Yank car for under £5000
Discussion
Hi, I expect this question has been asked a million times. Basically in the coming year I will be in a position to buy another car. When I spent time in the USA I drove around in a 2010 Mustang GT. I have to say I loved it, now I got the bug. Firstly I know buying a yank car and driving it in the UK is a different kettle of fish. But I will have around 5k to spend. Now I have seen I could get an old Camaro, Firebird, Mustang, Vette (at a push). Is their anything I am missing. I do have a thing for 80's american cars especially the Vette c4. If i went for a C4 for 5k would it be a dog? If so how much do you have to spend to get a half decent one?
Any pointers ideas appreciated
Any pointers ideas appreciated
I've had an 84 Vette for just over 11 years - you'll be able to pick up a late 80's Vette for 5k, theres plenty of Fox body stangs and 3rd/4th gen camaros should be in that price range, you can get cadilac sts's in that price range if your after a more family type car. Get a copy of Classic American or American Car theres plenty of stuff for sale in the back of it.
Theres pics of my vette here
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=102...
Phil.
Theres pics of my vette here
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=102...
Phil.
knottz said:
I've had an 84 Vette for just over 11 years - you'll be able to pick up a late 80's Vette for 5k, theres plenty of Fox body stangs and 3rd/4th gen camaros should be in that price range, you can get cadilac sts's in that price range if your after a more family type car. Get a copy of Classic American or American Car theres plenty of stuff for sale in the back of it.
Theres pics of my vette here
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=102...
Phil.
Ill second the Vette option, ive had an 85 for around 6 years now and love it.Theres pics of my vette here
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=102...
Phil.
Thanks for the help! Yeah I was hoping somebody was going to say a vette was a valid option. SO next question would be (How long is a piece of string) Whats your yearly running costs? Ive looked and insurance for me will be 1000 quid a year if I were to do 2000 miles! But I would only use it throughout summer etc but thats with your usual insurers not specialists. Plus no tax i'm presuming for something thats older than me? (im 27) I've heard fuel consumption aint all that bad for a big old beast either.
I suppose what I am asking is what is it like to live with. I can guess the good points but whats the bad? I need to make an informed decision.
Eitherway I'm sure my future parishioners will love it lol
I suppose what I am asking is what is it like to live with. I can guess the good points but whats the bad? I need to make an informed decision.
Eitherway I'm sure my future parishioners will love it lol
vicar1 said:
Thanks for the help! Yeah I was hoping somebody was going to say a vette was a valid option. SO next question would be (How long is a piece of string) Whats your yearly running costs? Ive looked and insurance for me will be 1000 quid a year if I were to do 2000 miles! But I would only use it throughout summer etc but thats with your usual insurers not specialists. Plus no tax i'm presuming for something thats older than me? (im 27) I've heard fuel consumption aint all that bad for a big old beast either.
I suppose what I am asking is what is it like to live with. I can guess the good points but whats the bad? I need to make an informed decision.
Eitherway I'm sure my future parishioners will love it lol
Ive had mine for 6 years and touch wood it hasn't broken anything more expensive than a relay so my only costs have been servicing and wear and tear items but parts prices are not bad at all and easily available next day delivery from a lot of places. Insurance for me is £170 for 3000 miles a year (I'm 40). Tax is only free on pre 31st December 1972 cars so tax runs at £118.25 for 6 and £215 for 12 months. I don't use mine a great deal but if I had too I wouldn't hesitate to drive it every day. I have managed 27mpg on a decent motorway run but for mine (An 85 TPI) expect around 18 - 22 mpg. So can you live with one every day, that all depends what you are used too but I defiantly could.I suppose what I am asking is what is it like to live with. I can guess the good points but whats the bad? I need to make an informed decision.
Eitherway I'm sure my future parishioners will love it lol
Insurance seems quite high. Have you tried Flux?
I had a Corvette C4 as a daily driver for 3 years from 1994-1997 (85 TPI model).
General issues - the seals in the targa go and they can leak onto the seats. My "cure" was putting a tea-towel on the seat to absorb the water that got in. That was with a new targa too.
Check the floor - some idiots have been known to jack it up on the fibreglass.
They tend to be reliable. Mine had the following issues:
(1) The digital display failed - common fault through dried out joints - it cost me £500 back then but if you watch Mike Brewer's Wheeler Dealers (they did an 84 C4), it seems you can get them for far less now (he mentioned £200).
(2) Headlamp motors - these have cheap nylon gears and do and will strip (constant whirring even when down). Early motors can be split and repaired but I think later motors are sealed.
(3) The heater matrix went - it's a b
h to get at but can be done by stripping down the dash.
(4) Paint issues - the fibreglass can aerate from underneath causing the paint to bubble so ensure you check it carefully.
(5) Brake pads - easily fitted.
(6) Misfire - cured by new O2 sensors.
(7) Handbrake cables can seize especially on autos which tend to get less used and they run through the sill.
In brief, avoid the '84 which has the 205hp Crossfire engine and over-hard suspension.
The 1985-1990s use the Tuned Port Injection engine with convetional distributor and vary from 235-250hp. You used to be able to get performance chips quite easily to firm up the gearshift on autos and add a bit of power. On that score, a K&N filter is worth having for around £60.
The 1991 got the facelift with the smoother lines but retained the old engine.
The 1992 got the LT1 300hp engine with the occasionally troublesome Optispark ignition - a new unit is about £600 and fitting is difficult.
So for me a 1991 facelift with the old engine would be a good buy and they are plenty fast enough. They also got the facelifted interior and the new 6 speed manual which replaced the largely crappy 4+3 (overdrive) manual on the earlier models. However, these may be out of your price range and most will probably be autos anyway.
In general, the Corvette is not a well-built car and they can rattle and have bits fall off so a monthly trip round the car's interior with a crosshead screwdriver is worthh doing. Spare parts are readily available (from US Automotive, Claremont Corvette or Corvette Kingdom amongst others)but even in the US, tend to carry a "Corvette tax" which means they are marked-up because "Corvette drivers can afford it" - or maybe it's a smaller volume car than your average Mustang.
That said, I LOVED mine. It was an auto and would embarrass many a so-called fast car. However, buy on condition, buy the best you can, make sure everything works and that there are no misfires. Remain objective as they are easy to be over-awed by. There are plenty of rubbish cars out there.
Watch for the tyre size as they are awkward to get hold of (255/50 x 16 on mine and I had to go down to 245/45s at one point).
I had a Corvette C4 as a daily driver for 3 years from 1994-1997 (85 TPI model).
General issues - the seals in the targa go and they can leak onto the seats. My "cure" was putting a tea-towel on the seat to absorb the water that got in. That was with a new targa too.
Check the floor - some idiots have been known to jack it up on the fibreglass.
They tend to be reliable. Mine had the following issues:
(1) The digital display failed - common fault through dried out joints - it cost me £500 back then but if you watch Mike Brewer's Wheeler Dealers (they did an 84 C4), it seems you can get them for far less now (he mentioned £200).
(2) Headlamp motors - these have cheap nylon gears and do and will strip (constant whirring even when down). Early motors can be split and repaired but I think later motors are sealed.
(3) The heater matrix went - it's a b
h to get at but can be done by stripping down the dash.(4) Paint issues - the fibreglass can aerate from underneath causing the paint to bubble so ensure you check it carefully.
(5) Brake pads - easily fitted.
(6) Misfire - cured by new O2 sensors.
(7) Handbrake cables can seize especially on autos which tend to get less used and they run through the sill.
In brief, avoid the '84 which has the 205hp Crossfire engine and over-hard suspension.
The 1985-1990s use the Tuned Port Injection engine with convetional distributor and vary from 235-250hp. You used to be able to get performance chips quite easily to firm up the gearshift on autos and add a bit of power. On that score, a K&N filter is worth having for around £60.
The 1991 got the facelift with the smoother lines but retained the old engine.
The 1992 got the LT1 300hp engine with the occasionally troublesome Optispark ignition - a new unit is about £600 and fitting is difficult.
So for me a 1991 facelift with the old engine would be a good buy and they are plenty fast enough. They also got the facelifted interior and the new 6 speed manual which replaced the largely crappy 4+3 (overdrive) manual on the earlier models. However, these may be out of your price range and most will probably be autos anyway.
In general, the Corvette is not a well-built car and they can rattle and have bits fall off so a monthly trip round the car's interior with a crosshead screwdriver is worthh doing. Spare parts are readily available (from US Automotive, Claremont Corvette or Corvette Kingdom amongst others)but even in the US, tend to carry a "Corvette tax" which means they are marked-up because "Corvette drivers can afford it" - or maybe it's a smaller volume car than your average Mustang.
That said, I LOVED mine. It was an auto and would embarrass many a so-called fast car. However, buy on condition, buy the best you can, make sure everything works and that there are no misfires. Remain objective as they are easy to be over-awed by. There are plenty of rubbish cars out there.
Watch for the tyre size as they are awkward to get hold of (255/50 x 16 on mine and I had to go down to 245/45s at one point).
Edited by LuS1fer on Monday 9th January 10:08
Some really good points their gents. thanks. It would have to be auto anyway as thats all I got on my licence and thats why I think American cars appeal to me because a majority of them are auto. But everywhere I have been looking people have said how reliable they are which is good to hear.
Are their any dealers in this country that would sell c4's. I know they can only sell what they have, but I would feel more comfortable purchasing from an actual garage?
I have looked at the websites mentioned in earlier posts but they do not have any. Is it a case of sitting tight and hoping something will come up? Do they tend to sell quick as well?
Cheers again
Are their any dealers in this country that would sell c4's. I know they can only sell what they have, but I would feel more comfortable purchasing from an actual garage?
I have looked at the websites mentioned in earlier posts but they do not have any. Is it a case of sitting tight and hoping something will come up? Do they tend to sell quick as well?
Cheers again
You won't generally find any dealers for cars that old. Claremont Corvette tend to sell classic examples of Corvettes at high prices and I think the only other "Yank dealer" is Spurr Classics who have got mixed reviews and you'll pay more.
You would be better off asking in the Corvette section as someone may be thinking of selling. I've seen some good cars on ebay so don't dismiss it. In effect, they are a simple backbone chassis, engine at the front, gearbox at the front - everything underneath can be seen. Check the exhausts as replacement isn't always cheap.
The Camaro is a different kettle of fish altogether. I had a 1987 Z28 as a daily driver and certainly the earlier ones are pretty crappy inside. They have far more rust issues and again come in various guises:
The basic one is the V6 which have 2.8 and later 3.2 (or 4) engines.
The V8s come in a basic 5.0 RS package but they drive more like a saloon car and you'd want either a Z28 or an IROC (Z28 was top model until supplemented by the IROC in 1985 though confusingly the Z28 continued. The car reverted to Z28 in 1990 and sprouted a pedestal wing.)
The V8s are mainly 5.0 ranging from 145hp in 1982 but power depends on model and a late RS will have 190hp single point fuel injection as opposed to the Z28s 205hp (in auto form)multi-point injection) with varying outputs in between. The 5.7s are few and far between and many advertised as 5.7s are actually 5.0s.
They suffer rust on the rear arches and on the inner sills. As noted, earlier interiors are very plasticky.
The sister car, the Firebird, follows a similar lineup with Trans Am replacing Z28/IROC.
Your other option is the 4th gen Camaro (1993-2002). The earlier generation (93-97), in V8 form, all have either 275 or later 285hp (305 for the "new top dog" SS)and feature the same engine as the later C4 Corvettes with the Optispark. the V6s are 3.4 (160hp)or later 3.8 (190hp).
These have plastic front wings, door skins and rear hatch so are more resilient to rust but still have steel bonnets and rear wings.
These will certainly fall within your budget and the Firebird Trans Am is a better-looking option if you don't like the Camaro's looks.
I also ran a 4th gen Z28 for over 3 years as a daily driver albeit in 1998 LS1 engine form. these used to be obtainable for £5k but they are increasingly hard to find.
As an example, this sort of car is hard to beat on a bang for buck "4 seater Corvette" basis (ignoring the horrific non-standard wheels)and would give you a large reserve fund to mod it to your tastes - Bilstein shocks, nice set of 18" wheels etc.
http://pistonheads.co.uk/sales/3199517.htm
You would be better off asking in the Corvette section as someone may be thinking of selling. I've seen some good cars on ebay so don't dismiss it. In effect, they are a simple backbone chassis, engine at the front, gearbox at the front - everything underneath can be seen. Check the exhausts as replacement isn't always cheap.
The Camaro is a different kettle of fish altogether. I had a 1987 Z28 as a daily driver and certainly the earlier ones are pretty crappy inside. They have far more rust issues and again come in various guises:
The basic one is the V6 which have 2.8 and later 3.2 (or 4) engines.
The V8s come in a basic 5.0 RS package but they drive more like a saloon car and you'd want either a Z28 or an IROC (Z28 was top model until supplemented by the IROC in 1985 though confusingly the Z28 continued. The car reverted to Z28 in 1990 and sprouted a pedestal wing.)
The V8s are mainly 5.0 ranging from 145hp in 1982 but power depends on model and a late RS will have 190hp single point fuel injection as opposed to the Z28s 205hp (in auto form)multi-point injection) with varying outputs in between. The 5.7s are few and far between and many advertised as 5.7s are actually 5.0s.
They suffer rust on the rear arches and on the inner sills. As noted, earlier interiors are very plasticky.
The sister car, the Firebird, follows a similar lineup with Trans Am replacing Z28/IROC.
Your other option is the 4th gen Camaro (1993-2002). The earlier generation (93-97), in V8 form, all have either 275 or later 285hp (305 for the "new top dog" SS)and feature the same engine as the later C4 Corvettes with the Optispark. the V6s are 3.4 (160hp)or later 3.8 (190hp).
These have plastic front wings, door skins and rear hatch so are more resilient to rust but still have steel bonnets and rear wings.
These will certainly fall within your budget and the Firebird Trans Am is a better-looking option if you don't like the Camaro's looks.
I also ran a 4th gen Z28 for over 3 years as a daily driver albeit in 1998 LS1 engine form. these used to be obtainable for £5k but they are increasingly hard to find.
As an example, this sort of car is hard to beat on a bang for buck "4 seater Corvette" basis (ignoring the horrific non-standard wheels)and would give you a large reserve fund to mod it to your tastes - Bilstein shocks, nice set of 18" wheels etc.
http://pistonheads.co.uk/sales/3199517.htm
Edited by LuS1fer on Monday 9th January 13:42
See thats quite a nice looking car. I don't like the Pontiacs that are the same shape though. Only difference is the headlights I like them set back like that.
You have been a star and shown my I could get something half decent and its good to know they all seem to run without too much hassle. I just really like the 80's dash in the corvette though. Thiers just something so bad about it that makes it good!
But looking about I have not seem many C4's but I have seen alot of Pontiacs and Camaro's and the likes. Is this the norm?
You have been a star and shown my I could get something half decent and its good to know they all seem to run without too much hassle. I just really like the 80's dash in the corvette though. Thiers just something so bad about it that makes it good!
But looking about I have not seem many C4's but I have seen alot of Pontiacs and Camaro's and the likes. Is this the norm?
Have a look in the back of Classic American - you may also be able to access the ads online, I'm not sure.
There will always be less Vettes than Camaros. It was nearly twice the price in the US but not twice the performance. Some C4s have also not been looked after and have fallen into the hands of the impecunious and not looked after. there is nothing worse than a basket-case yank bought on a foolish idea it can be "done up" as while parts aren't expensive, shipping is.
Gone are the days of $2 to the £1 and with 20% VAT, it has pushed parts prices up. I would still rate my Corvette as one of the cheapest cars I ever owned because as long as you maintain them and keep them roadworthy, they will keep their value. I lost £1000 in depreciation on mine after 3 years.
However, a set of rubber seals can run into hundreds, a targa roof costs about £2500 if you break it (ask how I know though I managed to find one for £900)and once the paint goes, you're looking at £3000 at least for a proper respray which is why condition is so important.
A few years ago, I saw 3 on ebay all at the same time and was quite tempted by a teal 91 C4 but managed to resist. the good thing about the Camaro is that it alleges it has been maintained regardless of cost. Ultimately, it has 25hp more than most early C4s. They don't handle as well (but aren't bad) but the T-tops are as good as a targa and the seals tend to be better.
Like you, given the choice, I'd take a Corvette C4 but they are all at least 15 years old now. You might try going to some of the shows like Billing in the summer as cars often get put up for sale there.
There will always be less Vettes than Camaros. It was nearly twice the price in the US but not twice the performance. Some C4s have also not been looked after and have fallen into the hands of the impecunious and not looked after. there is nothing worse than a basket-case yank bought on a foolish idea it can be "done up" as while parts aren't expensive, shipping is.
Gone are the days of $2 to the £1 and with 20% VAT, it has pushed parts prices up. I would still rate my Corvette as one of the cheapest cars I ever owned because as long as you maintain them and keep them roadworthy, they will keep their value. I lost £1000 in depreciation on mine after 3 years.
However, a set of rubber seals can run into hundreds, a targa roof costs about £2500 if you break it (ask how I know though I managed to find one for £900)and once the paint goes, you're looking at £3000 at least for a proper respray which is why condition is so important.
A few years ago, I saw 3 on ebay all at the same time and was quite tempted by a teal 91 C4 but managed to resist. the good thing about the Camaro is that it alleges it has been maintained regardless of cost. Ultimately, it has 25hp more than most early C4s. They don't handle as well (but aren't bad) but the T-tops are as good as a targa and the seals tend to be better.
Like you, given the choice, I'd take a Corvette C4 but they are all at least 15 years old now. You might try going to some of the shows like Billing in the summer as cars often get put up for sale there.
I can't help thinking that the OP will struggle to get anything but a pre-85 C4 for £5000. Prices seem to generally float around £7-9k+ for late 80s models. Bearing in mind that these cars will be between 20-25 years old, stretching the budget out leaves less spare cash for inevitable repairs and maintenance costs.
I think a car like the 4th gen Camaro is probably the way forward. For £3200 that also leaves a big chunk for your budget for any work the car may need.
My personal preference would be the 3rd generation Camaro, but they’re hard to find in anything other than basic ‘RS’ guise and there are a lot of rough ones about.
I think a car like the 4th gen Camaro is probably the way forward. For £3200 that also leaves a big chunk for your budget for any work the car may need.
My personal preference would be the 3rd generation Camaro, but they’re hard to find in anything other than basic ‘RS’ guise and there are a lot of rough ones about.
I am also in the same position as the OP.
I had a 3rd gen Camaro about 5 years ago and after trying to be sensible with other cars I just want another V8.
My budget is about the same (£5k) and it does look like I will be going for a 4th gen Camaro or Trans Am (I do like the Trans Am more).
Would love an LS1 but as Lusifer said they are very rare and prices on them seem to be creeping up.
Still I will be happy with a LT1 as my ultimate aim is for a C5 or C6 'vette in a few years time.
Oh and first post here!
I had a 3rd gen Camaro about 5 years ago and after trying to be sensible with other cars I just want another V8.
My budget is about the same (£5k) and it does look like I will be going for a 4th gen Camaro or Trans Am (I do like the Trans Am more).
Would love an LS1 but as Lusifer said they are very rare and prices on them seem to be creeping up.
Still I will be happy with a LT1 as my ultimate aim is for a C5 or C6 'vette in a few years time.
Oh and first post here!
Hmmmm Corvette would be a dream but the Camaro looks like the clever money to me? Just had a looksy on autotrader and their are some rather reasonably priced ones on their. I'll have to do some swatting up in the very near future and get to know the different gen's (Think 3rd and 4th)(http://www.autotrader.co.uk/search/used/cars/chevrolet/camaro/postcode/ba213tr/radius/1500/quicksearch/true)(The top three seem nice? but they seem pretty clean and low milage for the year. As everybody has been saying it would leave a few pennies over to spend on it. Perhaps it could be the way to go for my first yank car over here. Something cheap that I could run for hopefully a year, see how I get on and if I like it maybe upgrade if not flog it on! I dont care as long as its auto. Power and performance do not bother me in the slightest, its just for posing
vicar1 said:
Hmmmm Corvette would be a dream but the Camaro looks like the clever money to me? Just had a looksy on autotrader and their are some rather reasonably priced ones on their. I'll have to do some swatting up in the very near future and get to know the different gen's (Think 3rd and 4th) http://www.autotrader.co.uk/search/used/cars/chevr... (The top three seem nice? but they seem pretty clean and low milage for the year. As everybody has been saying it would leave a few pennies over to spend on it. Perhaps it could be the way to go for my first yank car over here. Something cheap that I could run for hopefully a year, see how I get on and if I like it maybe upgrade if not flog it on! I dont care as long as its auto. Power and performance do not bother me in the slightest, its just for posing
3rd gen - 1982 to 19924th gen - 1993-1997 and facelift "peanut headlight" 1998-2002.
While I've not got anything against the V6, the insurance may be little different, the fuel consumption will be very much the same and VEL is the same. The V6 spec is far more basic than the Z28 and was really a "base car" which doesn't even have a rear sway bar and won't have a limited slip diff. the wheels are narrower and they are usually restricted to I think it's 105/115mph because they fitted tyres of a lower speed rating to keep the costs down. There is a sport option which can be decoded from the build sheet but I think they were manual only. When you buy a V6, you WILL lust after a V8. having driven even a 3rd gen RS V8 and a 3rd gen Z28, the RS is like driving a saloon car - the Z28 isn't.
The Z28 is a far better car than the V6 in terms of handling, performance (160mph)and spec with bigger brakes, LSD etc AND it will be easier to sell when you decide to move on. As I've indicated, make sure the car is misfire free as a new Optispark is/was about £600 before the exchange rate fell. the Optispark is a direct drive "distributor" on the nose of the crank where it is susceptible to rain, standing water and coolant refills. It's labour-intensive to change so make sure the car doesn't misfire. Many will already have been changed as the original 93s had no vent (remedied on the 94s).
I have driven a manual 4th gen V6 but only round town on a test drive and it's by no means a bad car but won't be any cheaper to run. Any mods to a Z28 will also enhance it to some degree but mods to a V6 probably won't make a lot of difference to the resale price and because they were sold officially in the UK, there are more of them. Still worth a look though if you can find a nice one.
Hi cheers for that. So did they only do an auto as a V6. Sorry for being a bit dense. Not sure bout the ones with 'peanut headlights' they looka bit normal if you see what I mean? But I have a good idea on where to go from here. I may go the Camaro route and work me way up to something bigger, butit might be enough to get the bug
No they do the auto across the range. Manuals are rare in any event.
By "peanut" I mean the 98-on monkey nut in the shell shape - the earlier ones are the twin oblong recessed ones.
Check the gearbox shifts smoothly in all gears forward and also reverse as they can be a weak link if they've been abused. Check for some history of gearbox oil and filter changes too. An auto gearbox rebuild can be over £1000 so if in doubt, walk away. Some notchiness and "shunt" is normal, you're looking for anything that suggests not being smooth or not taking up the drive.
By "peanut" I mean the 98-on monkey nut in the shell shape - the earlier ones are the twin oblong recessed ones.
Check the gearbox shifts smoothly in all gears forward and also reverse as they can be a weak link if they've been abused. Check for some history of gearbox oil and filter changes too. An auto gearbox rebuild can be over £1000 so if in doubt, walk away. Some notchiness and "shunt" is normal, you're looking for anything that suggests not being smooth or not taking up the drive.
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