Forged Engine

[Herman Toothrot]

Has anyone else built or had built a forged engine for their MX5. Just wondering what people have had done?

[MX-5 Lazza]

Do you really need a forged engine? The stock engine is supposed to be good for about 250whp which is plenty enough for most people.
Even if your engine has a weakness somewhere and dies, you can replace it for a few hundred quid. A forged engine from FM costs upwards of $6k

[Herman Toothrot]

I'm getting one built (its at the builders) as I want to be able to turn up the boost so my turbos running in the middle of it efficiency map, at the minute I'm not even getting close I'm running about 260bhp/230lbs at present so at the torque limit of the stock engine. I've bought a spare engine and had that delivered to be built so its going to happen. Think it'll have carillo A beam rods, JE pistons, FM billet main caps, ARP main bolts, ARP head studs, billet oil pump gears. Still a lot to decide on and then what specs to go for, it'll be a long time before its all together as long as I have it done by next summer I'll be happy. Will be mapped upto about 330bhp\300lbs. The cars lke a missle already, but I think it can take more with sticky track rubber on track. If it was a road car i'd not go over 250bhp.

[MX-5 Lazza]

Good stuff! That's one car I'd like to see on track one day

oh, and post the same question on Nutz - there are a few with built engines over there

Edited by MX-5 Lazza on Tuesday 8th September 12:37

[Herman Toothrot]

MX-5 Lazza said:

Good stuff! That's one car I'd like to see on track one day

oh, and post the same question on Nutz - there are a few with built engines over there

Edited by MX-5 Lazza on Tuesday 8th September 12:37

I think they are mostly crate FM engines that came over in more favourable exchange rate times?

[snotrag]

that is going to be sthotfast (as seen on the back of an ultima once!). Keep us updated!

[maz8062]

Miataturbo.net and miata.net is your best to do the research. You'll also need to factor in;

- bigger injectors
- Diff
- Gearbox
- Clutch
- bigger IC/WI
- Brakes

When all is said and done the extra 40bhp will cost mucho £££. Given that your car is a track car it's probably worth it.

My recommendation would be to go the the tried and tested mx5 engine builders like P5 and Paul Sheard. FM is also tried and tested.

I'm sure it'll be fun and I look forward to the vids.

[Herman Toothrot]

maz8062 said:

Miataturbo.net and miata.net is your best to do the research. You'll also need to factor in;

- bigger injectors
- Diff
- Gearbox
- Clutch
- bigger IC/WI
- Brakes

When all is said and done the extra 40bhp will cost mucho £££. Given that your car is a track car it's probably worth it.

My recommendation would be to go the the tried and tested mx5 engine builders like P5 and Paul Sheard. FM is also tried and tested.

I'm sure it'll be fun and I look forward to the vids.

My cars already very sorted, only the longblock holding it back I have more than enough injector duty cycle headroom and AITs are really low I won't be going past the compressors efficiency range so it won't be heating up the charge too much. Phil at P5 doesn't build engines he subcontracts or brings in FM crate engines and fits them - big difference kit fitting and building engines from scratch. I have the person whos the most recommended in the Supra / Skyline world and builds all sorts of race engines for a living doing it, thats not in question.

Only question is what have other people done if they have built and spec'd it themselves or had someone do it for them? I'm talking about the engine internals, not bolt ons.

Not really up for following the forums suggestions blindly, if you hang around long enough you just see that the "thing" be it ECU, Pistons whatever that the most prolific posters (usually attached to a tuning company) uses is what gets pushed. I remember when I got my car every one said EMB or FM Link if you had the cash. Bit of research and got a 4 generation later Link ECU for half the FM price. Thesdays if I was looking for a diffent ECU I'd get a Solaris, I doubt theres ever been one on an MX5 before.

Edited by Herman Toothrot on Tuesday 8th September 18:56

[snotrag]

Is oil surge/starvation a problem at that kind of power? I guess with that power your chassis is suitably ugpraded such that it must be getting thrown about a bit...

Dry sump an option?

[Herman Toothrot]

snotrag said:

Is oil surge/starvation a problem at that kind of power? I guess with that power your chassis is suitably ugpraded such that it must be getting thrown about a bit...

Dry sump an option?

Power shouldn't really effect oil surge or not, thats more down to chassis. I already have P5 coilovers, polybushed, torsen type 2 diff, light weight alloys, R888s, cars hugely stripped. I have just ordered some 270/276mm brakes. The 1.8 brakes are not really upto the job as the car is at present.

Depending on what the engine builder says once he's stripped the engine then I'll look at baffling if needed Already runs a 13row oil cooler, coolant re-route is ordered, has a Koyo Alloy rad, higher rated fuel pup, dual feed big bore fuel rail..

Only bolt ons I'm contemplating changing are the front subframe for a tubular item and the Link G3 ecu for a Solaris, but thats only possibly.

[maz8062]

Oil surge killed Lee's 300bhp (stock) engine. A dry sump is recommended for big powered track 5's.

[Herman Toothrot]

maz8062 said:

Oil surge killed Lee's 300bhp (stock) engine. A dry sump is recommended for big powered track 5's.

Really not that he tried to run 300bhp on a stock engine hammering the bearings apart or poor tuning? I've been running 260ish for 3 years worth of track days and the stock engines as sweet as day one.

Edited by Herman Toothrot on Tuesday 8th September 19:27

[mk1salami]

Hi Herman,

I'd be interested to see your progress with this. Where are you sourcing the parts from? And if you don't mind me asking, how much is the engineering place charging to put it all together for you? PM me if you like.

Also what brakes are you ordering? Have you considered the Corrado 280mm conversion?

Edited by mk1salami on Tuesday 8th September 19:34

[kevham]

There's not many folk have done it. A few on Nutz (Rocdoc springs to mind). I sold a Mk2 head that had been built by Kiwi Rog (well known in lotus circles) to a guy who was building a turbo engine and looking for 300+ bhp. Don't know how he's getting on though.

Sounds like you'll end up with quite a beast when its done. Keep us posted.
Cheers,

Kev

PS - just checked your profile. Your car fleet has some similarities to mine

Edited by kevham on Wednesday 9th September 00:05

[Herman Toothrot]

kevham said:

There's not many folk have done it. A few on Nutz (Rocdoc springs to mind). I sold a Mk2 head that had been built by Kiwi Rog (well known in lotus circles) to a guy who was building a turbo engine and looking for 300+ bhp. Don't know how he's getting on though.

Sounds like you'll end up with quite a beast when its done. Keep us posted.
Cheers,

Kev

PS - just checked your profile. Your car fleet has some similarities to mine

Edited by kevham on Wednesday 9th September 00:05

Oh I didn't know Rockdoc has a built engine. I'll ask him some questions

The fleet is very similar, thats three people I know now who run VX220s & MX5's, I know a couple of others with Elise & MX5 as well

[Snoggledog]

Might be worth dropping a note to Sidewaysste of 5-Speed.

Good chap who really knows his stuff. I know he's tied up this week with the MX5OC parade thing at Mallory Park this weekend so might be better to wait until next week.

[MX-5 Lazza]

Steve has a big turbo (looks like it came from a bus ) on a built engine but that's David-MTs old built FM engine, not one he built himself. He does know his stuff though as does Phil Dixson. I know Phil has done some building himself too - I've seen an engine in parts on an engine mount in his garage

[Herman Toothrot]

MX-5 Lazza said:

Steve has a big turbo (looks like it came from a bus ) on a built engine but that's David-MTs old built FM engine, not one he built himself. He does know his stuff though as does Phil Dixson. I know Phil has done some building himself too - I've seen an engine in parts on an engine mount in his garage

Interesting I thought Steve used to work for Phil before going it alone and he was the main tech?

Phils garage (if its the same place I went to off the M40) is a big open dirty place I'd not want an open engine there i'm afraid, fine for general garage work, but i'd not be keen on an expensive engine being built there, could just imagine a gust of wind coating it in grit. We worry about binning our OEM hepa filters for foam, cotton or paper gauze induction kits incase dust gets in. Engines need clean environments to be put together if they are to last.

[MX-5 Lazza]

Steve did work for Phil for a while but Phil was doing tech work long before than and has carried on doing it since. He's generally considered the top MX5 performance tech in the country (it's just getting in touch with him and pinning him down to a date to get work done that's the problem!).
His garage isn't in an ideal location with JCBs trundling past on the dirt-track outside but it's pretty clean at the back of the garage. Whether it's clean enough for what you're doing though I can't say.

[Snoggledog]

MX-5 Lazza said:

Steve has a big turbo (looks like it came from a bus ) on a built engine but that's David-MTs old built FM engine, not one he built himself.

I've been out in that car of his. Quick hardly does it justice. BTW his new intercooler design is rather neat.

MX-5 Lazza said:

He does know his stuff though as does Phil Dixson. I know Phil has done some building himself too -I've seen an engine in parts on an engine mount in his garage

IIRC, and this was just over a year ago the engine at the back of the workshop was Steves. Could be wrong on that though. I'm not disputing that Phil doesn't know his stuff, far from it in fact. I was just putting forward Steve as another option for go faster trickery.