mintex 1144's to Greenstuff

[dylan0451]

i've just fitted some part worn greenstuff pads that came with my car after the mintex pads wore out.

unless there's something wrong with them, i had no idea how awful greenstuff organic pads were compared to metallic types - sudden long pedal travel and sponginess, and the pads don't seem to be that concerned about stopping me either!

i think they'll be in the bin as soon as i can afford 1144's all round

are the axxis pads even better?

anyone tried mintex race compounds - 1177 etc.

[inman999]

I've used greenstuff pads before without any problems. I used to find they required a few prods of the pedal to get a bit of heat into them but then they were fine.

Is there any chance that air got into the system, if so that would explain the sponginess.

[MX-5 Lazza]

Nah. Greenstuff are dire - ditch them. I use Axxis Ultimates and Mazda pads (I only put the Axxis pads in for track use - just because they squeak in my car, not normally a problem for most people). If it's road only use then I'd stick with Mazda pads but if you take it on the track then Axxis Ultimates are hard to beat (Mintex 1144 are a bit better but a lot more expensive).

[bluetone]

inman999 said:

I've used greenstuff pads before without any problems.

inman999 said:

I used to find they required a few prods of the pedal to get a bit of heat into them

Surely somewhat of a contradiction?

[dylan0451]

that's reassuring then, i thought i'd somehow managed to bugger up a pretty simple job, that or the pads had previously been destroyed on track

i've put greenstuff on a couple of previous cars, along with brand new discs, braided lines, dot 5.1 and just assumed the lack of urgency in the brakes was either down to 80's/90's servo technology or just the general design

i had no idea how soft organic pad material could feel compared with metallic, after seeing what happens to the turbogroove discs on track, i'm rapidly going off EBC on the whole!

[TwistingMyMelon]

"part worn greenstuff pads"

[DanGT]

Its not a good idear to swop pads in that way it will take some time to bed in. EBC pads work well on some cars my mini was ok but my brothers MX5 not so good.

[MX-5 Lazza]

I had EBC Turbogroove discs on my old Mk1. I really hated them. They were noisy and I could feel them through the pedal and they didn't seem to add anything to braking performance. On my current car I use cheap MX5 Parts discs and have no problem at all even with repeated braking from high speeds on track.

[paul99]

I tried M1177's, they were excellent pads but very noisy for a road car and need a fair bit of heat to start working properly.

As above, Axiss Ultimates and M1144's are both very good but can be troublesome to get hold of. For that reason im giving EBC Yellowstuff a go this time will see how they compare.

[dylan0451]

TwistingMyMelon said:

"part worn greenstuff pads"

yup, about 3/4 material left - i appreciate i'll have to bed them in a bit but i can't see them becoming stiffer

re. the turbogroove discs:

Gareth Cole said:

Mine looked like Andy's to begin with, then it got worse (at which point I should have changed them but you know how it is) and in the end it looked like this .....



Note how the disc surface wears unevenly around the dimples. Thats one of the reasons I don't like them.

Gareth

i remember the same issue getting hold of them when i owned a metro. i think the product range naming has changed now hence difficulties looking for numbers

when i first got the car with 1144's on i thought the pads had gone as there was quite a metal on metal sound. the hugely reassuring braking performance suggested otherwise however!

i have a brand new front set of 1144's just waiting to find rears...

Edited by dylan0451 on Monday 1st March 13:16

[J-Tuner]

I got greenstuff all round and in this application i would say they are perfectly fine. I track my mx5 and not once have i had any fade. If anything i would say any spongyness would be removed with some braided brake hoses all round.

I've used Red stuff and the EBC discs on my old 200SX and they were dire - Discs warped at teh slightest hint of hard use. I skimmed them once and they went again right away. The basic brembo discs and ferodo ds5200's i put on after were miles better.

Thats just my experience on them - and so far i would say they (Green stuff pads) are suitable for any application other than hardcore track use. Stay away from the discs.

Edited by J-Tuner on Monday 1st March 16:01

[MX-5 Lazza]

Greenstuff are just too inconsistent. I've had sets that were world-beaters but I've had others that crumbled during normal road use and another set that were so hard they ate my discs while only showing the mildest of wear on the pads.
I won't touch them again.

[pbirkett]

I've got green stuff on mine. Absolutely dire when cold. Not so bad once warmed up, but I don't think I'd get any more.

[mikey P 500]

I have green stuff pads on mine. They seem ok under normal road and light track use at least comparable with stock pads. Did you clean the discs thoroughly with brake cleaner between changing pads, as when swapping between different compounds I understand this is particularly important for good performance.

[cyberface]

I think Greenduff are just useless on light cars. The same argument rages in the Lotus community - anyone using Greenstuff finds that their braking is dire. I had the EBC greens on my girlfriend's mk1 Eunos when I bought it, and they were ste.

However that isn't an indictment of all EBC products by any means. The Red ceramic pads I used on my supercharged 993 were great and didn't fade even at a Brands GP trackday in midsummer. The Yellow pads I ran on my last Exige were sharp and whilst needed getting heat into them (they're more than 'fast road' pads really) they were awesome once up to temperature.

The Green pad isn't a performance pad IMO, I don't think EBC market it as such and if you're hooning about and leaning on your brakes then you'd be better off with Red or Yellow pads and appropriate ducting to get cooling air to the brakes. There was so much slagging off of Greenstuff pads on the Lotus forums that the boss of EBC UK actually pitched in to say that the Green pad is simply NOT recommended for performance use, and that all the bad press was unwarranted, and he sent out free sets of the 'recommended' EBC pad for the Elise (the Yellow, as it happens) to the haters... who rapidly changed their mind about 'all EBC products'.

Yeah, the Green are crap. But I found the Red to be a great compromise, very low dust (the ceramic ones) and strong performance in a heavier car than the MX-5, so should perform well in the MX-5.

But if you're paying for Reds, then Mintex 1144 are in your range and they are a well proven fast road pad. They produce *huge* amounts of brake dust though, and it'll eat your wheels unless you wash the stuff off regularly. Personally though, brakes are one area of the car that I *won't* economise on financially... that and tyres.

[dylan0451]

cyberface said:

I think Greenduff are just useless on light cars. The same argument rages in the Lotus community - anyone using Greenstuff finds that their braking is dire. I had the EBC greens on my girlfriend's mk1 Eunos when I bought it, and they were ste.

However that isn't an indictment of all EBC products by any means. The Red ceramic pads I used on my supercharged 993 were great and didn't fade even at a Brands GP trackday in midsummer. The Yellow pads I ran on my last Exige were sharp and whilst needed getting heat into them (they're more than 'fast road' pads really) they were awesome once up to temperature.

The Green pad isn't a performance pad IMO, I don't think EBC market it as such and if you're hooning about and leaning on your brakes then you'd be better off with Red or Yellow pads and appropriate ducting to get cooling air to the brakes. There was so much slagging off of Greenstuff pads on the Lotus forums that the boss of EBC UK actually pitched in to say that the Green pad is simply NOT recommended for performance use, and that all the bad press was unwarranted, and he sent out free sets of the 'recommended' EBC pad for the Elise (the Yellow, as it happens) to the haters... who rapidly changed their mind about 'all EBC products'.

Yeah, the Green are crap. But I found the Red to be a great compromise, very low dust (the ceramic ones) and strong performance in a heavier car than the MX-5, so should perform well in the MX-5.

But if you're paying for Reds, then Mintex 1144 are in your range and they are a well proven fast road pad. They produce *huge* amounts of brake dust though, and it'll eat your wheels unless you wash the stuff off regularly. Personally though, brakes are one area of the car that I *won't* economise on financially... that and tyres.

but this is the thing though, i'm sure the reason i first bought them a few years back was despite the cool colour coded marketing, they were marketed as a performance pad, granted a super low dust one but there were friction coefficient graphs, temp graphs showing how good they were for fast road to (small amounts of) track with minimal competitors that could offer a good bite and high temp range. i've just gone on the site and i must say there's been a redesign, and you're right, there's less focus on them being sold as an outright performance pad.

i note you say that a lot of lotus owners inc. yourself deem the greenstuff to be crap for lightweight cars, yet the redstuff are good for heavier cars so should work well on light ones. oddly, i've known people that track metros ~850kg (as amusing a concept as that may be even with 160hp ) that thought the greenstuff pads were fairly good, yet when they upgraded to redstuff in the hope of even better braking, were disappointed to find that they wore out faster and didn't stop the car better at all. upon inspection ebc deemed that the pads had not been used at a high enough temperature - mainly reasoning that the car running them wasn't heavy enough

the impression i've been led to by users and ebc is that the greenstuff is the pad to use for lightweight, kit cars, hot hatches etc. running less than 200hp. over that power output, with more track focus on 'muscle cars' (i read saloons in general and going past the 1200kg ish mark and past 200hp) the redstuff is the pad of choice, though it suggests that the pad isn't quite up to the greens in terms of friction coefficient. so by that reasoning, for lighter cars i've often considered greenstuff to be the best option, especially since hearing about problems with reds

i'd still be blissfully unaware there were better materials for day to day driving out there if it hadn't have been for the fact i was running mintex 1144's to start with, sure they do produce tons of dust but i'm a little apprehensive to spend £100 on red or yellow pads if my problem mazda doesn't like them

now, if only mintex could make low dust pads

[dylan0451]

mikey P 500 said:

Did you clean the discs thoroughly with brake cleaner between changing pads, as when swapping between different compounds I understand this is particularly important for good performance.

errrr, i think i'm using the pads for that now...

'brake cleaner' the clue's in the name i guess

[MX-5 Lazza]

You don't need to clean the brakes when swapping pads. What you should do if you fit part-worn pads is just to rub the pads flat with glass-paper but even that isn't that important if they aren't heavily scored and they will wear in very quickly.

The boss of EBC talked to me too after I'd slated EBC products on PH before. He defended his products as you'd expect him to. I defended my stance as I said I was just quoting my own experiences. He said he'd send me some YellowStuff to test for free. I never received anything. I tried mailing him back a few times but got no reply. So nothing has happened to change my mind. I still think GreenStuff are rubbish - not as good as stock Mazda pads and YellowStuff aren't as good as Axxis Ultimates which don't need any heat in them to give a really good brake feel & powerful bite.

[redgriff500]

Are you sure you adjusted the rears correctly ?

[dylan0451]

i will admit now, after giving them a bit of a kicking they are a little better, i assume they've bedded in to a degree. braking still feels spongy and without any real 'bite' though

i may inspect the rears and adjust (with the rear bolt i presume) if required, but they were ok before.

who is this boss Lazza? maybe we can whip up some stink and get free yellowstuff to try