fancy a yank

[pitbull turbo]

about a year ago something triggered in my tiny head that was very different to my normal liking! I wanted a yank car! It started off with the normal charger/ challanger/ corvette thing! Now as I have been looking more and more I like the different less know cars like the transam 400 bullnose and old camaro's!
What I really fancy is a 1970 camaro rs with a 7.4 block and manual gearbox!

Now my budget I doubt will go to that so really looking at a 3rd gen camaro with a v8 or something simular!
What choices do I have?
1) It must seat 4 and needs to fit a baby seat in the back.
2) Budget nor more than 5k but that requires loosing lots of savings so 3k would be better!
3) Reliable and easy to maintain with good part source.
4) V8 only
5) Cheapish to insure and tax, mpg not so much a problem as this year I done 3k in my play around car!
6) Not rust like my mk1 escort did!

Now I know that's hard act to follow and I'm not even sure I'll like lhd and doubt even more if I'll like a bad auot slush box but I have decided there to cool to look at and the noise and drama is what I want! On the plus side and I think I'll be dreaming but a good car for B road basting and good handling very welcombe!

Also whi fixes cars like this in the uk?

[balls-out]

For 5k you are well into 4th gen Camaro teritory. 6sp Manuals are available if you don't want an auto. there are a few z28 for not much more than £3k,although I don't know what state they are in. there's one in the classified at 4k with 50k miles.
plenty of room in the back for mid-sized children. My daughter has only recently started objecting as she got to 5ft 7.
Keeping them going is easy - parts cheap - its one of the most common us imports. where abouts are you?

I've just decided not to sell my second z28 - just too difficult to find a replacement.

[LuS1fer]

The first gen Camaro (67-69) is a classic and way w ay beyond your budget.
The second gens (1970-1981) up to 1972 like bullnoses are also going to be way beyond your budget. 1972 saw the unleaded kick in, the power drop and low compression engines were the order of the day.
Sadly, 2nd gens rot like buggery. We almost took one apart with our hands to get the engine it was so rotten. Under the rear window and in the roof pillars. In later cars, the plastic bumpers tend to hide lots of rust that has formed in a nice plastic moisture trap. Whavk it and it usually sghowers out. In short, a good one will cost you a lot of money.
3rd gens (82-92) are getting old now and are also starting to appreciate. The good thing about 3rd gens is thety handle quite nicely but again, they can rot in the sills. The downside is the power. In 1982 they had 145hp and as a rule of thumb the Z28 gained about 10hp year on year. The fuel-injected IROC made between 195 and 225hp (autos 205)depending on year. However, buy on condition as I've driven a 145hp car and it still feels very grunty indeed even if a 0-60 of over 8 seconds isn't going to frighten you.
The best bargains are the 4th gens. these came in two varieties - the 1993-1997 Z28 which had the LT1 iron engine (275/285hp in Z28 and 305 or more in the SS)which had GM's unfortunate Optispark ignition - an ingenious device driven off the end of the crank where all the water could get to it making it an item requiring replacement (the early ones didn't even have a vent so were soon toast). The better cars were the 1998-2002 cars which had the Corvette C5's LS1 all-alloy 305hp engine (286 in Euro versions). What you lose in looks, you gain in power and the 4th gen has plastic wings, doors and T-bar so rust is less of an issue and there are plenty of tuning parts for it. You're still going to be looking at £5k or more for one though.

[pitbull turbo]

I did think the 2nÐ gens would be out of reach but for me the older they are/look the cooler they are. I have been brought up on classic cars and started helping my dad restore the at the age of 7! His was 60' english stuff he liked but I'm started to really like american! Done the british thing and loved it but need something different!

I think the 3rd gen is my best bet as I don't really like the look of the 4th gen!
I'm also open to other muscle cars like mustangs and corvettes but the 2 seats ruin the corvette dream as a string ray would be amazing!

To be fair if the perfect car came up I could streach to 8-10 k but don't tell the o/h! She is a good girl though and wants me to get a muscle car rather than our mazda 6 mps!

So is there a better car than the camaro for what I need and are the camaro's better than the firebird/transam?

I live in maidenhead berkshire!
Also if anyone owns a car like I'm after or even just cool cars I'm always up for a coffee and a chat and a drive about even if for now I'm in my mazda

[LuS1fer]

The Fox Mustangs are cheap and unloved and they have around 215hp in the 90s but they have much less room in the back than a Camaro. In general, they were always outperformed by the Camaro Z28.

The older classic stuff is now very expensive whatever the marque though there are some cars you cal look at like the Mercury Cougar (basically a Mustang underneath) whose values have always been far lower. My friend picked one up for £5k not so long ago.

The Camaro and Firebird from the 3rd gen on are identical save for body-style and interiors (Firebird was the plusher save for the stripped out "Formula" which always got the nod in the road tests). Obviously with Firebirds you have the additional maintenance of the pop-up lights and everyone callig you Knight Rider (probably in their 40s by now...).

[pitbull turbo]

ok so really looking at something mid 80's to early 90's which is ok! What are later mustangs like?
If I was going for either a pontiac or camaro it will be the camaro every time as they look much better!

I ideally would like 300bhp+ but I guess that's a tall order unless I suffer looks.

[LuS1fer]

pitbull turbo said:

ok so really looking at something mid 80's to early 90's which is ok! What are later mustangs like?
If I was going for either a pontiac or camaro it will be the camaro every time as they look much better!

I ideally would like 300bhp+ but I guess that's a tall order unless I suffer looks.

It's very odd because I had a 3rd gen and couldn't wait to buy a 4th gen. I love the subtlety of the design with the S shaped side flanks and they can be made to have a great stance plus the all-alloy LS1 means never having to change brown coolant ever again. They are fast in a way a 3rd gen can only dream of as most 3rd gens are 5.0s not the rarer 5.7 (which was auto only due to torque issues).

Only the manual 3rd gen 5.0 made the 225ho, the auto had 205. Still not bad cars but their failings are mainly rigidity as the T-tops (far more leak-proof in the 4th gen) make the body somewhat flexible uless you weld on sub-frame connectors and slap on a strut brace.

The 3rd gen manuals used a nice 5 speed T5 box where 200hp was about the limit whereas the 4th gens used a T56 6 speed box which was far more obstructive.

Fox Mustangs I don't have any experience of save they tend to be quite cheap and are usually negotiable. To be honest, you may have a very limited choice since there seem to be far less F-body cars from GM round than there used to be. The Foxes use a 5.0 in earlier iterations (again, the older the less powerful if you wander into the "Escort-looking" 80s models) and a 2v 4.6 in the later models.
The main issues on these relate to head gaskets on the V6 and occasional dry suspension issues but otherwise they seem reliable though are far less straightforward than the good old pushrod in the GM cars which you can service with a fish fork and minimal skill. The early F-body 3rd gen interiors are somewhat fragile and may have cracked dash tops and other bits of fascia.

[balls-out]

pitbull turbo said:

ok so really looking at something mid 80's to early 90's which is ok! What are later mustangs like?
If I was going for either a pontiac or camaro it will be the camaro every time as they look much better!

I ideally would like 300bhp+ but I guess that's a tall order unless I suffer looks.

Obviously looks are a personal thing, and I agree the 4th gen's aren't to all tastes, but in a bland bmw/merc metalic silver world, it nice to have a car wth genuine character. You may find they grow on you. Personally I couldn't cope with the later LS1 looks and was somewhat reluctant about the LT1's looks too. Now I rather like it.

Regardless you can't see the car from inside, just feel 300 lbft torque and hear detroit's finest noise

[Motown Junk]

balls-out said:

...and hear detroit's finest noise

What? The MC5?

What about this? - old,RHD,back seat,V8 - needs some bits doing, but on the road and tre cool and no end of bits to make it go faster...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1968-Plymouth-Barracuda-...

[pitbull turbo]

I perfere the classic look although maybe the 4th gens would grow on me! When we say easy to tune what sort of level are we talking? I had a high powered rwd skyline and I'd love the same 500 bhp say but v8 power this time around, it would be a little saving up but I want a car to keep so that's why I'm trying to find a car I'd love and want to keep for many years to come

[pitbull turbo]

I perfere the classic look although maybe the 4th gens would grow on me! When we say easy to tune what sort of level are we talking? I had a high powered rwd skyline and I'd love the same 500 bhp say but v8 power this time around, it would be a little saving up but I want a car to keep so that's why I'm trying to find a car I'd love and want to keep for many years to come

[LuS1fer]

Most V8 power upgrades are by supercharger which are not cheap anymore on the dollar rate. The other thing is that shipping costs for larger parts are crippling and most F-bodies require welded subframe connectors, strut brace and lowered suspension to sort the handling and then probably bigger brakes, certainly better pads. Cams and bigger fuel pumps may be cheaper but harder to tune. the other thing to note is that 98 and before 4th gen computers are not catered for in terms of hand-held tuners.

The other option ios a GM crate engine.

[pitbull turbo]

So really to get more power its not worth it? How about the 4th gen ls1 engined cars?

[pitbull turbo]

So really to get more power its not worth it? How about the 4th gen ls1 engined cars?

[LuS1fer]

Much the same. An LS1 centrifugal supercharger kit is north of $6000. There are guys who ship containers to keep the shipping cost down but it's not cheap. the advantage of the LS1 is though they advertised 305hp, it was nearer the Vette's 345 so my Camaro Z28 ran the quarter in 13.8 at over 105mph compared to my 1987 3rd gen 175hp 4 barrel 5.0 Z28 which did it in 16.2. My friends 205hp 1990 Z28 auto did the quarter around 15.5 so as you can see the 98 Z28 is fast out of the box.

The figures for the 1998 Euro Z28 were 0-100 in 13 seconds (manual) and 0-60 in the mid 5's.

[300bhp/ton]

LuS1fer said:

Most V8 power upgrades are by supercharger which are not cheap anymore on the dollar rate. The other thing is that shipping costs for larger parts are crippling and most F-bodies require welded subframe connectors, strut brace and lowered suspension to sort the handling and then probably bigger brakes, certainly better pads. Cams and bigger fuel pumps may be cheaper but harder to tune. the other thing to note is that 98 and before 4th gen computers are not catered for in terms of hand-held tuners.

The other option ios a GM crate engine.

That's a bit miss leading. LT1's respond very well to bolt ons and LS1's even better.

400hp is doable and fairly easy without changing anything more major than the exhaust. Cam and/or head work will also liberate a good number of ponies too.

Forced induction is one route and quite a costly one.

[LuS1fer]

300bhp/ton said:

400hp is doable and fairly easy without changing anything more major than the exhaust.

Seriously....let's have the link then.

[balls-out]

pitbull turbo said:

So really to get more power its not worth it? How about the 4th gen ls1 engined cars?

I would have said that both the LT and LS were massively tunable. Admittedly you can just turn up the boost like some motors. At 300 odd bhp from 5.7 litre, they are hardly pushing the bhp/cc boundaries.

It depressing that bits that are so cheap in the US end up rather expensive in the UK, by the time shipping and taxes take effect

[300bhp/ton]

pitbull turbo said:

So really to get more power its not worth it? How about the 4th gen ls1 engined cars?

As just said, there is plenty of tuning scope. The Ls1 motor is IMO a better motor than the LT1, but the LT1 is still capable and there is plenty of hp available for little extra cost.

But it all depends what you want to achieve at the end of the day and why.

Taking a few steps back to your OP.

£3k doesn't give you the biggest scope of cars to choose from.

Sadly mid/late 70's and early 80's saw American performance cars at their lowest speed wise. But they can all be fixed.

That said, £3k is likely to buy you a better 80's or early 90's car.

In terms of handling, all American cars are biggish, so don't expect hot hatch nimbleness. And most are fairly softly setup in stock trim. Although not all.

I guess I'll be repeating what others have already said.

Fox body Mustangs are a great bet and during the 80's and early 90's showed the way over the Fbodys.

They aren't the most striking looking, but they do carry a weight advantage tipping the scales nearer the 1400kg mark.

They are as rare as hens teeth in the UK though. But I've seen them ranging from £1800 to £5k.

They are a very good platform though. The 5.0 (302ci) V8 is lovely. Not hugely powerful, max was 225hp in 91/92 But still enough for 0-60mph in 6.5 sec and 140mph plus.

But 300hp is easy and 330 with heads and cam and in a light weigh car it'll really fly.

There are 3 main variants.

The tarted up GT



The cleaner look LX (same engine, earlier GT's looked like this too)


And my fav, the notch back.



But as said, finding one of these is not an easy thing.

In 1994 Ford introduced the sn95 Mustang. It's actually still the same platform as the Foxbody's. But a bit more wow looking and a tad heavier. 1994 & 95 used the same 5.0 V8 but with different electronics that make it harder to tune. As it's heavier performance is bit blunted too.



You do see these for £4k'ish and within budget. Certainly more striking looking than the Fox's but I personally prefer the Foxbodies.

In 1996 Ford introduced the OHV modular 4.6 engine. It made the same power as the 5.0 and was no quicker. It looked the same. Not the most tunable engine either, but it's ok.

In 1999 Ford revamped the styling to the "new age" look. A lot sharper and they also received the PI upgrade (power improvement) with hp rising to 260hp. A fair chunk faster but at this point in time a long way behind the GM offerings.

I suspect you'll struggle to get one of these within budget unless you go V6 (I wouldn't!!). Many are auto's too in the UK and the Ford AOD is rather naff.




You probably won't see one in budget, but a Mustang Cobra is a higher performance variant. More power and often better suspension and some other changes.


Sticking with the Ford theme. They did offer some other V8 coupes. The Thunderbird. This was labelled by Ford as a personal luxury vehicle rather than pony car.

In the mid'ish 1980's they used the same 5.0 V8 and the same Fox body platform as the Mustang (although slightly longer).

They looked like this:


Most are auto though (although you could swap in a manual). A nice alternative to a Stang.

At this point in time the top performance model was actually a 2.3 TURBO called a Turbo Coupe. Very rare in the UK, although there was a nice red one on ebay 2 weeks back for £600.

You could either tune the 2.3 or swap in a V8 if you wanted.


PM me if you want the details of the ebay one as I believe it didn't sell.

Again though, these T-Birds are quite rare in the UK.

Moving on a few years to around 1989 the Thunderbird was totally redesigned with a new MN12 platform. This is a very advanced platform and massively over engineered with IRS and IFS and very good structural rigidity. It's a tad heavier, although no more so than today's big coupes.

I quite like the look of them:


They are also fairly easy to find in the UK.

The 5.0 V8 was available with 200hp and the 4.6 from 94 onwards. Sadly all V8's are auto's, but again you could retro fit a manual if you wanted.

The top line model was called a Supercoupe and used a 3.8 litre V6 with a SUPERCHARGER. These tend to sell for around £3-4k, rarish, but they are out there. And available with a 5 speed manual.


In the GM camp you have the Firebird and Camaro. Essentially the same car with just different styling tweaks. These are certainly more of a looker than a Foxbody Mustang, but a little heavier. Arguably the 5.0 V8 isn't as easily tunable and doesn't offer as good out of the box performance either. But they are more common and easier to buy in the UK and from as little as £2k with choice.

1993 saw the 4th Gen Fbody which really changed the stakes on the GM vs Ford battle. The new LT1 easily out gunned the Mustang and the new Fbody was a much more stout platform and better handler. I reckon with a £5k budget you should be able to get one of these. 6 speed manuals are great, sadly us Brits are numptys though and nearly all in the UK are auto's.

98 saw the Ls1 introduction. But I think this is really at the far edge of your budget.

There are other Yank possibilities, but I suspect it'll be by chance of finding one, rather than wanting one and being able to locate one already in the UK.

[300bhp/ton]

LuS1fer said:

Seriously....let's have the link then.

www.ls1tech.com

For an LS1:

-lid
-catback
-Lt's
-LS6 intake (or a FAST 90 if you want to spend more)
-Ported TB (or 90mm if FAST intake
-Pulleys

That should get you pretty near 400hp. If it's an auto a bigger stall will change how it drives, if a manual swap in some 4.10:1 gears, in either case it'll be hugely faster than it was.

Dyno's claims are 340-360rwhp with this kind of setup, so using the good old 15% loss flawed guesstimate. That makes ~400-434bhp

LT1 won't make as much HP I admit. But even stock heads and a cam change + the mods above will boost power to 400hp or there abouts. Remember a stock LT1 in a Vette made 300hp and a LT4 330hp. The Fbody lump is essentially the same motor.

Add some heads and a cam to the Ls1 plus those mods and 400-430rwhp (470-500hp fly) are not unheard of.


Example:


ARH 1 7/8th + PowerFlo + Lid + Auto - TQ Management (stock tune otherwise) = 360rwhp and 370rwtq.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-...





Loads of cam only (+ bolt ons) here: http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-...

Many 400+hp at the wheels and all well exceeding it at the flywheel.

SLP Lid, stock maf, ported TB, LS6, stock 28# injectors
FMS F13 230/232 .595/585 112 lsa, rollmaster timing chain, 8.5mm MSD plug wires, stock rockers w/ trunnion upgrade
PRC .660 lift springs, TSP hardened pushrods
FLP 1 3/4" LT's, x-pipe, true dual with dynomax bullets 3.5" magnaflow tips
Spec stage 3 w/ billet steel flywheel, stock gears, 18" corvette wheels

410 whp/ 400 wtq


417rwhp/390rwtq

2000 m6 SS
Speed Inc SI5 (231/237 .589/.595 112lsa)
Untouched FAST 92
NW 90
FAST 36# injectors
SLP udp
1-3/4" LTs w/ory and FM 3"-4" merge
Mufflex 4" cb w/Spintech muffler
Built T56
Mcleod RST twindisk
PST 3.5" ds
Moser 9" w/spool and 4:30s


Vengeance Racing VRX5 cam
FAST 102mm intake manifold
FAST 92mm TB
Hooker Longtubes
SLP Lid

M6, Moser 12 bolt with 4:10 gears

390rwhp/365 lbs. ft. torque

394 rwhp / 376 tq

2002 Z28
CAI, CNC ported TB, Kooks LTs, Kooks catted Y, Corsa Catback,
EPS 222/226 113, stock 241 heads.



ull exhaust + lid 351/361 on mustang dyno
Got my car tuned by slowhawk the other day. It made 351/361 on there mustang dyno. Its got slp lid, pacesetter 1 3/4 long tubes, ory, slp lm2 catback. I'm happy with the numbers. I've read mustang dynos read lower then dynojets and other dynos.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-...


Got a tune 351rwhp/363tq. full exhaust & lid.
‎I have a m6 02 camaro SS with Kooks 1 7/8 Long tubes. ORY. Lid. Baselined at 341/349.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-...