Failed MOT today: are they trying it on though? Opinions?

[bluetone]

Hello all,

Well I guess for any 13 year year old car, the MOT is a bit of a test and despite doing quite a bit of prep, my MK1 failed today

The leaking brake fluid from a front caliper is fair-do's - I hadn't noticed this and have just ordered a reconditioned unit for fitment at the weekend = no quibbles there obviously.

Now then for the emissions test. Bit of background, I took it to the same place for it's MOT a year a go and it failed on emissions; there was the print-out and I was maybe half expecting this as the car was on its original CAT and I had recently cut the rattling heatshield off, which I was aware could impair the CATs performance (as they need to get well hot to work efficiently and without the heatshield it would be cooled by airflow). They were struggling to get the CAT hot enough to bring the numbers in and as the radiator overflow was putting out some water, canned the test. So they reckoned the CAT was maybe gone so I supplied them an aftermarket CAT from a reputable source which they fitted and bingo the numbers in the green zone on the re-test.

So we come to today's emissions test at the same place; result = same scenario "car was getting too hot, putting out fluid, the numbers were too high so we canned the test, no print-out as it was obvious it wasn't going to pass the test, can we sell you a new CAT maybe that would do it?" The guy is looking distinctly furtive whilst saying all this, lack of eye-contact etc (in my job I have gotten pretty good at reading body language over the years. He says the fan didn't come on during the test. I am thinking/suggesting maybe thermostat (a common-ish fault) he replies maybe a fan relay or switch. I tell him he replaced the CAT 11 months a go. He reckons that all that is needed is for me to bring the car in straight after a good thrash when the system is nice and hot and he'll give the emissions test straight away (ie. when the CAT is at working temperature).

Now then, I know it makes sense that the CAT needs to be nice and hot and that in the confines of a testing bay (presumably without a fan to cool the rad, I will have to ask), that the system may struggle to up to temp but also I am thinking that maybe he could be gouging for additional work.

Sorry for length etc, all informed opinions/experiences gratefully received.

BTW, yes I will be looking to use a different testing station next time

efa

Edited by bluetone on Thursday 4th June 05:03

[MrV]

Have you thought about doing away with the Cat as it is old enough to not need it for the Mot

Mines decatted and has always passed with out any problems.

[Stickers]

Bluetone,

Just thinking out load here - would there normally be a guarantee with the original CAT that they fitted? if so, I'm presuming that this should be within 12 Months of the last MOT!

[bluetone]

Stickers said:

Bluetone,

Just thinking out load here - would there normally be a guarantee with the original CAT that they fitted? if so, I'm presuming that this should be within 12 Months of the last MOT!

Good point Stickers if it turns out to be faulty I will speak to the supplier. Cheers.

[Podie]

Use a council MOT station - they have no garage with which to sell you bits.

See wwww.moneysavingexpert.com for details.

[bluetone]

MrV said:

Have you thought about doing away with the Cat as it is old enough to not need it for the Mot

Mines decatted and has always passed with out any problems.

Assume you have an early eunos MrV? My UK car = different standards

[Fruitcake]

Podie said:

Use a council MOT station - they have no garage with which to sell you bits.

See wwww.moneysavingexpert.com for details.

Do this. Then you'll know for sure.

[MrV]

bluetone said:

MrV said:

Have you thought about doing away with the Cat as it is old enough to not need it for the Mot

Mines decatted and has always passed with out any problems.

Assume you have an early eunos MrV? My UK car = different standards

Mines a 92 and UK car but its any pre 95 car rather than just imports.


HTH

[bluetone]

MrV said:

bluetone said:

MrV said:

Have you thought about doing away with the Cat as it is old enough to not need it for the Mot

Mines decatted and has always passed with out any problems.

Assume you have an early eunos MrV? My UK car = different standards

Mines a 92 and UK car but its any pre 95 car rather than just imports.


HTH

The less stringent emissions regs apply to cars registered before July 31st 1992.

[Odie]

get a second opinion, ive had garages try to fail my car on things like "Indicator bubbles wrong shade of orange" and also fitting stuff without my permission (new wiper blades are £25 a pop)

So go somewhere else (preferably an mot test station instead of a garage, as already stated)

[MrV]

bluetone said:

MrV said:

bluetone said:

MrV said:

Have you thought about doing away with the Cat as it is old enough to not need it for the Mot

Mines decatted and has always passed with out any problems.

Assume you have an early eunos MrV? My UK car = different standards

Mines a 92 and UK car but its any pre 95 car rather than just imports.


HTH

The less stringent emissions regs apply to cars registered before July 31st 1992.

Thats that idea down the road then

Don't suppose you still have the invoice for the replacement cat do you ?.If not then I can only see two options for you either take it elsewhere and explain the problem if your lucky they may test it for free before you then get them to MOT it or stump up for another cat

[bluetone]

MrV said:

bluetone said:

MrV said:

bluetone said:

MrV said:

Have you thought about doing away with the Cat as it is old enough to not need it for the Mot

Mines decatted and has always passed with out any problems.

Assume you have an early eunos MrV? My UK car = different standards

Mines a 92 and UK car but its any pre 95 car rather than just imports.


HTH

The less stringent emissions regs apply to cars registered before July 31st 1992.

Thats that idea down the road then

Don't suppose you still have the invoice for the replacement cat do you ?.If not then I can only see two options for you either take it elsewhere and explain the problem if your lucky they may test it for free before you then get them to MOT it or stump up for another cat

I will give them the chance to re-test the emissions Monday a.m. after a good blast when eveything is nice and hot. If she's still not hitting the numbers then it's off to another testing station for a 2nd opinion and back to the CAT supplier if necessary.

[MX-5 Lazza]

I doubt any warranty on the cat will be worth anything. The cat will live forever if it's treated perfectly, it'll only die if it gets harsh treatment i.e. fording a river when it's very hot, engine running rich (most likely cause) etc. The chances of the supplier just handing over another new cat just because the last one failed after a year without any proof that the car is running perfectly and it hasn't been mistreated is highly doubtful.

I'd go the "independent test" route first. If it still fails then get it to someone who can test the cat. If the cat has failed then you need to find out why. It's unlikely to be a cat fault - you'll need someone to test the car to see if/why it's running rich and killing the cat.

[stag14]

bluetone said:

Hello all,

Well I guess for any 13 year year old car, the MOT is a bit of a test and despite doing quite a bit of prep, my MK1 failed today

The leaking brake fluid from a front caliper is fair-do's - I hadn't noticed this and have just ordered a reconditioned unit for fitment at the weekend = no quibbles there obviously.

Now then for the emissions test. Bit of background, I took it to the same place for it's MOT a year a go and it failed on emissions; there was the print-out and I was maybe half expecting this as the car was on its original CAT and I had recently cut the rattling heatshield off, which I was aware could impair the CATs performance (as they need to get well hot to work efficiently and without the heatshield it would be cooled by airflow). They were struggling to get the CAT hot enough to bring the numbers in and as the radiator overflow was putting out some water, canned the test. So they reckoned the CAT was maybe gone so I supplied them an aftermarket CAT from a reputable source which they fitted and bingo the numbers in the green zone on the re-test.

So we come to today's emissions test at the same place; result = same scenario "car was getting too hot, putting out fluid, the numbers were too high so we canned the test, no print-out as it was obvious it wasn't going to pass the test, can we sell you a new CAT maybe that would do it?" The guy is looking distinctly furtive whilst saying all this, lack of eye-contact etc (in my job I have gotten pretty good at reading body language over the years. He says the fan didn't come on during the test. I am thinking/suggesting maybe thermostat (a common-ish fault) he replies maybe a fan relay or switch. I tell him he replaced the CAT 11 months a go. He reckons that all that is needed is for me to bring the car in straight after a good thrash when the system is nice and hot and he'll give the emissions test straight away (ie. when the CAT is at working temperature).

Now then, I know it makes sense that the CAT needs to be nice and hot and that in the confines of a testing bay (presumably without a fan to cool the rad, I will have to ask), that the system may struggle to up to temp but also I am thinking that maybe he could be gouging for additional work.

Sorry for length etc, all informed opinions/experiences gratefully received.

BTW, yes I will be looking to use a different testing station next time

efa

Edited by bluetone on Thursday 4th June 05:03

thow it in for the scrappage allowance , you wont need a ticket for 3 years then !!!!!!

[bluetone]

stag14 said:

thow it in for the scrappage allowance , you wont need a ticket for 3 years then !!!!!!

Steady - that's close to heresey on here!

[dg45]

had similar problems a few years ago ,failing emissions garage gave massive quote for replacement parts ,took it back hot and it flew through this was the same garage though that when it failed rear brake roller test he said i would need all new calipers pads etc cables freeing off ,turns out i had forgotten to adjust handbrake screw by the lever ,took it back and it nearly gave him wiplash when he yanked on the handbrake lol,since found really good spanner man and garage and all has been well since.

[bluetone]

dg45 said:

had similar problems a few years ago ,failing emissions garage gave massive quote for replacement parts ,took it back hot and it flew through this was the same garage though that when it failed rear brake roller test he said i would need all new calipers pads etc cables freeing off ,turns out i had forgotten to adjust handbrake screw by the lever ,took it back and it nearly gave him wiplash when he yanked on the handbrake lol,since found really good spanner man and garage and all has been well since.

Fingers crossed the hot-run test works Monday a.m.

Have checked my fan relay+fuse are OK by jumping TFA-GND on the diagnostics box, so now maybe thermoswitch is faulty/wiring to check etc. Time to deploy the old faithful engine diagnostics resistor/LED thingy to see if the ECU is bleating about anything.

Hope the rain holds-off so I can swap the brake caliper in the dry!

[bluetone]

Reconditioned caliper fitted, bled and test-driven with no drama

Also cleared down the fault codes on the ECU - no new ones post test-drive so hopefully there is nothing fundamentally awry.

Will have a look-see at the condition of my thermostat this p.m. - from a bit of research done on the topic, it seems a good idea to replace this (cheap/easy to fit) item every few years or so.

[Autogasm]

Working in the motortrade, this is something that I come across often. Presumably the Cat that was fitted wasn't a genuine one because of cost?? If this is the case, thats the problem. The cheap aftermarket Cats are cheap because the precious metals they contain which reduce the emissions produced by the car are cut to an absoloute minimum. Very often the cars only just creep through the test. Regularly, they have to be driven vigourously down the road to get them really hot. I'd suggest 60mph in third gear for at least five miles.

The emissions test is one part of the test that a machine decides whether the car is acceptable, not the tester, so you can't really blame him can you? I know that the motortrade has a bad name, but it sounds to me as though your tester is trying to get it through for you, and in my opinion is doing his best to help?

[bluetone]

Autogasm said:

Working in the motortrade, this is something that I come across often. Presumably the Cat that was fitted wasn't a genuine one because of cost?? If this is the case, thats the problem. The cheap aftermarket Cats are cheap because the precious metals they contain which reduce the emissions produced by the car are cut to an absoloute minimum. Very often the cars only just creep through the test. Regularly, they have to be driven vigourously down the road to get them really hot. I'd suggest 60mph in third gear for at least five miles.

The emissions test is one part of the test that a machine decides whether the car is acceptable, not the tester, so you can't really blame him can you? I know that the motortrade has a bad name, but it sounds to me as though your tester is trying to get it through for you, and in my opinion is doing his best to help?

Thanks for the viewpoint; your points are valid - simply that getting the same (rather obvious/slightly numpty) "replace the CAT" response two years in a row does not inspire confidence. You may have a point in that he is making constructive suggestions to address the issue - we shall see how I get on tomorrow a.m. - *If* the numbers come in when the car is hot, it may just leave me thinking I swapped the old CAT out needlessly.

Thanks again for posting a counter-point

Does your Countach struggle come MOT time btw?
(also rather jealous of your Red Rose Cerbera - I'd have one in my 'fantasy garage' if my Lottery numbers came in )

Edited by bluetone on Sunday 7th June 19:18