body panels on the 4th gen were made of plastic, so at least they wouldn't rust, lol. The '97 Camaro I had was ten years old when I had it and the bodywork was pristine. I don't doubt there's still plenty of good ones available
.So, to sum up, the 4th gen was better, though if you particularly prefer the 3rd gen [maybe exterior styling?] then there'd be no harm hunting one down to see if the interior, handling and performance are acceptable to you. Head over heart would choose 4th, so unless there's something that draws you to 3rd, that's probably the answer you're after
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I've owned an 87 Z28 and a 4the gen Z28, albeit modified.
To many, the 4th gen looks too "Japanese" but in the flesh, their size pretty much destroys that "similarity". The 3rd gen is the more "classic" design.
Essentially though, the two handle similarly but the main difference is power.
Most 3rd gen V8s are 5.0 cars and can range from 145hp in 1982 up to 225hp in later cars (though many autos were limited to 205hp). In general, IROCs with the fuel injection are better than the carbed earlier Z28s and the Z28 became a sort of sub-IROC model in the 80s before reverting to top dog in 1990 when Chevy lost the rights to the IROC name. The 5.7 was far more rare and made 245hp. Many claim to be 5.7s but aren't so check the VIN. Some cars came with the sweet T5 manual but the higher power cars were auto only.
Note that the RS was a lower spec car with lower power up to 190hp for the single point injection system they used.
Interior-wise, the early 3rd gens are fragile hard plastic and pretty crap by any standard. The later 90-on cars were better.
Construction-wise, the 3rd gens are all steel bar the nose and rear bumper/skirts.
Corrosion-wise, the 3rd gens tend to go on the rear arches and the inner sills where the exhaust follows the inner sill.
The 4th gens from 93-97 used the infamous LT1 V8 with the Optispark distributor on the nose of the crank which, being in the path of water and road crap can be a source of issues. they came with 275hp, later 285 in 1996/7. The Z28 was displaced as top dog by the SS which made 305hp.
The superior all-alloy LS1 arrived in 1998 and was accompanied by the "peanut" shape headlights but the 98 uses a different computer to later ones and is less tunable. From 98-2000, the Z28 was sold here in Euro-spec (obvious from the rear bumper foglights) but still LHD but largely better specified.
The 4th gens came with the option of the 6 speed front-mounted T56 manual or the auto.
The 4th gens had plastic front wings, door skins and rear hatch/nose/bumpers but kept steel bonnet and rear wings.
Overall, the interior, while not the height of luxury, was far better. T-tops were better in terms of not leaking.
I modified my 4th gen with bigger 18" wheels/tyres, welded in subframe connectors, strut brace, lower control arms and Bilstein shocks and springs so it wasn't really representative but made it into a 4 seat Corvette in a way. I still miss mine.
Obviously the Firebirds are the same car, largely.
To many, the 4th gen looks too "Japanese" but in the flesh, their size pretty much destroys that "similarity". The 3rd gen is the more "classic" design.
Essentially though, the two handle similarly but the main difference is power.
Most 3rd gen V8s are 5.0 cars and can range from 145hp in 1982 up to 225hp in later cars (though many autos were limited to 205hp). In general, IROCs with the fuel injection are better than the carbed earlier Z28s and the Z28 became a sort of sub-IROC model in the 80s before reverting to top dog in 1990 when Chevy lost the rights to the IROC name. The 5.7 was far more rare and made 245hp. Many claim to be 5.7s but aren't so check the VIN. Some cars came with the sweet T5 manual but the higher power cars were auto only.
Note that the RS was a lower spec car with lower power up to 190hp for the single point injection system they used.
Interior-wise, the early 3rd gens are fragile hard plastic and pretty crap by any standard. The later 90-on cars were better.
Construction-wise, the 3rd gens are all steel bar the nose and rear bumper/skirts.
Corrosion-wise, the 3rd gens tend to go on the rear arches and the inner sills where the exhaust follows the inner sill.
The 4th gens from 93-97 used the infamous LT1 V8 with the Optispark distributor on the nose of the crank which, being in the path of water and road crap can be a source of issues. they came with 275hp, later 285 in 1996/7. The Z28 was displaced as top dog by the SS which made 305hp.
The superior all-alloy LS1 arrived in 1998 and was accompanied by the "peanut" shape headlights but the 98 uses a different computer to later ones and is less tunable. From 98-2000, the Z28 was sold here in Euro-spec (obvious from the rear bumper foglights) but still LHD but largely better specified.
The 4th gens came with the option of the 6 speed front-mounted T56 manual or the auto.
The 4th gens had plastic front wings, door skins and rear hatch/nose/bumpers but kept steel bonnet and rear wings.
Overall, the interior, while not the height of luxury, was far better. T-tops were better in terms of not leaking.
I modified my 4th gen with bigger 18" wheels/tyres, welded in subframe connectors, strut brace, lower control arms and Bilstein shocks and springs so it wasn't really representative but made it into a 4 seat Corvette in a way. I still miss mine.
Obviously the Firebirds are the same car, largely.
hi guys thanks for the really useful info, looks like il plump for a gen 4 then, as it will hopefully be for street strip so the extra hp might help.....just need to get a nice set of crager or american racing wheels for it!.....does anyone know what the width of the car is outside of wing mirror to outside of wing mirror??? i know the spec says 1880 ish but thats not including mirrors....basically i have a 2.1m garage door to get it through!!!..does anyone store their car outside or is it better to garage them? or use a car cover outdoors?
37chevy said:
does anyone know what the width of the car is outside of wing mirror to outside of wing mirror???
A lot of Camaros here are imports from Japan [my old one included] which have different wing mirrors to the models sold elsewhere. I can't remember exactly, but I think the Jap ones were something like 1" per side smaller, so would result in 2 or 3 inches less for the total width of the car. I'll see if I can find the figures.Yep mines the Jap version with the smaller folding mirrors. Forget about putting in your garage. You'll never get out, big doors! I've left mine outside for 4 years now. The only problem is my paints faded but it was like that when I bought the car.
To sum up.....
3rd Gen, looks great, but worse in most ways. However going up in value. £3.5 - £5k, thats for a mint one.
4th Gen pre facelift, reasonable power LT1, heavy engine but the cheapest to buy at the moment. £2.5 - £4.5k
4th Gen facelift, LS1 alloy engine so lighter (200kg's from memory), bit more expensive, £5k +
4th gen's the sensible choice. You get a sub 6 sec 0-60, 155mph + top end, LSD and you can still give modern Mustangs a run for there money!
To sum up.....
3rd Gen, looks great, but worse in most ways. However going up in value. £3.5 - £5k, thats for a mint one.
4th Gen pre facelift, reasonable power LT1, heavy engine but the cheapest to buy at the moment. £2.5 - £4.5k
4th Gen facelift, LS1 alloy engine so lighter (200kg's from memory), bit more expensive, £5k +
4th gen's the sensible choice. You get a sub 6 sec 0-60, 155mph + top end, LSD and you can still give modern Mustangs a run for there money!
Edited by Z28DUNC on Wednesday 29th February 11:00
The US camaros have fixed door mirrors but Euro-Camaros (98-2000) have folding mirrors though last time I checked these were £250 a side assuming they are even available any more.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/471412/1998-chevrole...
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/471412/1998-chevrole...
3rd gens look better but they're older technology so are less nice to drive and the cabins are quite poor than the 4th.
4th gens are much faster also.
the engines in the 4th gens are a nightmare to get at though if you want to service them, particularly getting at the plugs.
But despite being better the LT1 4th gens are fugly so could never have one, the later LS1 models are full of win though.
4th gens are much faster also.
the engines in the 4th gens are a nightmare to get at though if you want to service them, particularly getting at the plugs.
But despite being better the LT1 4th gens are fugly so could never have one, the later LS1 models are full of win though.
I prefer the look of the third gens
This is the one I just bought:
Its the 5.7. I reckon its good for 60 in about 7 secondsish
Im going to do a few mods to try to speed it up. Its more about the fun of driving the thing and the noise than anything. I have the 111R seen in the background for fast 0-60 (5.1s)
This is the one I just bought:
Its the 5.7. I reckon its good for 60 in about 7 secondsish
Im going to do a few mods to try to speed it up. Its more about the fun of driving the thing and the noise than anything. I have the 111R seen in the background for fast 0-60 (5.1s)
The 175hp 1987 Z28 with 4 barrel carb was 0-60 in 7.9 and the best I got over the quarter was 16.2 which still makes it as fast as an average Type R but without the need to sidestep the clutch at 6000rpm.
The later TBIs had 190hp so I would guesstimate around 16 seconds over the quarter.
I recall a test of a 200hp V6 with some drive belts removed which got 15.xx seconds over the quarter.
I test drove a 145hp Firebird and it never once felt slow on the road. That was a 4 barrel too.
The 5.7 3rd gen was good for mid 6's to 60 IIRC.
The later TBIs had 190hp so I would guesstimate around 16 seconds over the quarter.
I recall a test of a 200hp V6 with some drive belts removed which got 15.xx seconds over the quarter.
I test drove a 145hp Firebird and it never once felt slow on the road. That was a 4 barrel too.
The 5.7 3rd gen was good for mid 6's to 60 IIRC.
qube_TA said:
Not too difficult to rescue lost horses from a 3rd gen, my GTA was quite spritely before I sold it and all I did was desmog + headers + exhaust + TB & open filter and it was considerably quicker.
Do you mind me asking where you got the parts and who did the work for you? I'm looking to do the same.LuS1fer said:
The US camaros have fixed door mirrors but Euro-Camaros (98-2000) have folding mirrors though last time I checked these were £250 a side assuming they are even available any more.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/471412/1998-chevrole...
Yes, the euro mirrors (which were the style fitted to my Japanese export model) are a crazy price indeed and hard to get replacement glass for. I ended up buying a set of US style mirrors from the US which were relatively cheap and easy to fit...plus..imho..they look much better.http://www.cardomain.com/ride/471412/1998-chevrole...
By the way, if you end up going for a 4th gen LS1 then I'd definitely recommend fitting a set of long tube headers and then having the car dyno tuned. My car was no slouch before but I ended up with very nearly 370 hp at the rear wheels after having that done and it felt significantly quicker to drive..plus even better gas mileage.
PaulB81 said:
qube_TA said:
Not too difficult to rescue lost horses from a 3rd gen, my GTA was quite spritely before I sold it and all I did was desmog + headers + exhaust + TB & open filter and it was considerably quicker.
Do you mind me asking where you got the parts and who did the work for you? I'm looking to do the same.I did the work myself.
If you want to get someone to do the work for you then Robin @ http://www.autopontiac.co.uk/ is great and will look after you without taking the piss.
yabadaba said:
es, the euro mirrors (which were the style fitted to my Japanese export model) are a crazy price indeed and hard to get replacement glass for. I ended up buying a set of US style mirrors from the US which were relatively cheap and easy to fit...plus..imho..they look much better.
By the way, if you end up going for a 4th gen LS1 then I'd definitely recommend fitting a set of long tube headers and then having the car dyno tuned. My car was no slouch before but I ended up with very nearly 370 hp at the rear wheels after having that done and it felt significantly quicker to drive..plus even better gas mileage.
I've rad on the net that on an lt1 the pacesetter long tubes will give an extra 10-15hp and that a newer optics park or msd would be better too, is this true? Also what gas mileage difference was there pre and post mods?By the way, if you end up going for a 4th gen LS1 then I'd definitely recommend fitting a set of long tube headers and then having the car dyno tuned. My car was no slouch before but I ended up with very nearly 370 hp at the rear wheels after having that done and it felt significantly quicker to drive..plus even better gas mileage.
Also are the pacesetters road legal? I see on the pacesetter website it says they are for offload use only?
Edited by 37chevy on Friday 2nd March 21:05
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