Buying & Running an MX5 with Forced Induction?
Discussion
Hi All,
I run a 1990 MK1 1.6 at the moment which seems to be bomb proof (Has to be-the misses uses it!)
I was thinking of upgrading the chassis on my current car when noticed a few turbo/SC MX5's come up for sale from 3.5-5K.
Seems like a no-brainer but I'm a bit worried about the reliability of after market kits. Part of the appeal of the 5 for me is it's simplicity and cheapness, you don't have to worry about it bankrupting you.
I'd be interested to hear from people's experiences running forced induction 5's.
Cheers,
Rick.
I run a 1990 MK1 1.6 at the moment which seems to be bomb proof (Has to be-the misses uses it!)
I was thinking of upgrading the chassis on my current car when noticed a few turbo/SC MX5's come up for sale from 3.5-5K.
Seems like a no-brainer but I'm a bit worried about the reliability of after market kits. Part of the appeal of the 5 for me is it's simplicity and cheapness, you don't have to worry about it bankrupting you.
I'd be interested to hear from people's experiences running forced induction 5's.
Cheers,
Rick.
pbirkett will pipe up soon.
Generally I think the advice is thus...
We all know that stock engines are pretty much fool proof.
Also - a properly done FI car can be similarly fool proof.
BUT - many are not, have been done on the cheap, are not tuned properly, parts are not properly chosen and matched.
Basically you need to be really really thorough when checking one over and you need to know its history and to know that its been built by someone who knows what they are doing.
Generally I think the advice is thus...
We all know that stock engines are pretty much fool proof.
Also - a properly done FI car can be similarly fool proof.
BUT - many are not, have been done on the cheap, are not tuned properly, parts are not properly chosen and matched.
Basically you need to be really really thorough when checking one over and you need to know its history and to know that its been built by someone who knows what they are doing.
if i were buying an FI'd car, with my limited knowledge, i'd look for things like upgraded pressure regs, fuel pump, standalone management? ask if it's been tuned on rolling road, does it use oil? make good consistant cylinder pressure across cylinders etc. when the oil is changed, what state it's in now - no smokey issues. see if it pulls well, ask what economy is like to try and get an idea of how well it's been mapped, if it has
then if you're happy and buy, take it to somewhere like P5 for a good once over, rather than just driving it till it goes pop then being disheartened with FI in general assuming its an unrealiable route to go down?
then if you're happy and buy, take it to somewhere like P5 for a good once over, rather than just driving it till it goes pop then being disheartened with FI in general assuming its an unrealiable route to go down?
snotrag said:
pbirkett will pipe up soon.
Generally I think the advice is thus...
We all know that stock engines are pretty much fool proof.
Also - a properly done FI car can be similarly fool proof.
BUT - many are not, have been done on the cheap, are not tuned properly, parts are not properly chosen and matched.
Basically you need to be really really thorough when checking one over and you need to know its history and to know that its been built by someone who knows what they are doing.
Can't really add much to what he says really, but I will add my own experience.Generally I think the advice is thus...
We all know that stock engines are pretty much fool proof.
Also - a properly done FI car can be similarly fool proof.
BUT - many are not, have been done on the cheap, are not tuned properly, parts are not properly chosen and matched.
Basically you need to be really really thorough when checking one over and you need to know its history and to know that its been built by someone who knows what they are doing.
Back in June last year I bought an RS limited for £3900 which was supercharged. I'll admit that I did not go into it with my eyes open, and it cost me.
The supercharger turned out not to be installed properly, the guy had snapped a bolt off in the back (I didn't find this out until later) and so he left it in there, not properly mounted. It snapped the mounting bracket and tensioner over time, and both cost me hundreds to put right after a bodged repair and being sent a tensioner which didn't fit. It would have cost me a lot more but for some friendly mechanics.
The guy also boasted that it was running an estimated 190 bhp. It clearly didn't get close according to my butt dyno. More like 150 - 160. It was just the basic kit with no timing solution, you really need some decent timing solution. With it's retarded timing, it had an incredile thirst for super unleaded and drove like a dog at low revs. Plus, at the back of my mind, I always feared I was just one hot day or one poor batch of fuel away from detting the engine to death when thrashing it.
Not only that but as mine was an RS one may argue I paid RS tax for what was essentially a pretty tired car.
I ended up removing and selling the charger and have spent over a grand putting the car back to standard / good health. It was really the last thing I needed when already heavily in debt - actually part of the reason I swapped cars in the first place was to avoid big bills, only to be landed with them anyway.
I actually enjoy the car more now. It drives better overall, I can thrash it with abandon without worrying and it costs about 30% less to put fuel in = can drive it more. Really I am rarely ever slower on the road than I was just have to work a bit harder! I'll make further savings come insurance renewal time too.
If you really want to go for it then do, but sometimes it's the better the devil you know, and if you were he'll bent on it, then take yours to someone like mark (onlymx5ives) who'll supply and fit one for 1500 quid. I wouldn't trust anyones DIY efforts again - I'd only buy one where it was very obvious the car was an excellent, professionally installed example with proof.
Even then, once it's done you'll have a none standard car which may be reliable or may not, and will cost more to run. And if you ain't handy with a spanner, or have a very friendly mechanic who can deal with modified cars, then if thongs go wrong, costs could and do mount up alarmingly.
In the first 6 months of ownership my mx5 cost me more than my old ITR in 30 months to run. Just shows how even one of the cheapest to run sports cars can be very expensive if you have some bad luck.
To be fair mine seems bullet proof now and has had much prevantative maintenance done now so hopefully it'll only cost me petrol, servicing, insurance and mot, I really can't afford for it to cost me anymore.
Caveat emptor!
Just to echo the above, if it's been installed and set up properly, it should be fine. I'd be VERY wary of buying an already heavily modified car form some random person, you haven't a clue how it's been set up or treated. I had mine installed by Mark (OnlyMX5ives) just before Christmas and it's been fine. The economy is reduced by not by a huge amount - I average 26-27 as opposed to 30 and considering it's a second car and I do very few miles per annum, it isn't an issue. The additional power and supercharger noise is addictive 
Edited by Howard- on Tuesday 9th February 13:40
I have 2 SC'd cars I'll be selling as soon as I get around to uploading the ads on here.
At new prices - the cars are for sale at less than the cost of the modifications alone.
But as a balance I have bought many FI'd cars that were a total disaster - questioning the seller quickly reveals the extent of their knowledge IME.
At new prices - the cars are for sale at less than the cost of the modifications alone.
But as a balance I have bought many FI'd cars that were a total disaster - questioning the seller quickly reveals the extent of their knowledge IME.
It is cheaper to buy an FI'd care rather than forking out £££'s to do it yourself, but unless you have a clue about these cars or a friendly and knowledgeable mechanic nearby I personally wouldn't buy an FI'd MX5 - they're just too complicated and temperamental.
The fun is in the modding not the finished article.
The fun is in the modding not the finished article.
OnlyMX5ives said:
maz8062 said:
The fun is in the modding not the finished article.
That is completely opposite to my view.I enjoy making 5's go faster but given the choice between holding a spanner or a steering wheel, there is no comparison.
If only I could find someone to pay me to drive them.
Forced induction 5's are the way forward 
One thing that doesn't often get mentioned is how it transforms the way they drive, the extra torque pulls the car into the road you feel it working the chassis and gripping more, when mine was n/a I always felt it was a bit floaty, you'd be at 6000rpm all the time and I didn't think it felt quite right, bolt on a turbo or supercharger on and it looses the floaty feel, you feel it bite into the road. It made me have more confidence in the car when pressing on, I guess he weight shift is greater when your accelerating that much harder so the rear get more grip. Maybe wrong about how it works but thats my experience.
One thing that doesn't often get mentioned is how it transforms the way they drive, the extra torque pulls the car into the road you feel it working the chassis and gripping more, when mine was n/a I always felt it was a bit floaty, you'd be at 6000rpm all the time and I didn't think it felt quite right, bolt on a turbo or supercharger on and it looses the floaty feel, you feel it bite into the road. It made me have more confidence in the car when pressing on, I guess he weight shift is greater when your accelerating that much harder so the rear get more grip. Maybe wrong about how it works but thats my experience. Edited by Herman Toothrot on Tuesday 9th February 19:59
Dont get me wrong, I still think they can be great, as long as done properly!
I would be well tempted to go for one of Marks £1500 low boost conversions, as it could be the thing that persuaded me to hang on to the car rather than trading "up" to a TVR S, S2000, Z3 etc.
BUT - I will only do it after I've got a completely clean, solid Chassis, fullly refreshed suspension with new dampers and bushes all round, a full brake overhaul and got the bodywork niggles sorted.
I would be well tempted to go for one of Marks £1500 low boost conversions, as it could be the thing that persuaded me to hang on to the car rather than trading "up" to a TVR S, S2000, Z3 etc.
BUT - I will only do it after I've got a completely clean, solid Chassis, fullly refreshed suspension with new dampers and bushes all round, a full brake overhaul and got the bodywork niggles sorted.
snotrag said:
Dont get me wrong, I still think they can be great, as long as done properly!
I would be well tempted to go for one of Marks £1500 low boost conversions, as it could be the thing that persuaded me to hang on to the car rather than trading "up" to a TVR S, S2000, Z3 etc.
BUT - I will only do it after I've got a completely clean, solid Chassis, fullly refreshed suspension with new dampers and bushes all round, a full brake overhaul and got the bodywork niggles sorted.
TBH, although since I took my charger off the car is slower than it was, believe it or not I think its more fun now.I would be well tempted to go for one of Marks £1500 low boost conversions, as it could be the thing that persuaded me to hang on to the car rather than trading "up" to a TVR S, S2000, Z3 etc.
BUT - I will only do it after I've got a completely clean, solid Chassis, fullly refreshed suspension with new dampers and bushes all round, a full brake overhaul and got the bodywork niggles sorted.
Depends whether you get your kicks from speed, or the overall balance of the car. As it is, the car is very balanced in terms of its handling to its speed etc.
Might be different if it was for the track though, but for the road, I think the balance is spot on. This is coming from someone who was very worried about going off the car when "downgrading".
End of the day, how much speed do you need on the road. The only time I miss the pace of say, my old DC2 is on the straights, and even then, in isolation its fine, its just when the guy in the Type-R goes past, but from the drivers seat, there doesn't seem to be a lot of difference!
Perhaps a properly good FI setup would change my mind, mine was crap.
An interesting cut and paste from nutz as you did have a Type R
paulm said:
Not sure if this is the right place for this post, but thought some of you guys might be interested in this comparison...
I took both my cars out to bedford at the weekend, first time with the MX5 on the track other than drifting... Was interested to see the difference between the cars on track as both are known as 'drivers' cars and an internet reputation as being faster than a GT3, GTR, F430 or Veyron in the right hands ;-) ... Should be noted I put the data logger in the cars, left it on 'auto' and didn't look at the data till after I'd left the circuit - so I wasn't 'going for a laptime' more recording the performance of the day...
No video from the Integra as we where late arriving and didn't get time to setup the cam in the car, but here is a video from the MX5:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_tIplIaGmY
Plenty of excuses for the spin (silly huge gloves, biteing semi-slicks), but in all honesty I applied a bit too much oppo' and too much throttle - was probably a bit tired as I'd been out for 45mins at that point, and it was towards the end of the day... (how is that for a 'driver excuse'? pretty good I thought... anyway...
Day was foggy and a little damp, but it was still a fairly grippy track. The layout was the GT circuit which is a very long lap (3min +)
My integra has a stock engine and suspension with upgraded ARBs, and upgraded brake pads/discs. I was using H2 compound Dunlop 195/50/15s semi-slicks which appear to last forever! but about 10s a lap slower than Med AO48s I've used at bedford before - economy over speed on this day!
The MX5 has a standard 115bhp 1.6 motor, some upgraded brake pads, AGX dampers, but otherwise is pretty much mechanically 'stock'. it's an eunos, so has a viscous LSD which in my cars case still works, although I think it was over heating... Running soft compound 185/55/14 AO32Rs - hitting almost 100mph on the backstraight and carrying about 65mph through the fast chicane
Initally, I though the MX5 might actually be faster than the DC2 - it felt quick and I was harrasing caterhams around the medium and slow corners (getting cained on the straights however!), I think being so low and in an open car gives you more of sensation of speed as it turned out the DC2 was about 10s a lap faster. high-speed corners (75mph+) are still a bit of a problem in the MX5 as it doesn't have enough power to balance on the throttle and tends towards roll-oversteer beyond the apex. could do a with a close-ratio gearbox as the gap from 2nd-3rd is enormous compared to the 'teg, hit the limiter a few times on down-shifts into corners. Also found the gearshift not as sweet as the integra when the gearbox gets hot - partiularly into 2nd gear (may need new gearbox oil). Brakes where great - using stock 1.6 size rotor/calipers and yellowstuff pads. I think I might have too much caster on the car as the steering was getting very heavy while traveling sideways.
The datalogger showed I could brake harder and generate more cornering G in the integra on the high speed corners, even on the hard tyres. The integra was hitting 110mph on the straight and carrying 75mph through the fast chicane. The MX5 was quicker out of the hairpins, again, the soft compound tyres helping a lot. Was mildly suprised the MX5 could acheive power-oversteer in 2nd with semi-slicks...
Both cars are aligned using the Whiteline 'race' settings, so similar in charater.
In the end, I'd say the 'gap' between the cars if they where on the same rubber would be about what you'd expect considering the difference in bhp/ton. The MX5 is a sweet handling car for sure, although IMHO the flexy chassis would struggle to cope with much over 175bhp without some serious chassis reinforcing or a full cage. The Integra reminded me just how good it's chassis is, although a lot of that can be attributed to the LSD which is very effective with firm ARBs and semislicks.
To be completly honest, on the day, I probably had more fun in the MX5, but some of that was due to the extremely sticky tyres. The integra feels amazing cutting through the high speed chicane at 80+ on a softer tyre and the engine is just epic compared to the slightly reluctant mazda - always pushed to the limiter in the integra as it just sounds better and better as the revs climb and the exhaust note sounds mean when your on the 2nd cam, the mazda starts to sound strained at the limiter and ready for another gear early on.
Interestingly, The mazda used a tank of fuel in 45mins, which means it was getting similar or worse MPG to the integra!
For the money, both are cracking cars, although the MX5 probably wins in the smiles per £ because they are so cheap! I love them both for different reasons, and I feel very fortunate to have them both to choose from... It's fair to say both deserve their reputation as 'drivers cars' on the circuit.
I have AO48's in 195 and 205 - might have to try the two cars back-to-back on the same type of rubber next time!
I took both my cars out to bedford at the weekend, first time with the MX5 on the track other than drifting... Was interested to see the difference between the cars on track as both are known as 'drivers' cars and an internet reputation as being faster than a GT3, GTR, F430 or Veyron in the right hands ;-) ... Should be noted I put the data logger in the cars, left it on 'auto' and didn't look at the data till after I'd left the circuit - so I wasn't 'going for a laptime' more recording the performance of the day...
No video from the Integra as we where late arriving and didn't get time to setup the cam in the car, but here is a video from the MX5:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_tIplIaGmY
Plenty of excuses for the spin (silly huge gloves, biteing semi-slicks), but in all honesty I applied a bit too much oppo' and too much throttle - was probably a bit tired as I'd been out for 45mins at that point, and it was towards the end of the day... (how is that for a 'driver excuse'? pretty good I thought... anyway...
Day was foggy and a little damp, but it was still a fairly grippy track. The layout was the GT circuit which is a very long lap (3min +)
My integra has a stock engine and suspension with upgraded ARBs, and upgraded brake pads/discs. I was using H2 compound Dunlop 195/50/15s semi-slicks which appear to last forever! but about 10s a lap slower than Med AO48s I've used at bedford before - economy over speed on this day!
The MX5 has a standard 115bhp 1.6 motor, some upgraded brake pads, AGX dampers, but otherwise is pretty much mechanically 'stock'. it's an eunos, so has a viscous LSD which in my cars case still works, although I think it was over heating... Running soft compound 185/55/14 AO32Rs - hitting almost 100mph on the backstraight and carrying about 65mph through the fast chicane
Initally, I though the MX5 might actually be faster than the DC2 - it felt quick and I was harrasing caterhams around the medium and slow corners (getting cained on the straights however!), I think being so low and in an open car gives you more of sensation of speed as it turned out the DC2 was about 10s a lap faster. high-speed corners (75mph+) are still a bit of a problem in the MX5 as it doesn't have enough power to balance on the throttle and tends towards roll-oversteer beyond the apex. could do a with a close-ratio gearbox as the gap from 2nd-3rd is enormous compared to the 'teg, hit the limiter a few times on down-shifts into corners. Also found the gearshift not as sweet as the integra when the gearbox gets hot - partiularly into 2nd gear (may need new gearbox oil). Brakes where great - using stock 1.6 size rotor/calipers and yellowstuff pads. I think I might have too much caster on the car as the steering was getting very heavy while traveling sideways.
The datalogger showed I could brake harder and generate more cornering G in the integra on the high speed corners, even on the hard tyres. The integra was hitting 110mph on the straight and carrying 75mph through the fast chicane. The MX5 was quicker out of the hairpins, again, the soft compound tyres helping a lot. Was mildly suprised the MX5 could acheive power-oversteer in 2nd with semi-slicks...
Both cars are aligned using the Whiteline 'race' settings, so similar in charater.
In the end, I'd say the 'gap' between the cars if they where on the same rubber would be about what you'd expect considering the difference in bhp/ton. The MX5 is a sweet handling car for sure, although IMHO the flexy chassis would struggle to cope with much over 175bhp without some serious chassis reinforcing or a full cage. The Integra reminded me just how good it's chassis is, although a lot of that can be attributed to the LSD which is very effective with firm ARBs and semislicks.
To be completly honest, on the day, I probably had more fun in the MX5, but some of that was due to the extremely sticky tyres. The integra feels amazing cutting through the high speed chicane at 80+ on a softer tyre and the engine is just epic compared to the slightly reluctant mazda - always pushed to the limiter in the integra as it just sounds better and better as the revs climb and the exhaust note sounds mean when your on the 2nd cam, the mazda starts to sound strained at the limiter and ready for another gear early on.
Interestingly, The mazda used a tank of fuel in 45mins, which means it was getting similar or worse MPG to the integra!
For the money, both are cracking cars, although the MX5 probably wins in the smiles per £ because they are so cheap! I love them both for different reasons, and I feel very fortunate to have them both to choose from... It's fair to say both deserve their reputation as 'drivers cars' on the circuit.
I have AO48's in 195 and 205 - might have to try the two cars back-to-back on the same type of rubber next time!
maz8062 said:
The fun is in the modding not the finished article.
It's completely opposite to my view too.The fun for me was letting someone else do,(and more importantly) pay for the modding....then me buying the finished product.
Mine has roughly double the standard power, has been just as reliable, and probably does more miles to the gallon.
Interesting post there about the ITR versus the mx5, have to say I don't get the big gap on upchanges in my 5 but the RS is supposed to have closer ratios than standard.
Mind you the ITR was a weapon I'll say that, quite miss it, and yes the engine was amazing on cam. Sometimes wonder if I did the right thing swapping, but the eunos is definitely more fun more of the time for me, and to be fair, doesn't feel like a downgrade even if it is in speed terms.
Also I'd possibly stick my neck out and say I wouldn't want mord than 200 bhp in an mx5 for road use too, fine for track but I can imagine it being overwhelming on the road. Drivable sure but you'd never get close to it's potential I'm guessing?
Mind you the ITR was a weapon I'll say that, quite miss it, and yes the engine was amazing on cam. Sometimes wonder if I did the right thing swapping, but the eunos is definitely more fun more of the time for me, and to be fair, doesn't feel like a downgrade even if it is in speed terms.
Also I'd possibly stick my neck out and say I wouldn't want mord than 200 bhp in an mx5 for road use too, fine for track but I can imagine it being overwhelming on the road. Drivable sure but you'd never get close to it's potential I'm guessing?
pbirkett said:
Also I'd possibly stick my neck out and say I wouldn't want mord than 200 bhp in an mx5 for road use too, fine for track but I can imagine it being overwhelming on the road. Drivable sure but you'd never get close to it's potential I'm guessing?
I've always said I'd go cold side supercharged circa 190bhp for the road, track on semi slicks is a different matter though.pbirkett said:
I wouldn't want mord than 200 bhp in an mx5 for road use too, but I can imagine it being overwhelming on the road. Drivable sure but you'd never get close to it's potential I'm guessing?
Agreed I've always said 200bhp is ideal.I have a smidge more at around 210 but don't want any more as it wants to sit at 100 as it is.
More power means you need so much restraint to avoid a ban.
(Lack of restraint is why I don't ride a motor bike on the road)
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