1990 mx5 sump removal
Discussion
Hi there,
i've got a 1990 1600 manual, and my sump gasket is leaking!
only about 1/4 from max on the dipstick per week but enough to want to do something about
i'm under the impression there is no gasket available - you have to use hylomar etc. ?!
basically, will it be easy enough to loosen/take off the engine mounts and just jack everything up a smidge to get access? i.e. without dropping PPF/splitting engine + box etc. ?
i could see if tightening the bolts slightly fixes it but i'd rather sort it properly
i've got a 1990 1600 manual, and my sump gasket is leaking!
only about 1/4 from max on the dipstick per week but enough to want to do something about
i'm under the impression there is no gasket available - you have to use hylomar etc. ?!
basically, will it be easy enough to loosen/take off the engine mounts and just jack everything up a smidge to get access? i.e. without dropping PPF/splitting engine + box etc. ?
i could see if tightening the bolts slightly fixes it but i'd rather sort it properly
Hi Dylan,
I've just done an engine change, so I've become very aquainted with that area of the car.
The problem with the sump is that it sits directly above a crossmember on the front subframe, hence why a sump change is an engine out job.
If you're going to have a go at just putting some hymlar in to stop the leak (which is quite a large one by the sounds of it), I personally, would do the following.
Drain oil.
Clean the bottom of the engine as best as you can.
Undo engine mounts
Undo the bracket that holds your exhaust to the bell housing (This will allow your exhaust to move upwards with the engine).
Make sure you have enough slack in the wiring to the starter motor and altenator (both under the intake manifold) to allow enough movement.
You'll then have to lift the engine with a hoist, because the jack (and bits of wood) under the sump would only stop you from getting the sump off
and jacking it from the gearbox would put strain on your bell housing bolts and first motion shaft as the block is a heavy old lump.
Then you're going to have to fiddle with the bolts in the sump - which will mean you working in and around the sub-frame.
Clean both surfaces (block and sump) to a spotless finish to allow the hymolar to grip it.
Jiggle the sump back on in the right place and get the bolts up to the right torque.
Either that or bodge with a some silicon and a squeeze gun.
Or live with it.
Where are you based? If it's not too far I'll be willing to come and help with what ever choice you make. Apart from maybe the live with it option, as I imagine you wouldn't need too much help with that.
I've just done an engine change, so I've become very aquainted with that area of the car.
The problem with the sump is that it sits directly above a crossmember on the front subframe, hence why a sump change is an engine out job.
If you're going to have a go at just putting some hymlar in to stop the leak (which is quite a large one by the sounds of it), I personally, would do the following.
Drain oil.
Clean the bottom of the engine as best as you can.
Undo engine mounts
Undo the bracket that holds your exhaust to the bell housing (This will allow your exhaust to move upwards with the engine).
Make sure you have enough slack in the wiring to the starter motor and altenator (both under the intake manifold) to allow enough movement.
You'll then have to lift the engine with a hoist, because the jack (and bits of wood) under the sump would only stop you from getting the sump off
and jacking it from the gearbox would put strain on your bell housing bolts and first motion shaft as the block is a heavy old lump.Then you're going to have to fiddle with the bolts in the sump - which will mean you working in and around the sub-frame.
Clean both surfaces (block and sump) to a spotless finish to allow the hymolar to grip it.
Jiggle the sump back on in the right place and get the bolts up to the right torque.
Either that or bodge with a some silicon and a squeeze gun.
Or live with it.
Where are you based? If it's not too far I'll be willing to come and help with what ever choice you make. Apart from maybe the live with it option, as I imagine you wouldn't need too much help with that.
I Am Milk said:
Hi Dylan,
I've just done an engine change, so I've become very aquainted with that area of the car.
The problem with the sump is that it sits directly above a crossmember on the front subframe, hence why a sump change is an engine out job.
If you're going to have a go at just putting some hymlar in to stop the leak (which is quite a large one by the sounds of it), I personally, would do the following.
Drain oil.
Clean the bottom of the engine as best as you can.
Undo engine mounts
Undo the bracket that holds your exhaust to the bell housing (This will allow your exhaust to move upwards with the engine).
Make sure you have enough slack in the wiring to the starter motor and altenator (both under the intake manifold) to allow enough movement.
You'll then have to lift the engine with a hoist, because the jack (and bits of wood) under the sump would only stop you from getting the sump off and jacking it from the gearbox would put strain on your bell housing bolts and first motion shaft as the block is a heavy old lump.
Then you're going to have to fiddle with the bolts in the sump - which will mean you working in and around the sub-frame.
Clean both surfaces (block and sump) to a spotless finish to allow the hymolar to grip it.
Jiggle the sump back on in the right place and get the bolts up to the right torque.
Either that or bodge with a some silicon and a squeeze gun.
Or live with it.
Where are you based? If it's not too far I'll be willing to come and help with what ever choice you make. Apart from maybe the live with it option, as I imagine you wouldn't need too much help with that.
arrI've just done an engine change, so I've become very aquainted with that area of the car.
The problem with the sump is that it sits directly above a crossmember on the front subframe, hence why a sump change is an engine out job.
If you're going to have a go at just putting some hymlar in to stop the leak (which is quite a large one by the sounds of it), I personally, would do the following.
Drain oil.
Clean the bottom of the engine as best as you can.
Undo engine mounts
Undo the bracket that holds your exhaust to the bell housing (This will allow your exhaust to move upwards with the engine).
Make sure you have enough slack in the wiring to the starter motor and altenator (both under the intake manifold) to allow enough movement.
You'll then have to lift the engine with a hoist, because the jack (and bits of wood) under the sump would only stop you from getting the sump off
and jacking it from the gearbox would put strain on your bell housing bolts and first motion shaft as the block is a heavy old lump.Then you're going to have to fiddle with the bolts in the sump - which will mean you working in and around the sub-frame.
Clean both surfaces (block and sump) to a spotless finish to allow the hymolar to grip it.
Jiggle the sump back on in the right place and get the bolts up to the right torque.
Either that or bodge with a some silicon and a squeeze gun.
Or live with it.
Where are you based? If it's not too far I'll be willing to come and help with what ever choice you make. Apart from maybe the live with it option, as I imagine you wouldn't need too much help with that.
great post there milk, that info what just what i was after...
so am i right in thinking there is no pre formed gasket - you must use an instant hylomar type sealant?
glad to hear i should be able to leave the front subframe alone, i don't fancy another 150 mile trip and &95 WIM alignment twice in as many months :-s
have you ever had the sump off? how much extra room might i need to get round the pickup?
cheers for the offer of help by the way
Dylan,
The only gaskets I could seem to find were the half moon ones, they go at the front and back of the sump (could well be your problem) - have some links.
front
back
Now I'm suprised there isn't a gasket for around the edges of the sump - I honestly thought there would be, I'd suggest you phone mx-5 parts, they are incredibly helpful and they'd be your best bet to double check, as I wouldn't fancy Hymolar as a complete replacement for a gasket, an additional amount of sealing yes, but not on it's own - but that is down to personal preferance.
I've never had a sump off, no, but then I've only owned my car for 2 months - I've just been unlucky enough to become incredibly aqquainted with the mechanics of the b
d thing.
I don't even know if it would be possible to get enough space to change the gaskets on the sump - but if I had to do it, what I posted up there ^^ is the way I would personally go forward.
I know you won't ever get enough space to get the sump off with out taking the engine out - but it might give you enough space to get the surfaces cleaned up, new half-moon gaskets in and some sealent, but who knows! That's the joys of home spannering!
The only gaskets I could seem to find were the half moon ones, they go at the front and back of the sump (could well be your problem) - have some links.
front
back
Now I'm suprised there isn't a gasket for around the edges of the sump - I honestly thought there would be, I'd suggest you phone mx-5 parts, they are incredibly helpful and they'd be your best bet to double check, as I wouldn't fancy Hymolar as a complete replacement for a gasket, an additional amount of sealing yes, but not on it's own - but that is down to personal preferance.
I've never had a sump off, no, but then I've only owned my car for 2 months - I've just been unlucky enough to become incredibly aqquainted with the mechanics of the b
d thing. I don't even know if it would be possible to get enough space to change the gaskets on the sump - but if I had to do it, what I posted up there ^^ is the way I would personally go forward.
I know you won't ever get enough space to get the sump off with out taking the engine out - but it might give you enough space to get the surfaces cleaned up, new half-moon gaskets in and some sealent, but who knows! That's the joys of home spannering!
well...
i ordered a gasket from the motorfactors and picked it up saturday. i was quite surprised to be presented with a single rubber gasket which had both the half moons and the straight sections within it
it had 'FORD' and 'B3' on the sticker hence i questioned the chap there, since the 1.6 is a B6 and 1.8 B8 etc. apparently ford owns mazda, and the guy checked through the book and it was right
with the engine mounts off and driveline lifted as far as it would go there was no way the sump was coming off, so i had to bite the bullet and drop the subframe, which was more of an ass than expected as had to drop the suspension, arb and seperate the steering column
after finally getting the sump off, cleaning the surfaces, getting the oil catch pan + pickup off and cleaning those it turned out...
mr. motorfactor fu@ked up once again. it was the wrong gasket, a bolt hole didn't line up and the half moon sections were too narrow
lets hope mx5parts have a swift next day delivery as i cuurrently have the body on blocks of wood, the driveline hanging from an engine hoist and the subframe supported by 3 bottle jacks
oh the joys of motoring
i ordered a gasket from the motorfactors and picked it up saturday. i was quite surprised to be presented with a single rubber gasket which had both the half moons and the straight sections within it
it had 'FORD' and 'B3' on the sticker hence i questioned the chap there, since the 1.6 is a B6 and 1.8 B8 etc. apparently ford owns mazda, and the guy checked through the book and it was right
with the engine mounts off and driveline lifted as far as it would go there was no way the sump was coming off, so i had to bite the bullet and drop the subframe, which was more of an ass than expected as had to drop the suspension, arb and seperate the steering column
after finally getting the sump off, cleaning the surfaces, getting the oil catch pan + pickup off and cleaning those it turned out...
mr. motorfactor fu@ked up once again. it was the wrong gasket, a bolt hole didn't line up and the half moon sections were too narrow
lets hope mx5parts have a swift next day delivery as i cuurrently have the body on blocks of wood, the driveline hanging from an engine hoist and the subframe supported by 3 bottle jacks
oh the joys of motoring
in closing, if your sump is leaking just a little bit then leave it alone! or get a garage to do it if you need a new crank/g box input seal doing
you have to glue the front + rear gaskets with hylomar to the block to hold them in place, then offer up the hylomar gasket'd sump and hold it while you get the bolts in. first attempt the sump slid sideways as you have to place it in through the back of the subframe so i had to clean it down, reposition the seals etc. then try again
bet you're glad i didn't take you up on the offer eh milk :-p
you have to glue the front + rear gaskets with hylomar to the block to hold them in place, then offer up the hylomar gasket'd sump and hold it while you get the bolts in. first attempt the sump slid sideways as you have to place it in through the back of the subframe so i had to clean it down, reposition the seals etc. then try again
bet you're glad i didn't take you up on the offer eh milk :-p
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