Which dampers to replace original Bilsteins?
Discussion
Hullo there. My R-Limited is feeling like it has tired Bilsteins. At least that is to say that they feel a certain way that I've read could be an indication that they're past their best. I guess it could be poor adjustment of some kind, but just for argument's sake let's assume the car would benefit from new dampers. I've heard dodgy reports of Gaz reliability, and all the different specs of the different models from all the manufacturers that supply replacements just go waaaaaaay over my head. Anybody got any suggestions for as close a replacement to the original Bilsteins as possible? I.e. same sort of ride height and what not. Thanks 
Not sitting on laurels. Times move on and they have moved with the times. Gaz Gold moved things on a bit and P5 have updated to keep with them.
Whether one is better than the other I have no idea but I would guess that it would depend on a combination of your expectations, driving taste/style, and road or track use.
Whether one is better than the other I have no idea but I would guess that it would depend on a combination of your expectations, driving taste/style, and road or track use.
MattjK said:
Hullo there. My R-Limited is feeling like it has tired Bilsteins. At least that is to say that they feel a certain way that I've read could be an indication that they're past their best. I guess it could be poor adjustment of some kind, but just for argument's sake let's assume the car would benefit from new dampers. I've heard dodgy reports of Gaz reliability, and all the different specs of the different models from all the manufacturers that supply replacements just go waaaaaaay over my head. Anybody got any suggestions for as close a replacement to the original Bilsteins as possible? I.e. same sort of ride height and what not. Thanks
Whats the mileage on your car? The Billies should last around 100k miles or 160k kms. I actually really like the Billies, I'm on my 2nd car with them - the problem is they can get quite harsh - I understand the bushes go hard/brittle at this age - trouble is if you doing the bushes you may as well change/refurb the rest. Exact problem I have with the car at 136k kms. I would make sure your Alignment is well sorted first before you spend a chuck on the suspension if your mileage is not too high.The car doesn't have a full history so all I can say is that it has 78k on the clock. They do feel harsh on anything bumpy, although they're fine over smoother undulations in the road. Most B-roads are a nightmare though. I could swear I've lost a few teeth, never mind fillings. I'll have to see about the alignment. The only Eunos specialist near me is one I've used and I don't trust, so they're out of the question for me. I'll see where these Wheels In Motion people are. They seem to be popular at least!
Bilsteins are good shocks but like a lot of the gas charged monotube manufacturers they do have this ethos of soft springs and hard valving and letting the damper do the work.This leads to a jittery ride that some people hate on B roads, I used to drive a S ltd regularly and loved the handling and put up with the ride.
If you look at Gaz trackday set-ups like the Hornet car, that will give a similar ride but runs 450lb fr and 375lb rear springs so is not far off a race set-up and if you run 275lb fr and 200lb rear, its like your favorite armchair and great for a daily drive.
Its all about getting the right advice to ensure you get the ride and handling you want and Tony at Wim now has 5 different Gaz gold kits to suit from a daily drive through to Ma5da race kits.
On the nickel kits sold through MX-5 car parts, I'm seeing them next week and we will offer a new road kit and the existing fast road/trackday, as well as a bespoke kit for track on a special order basis.
If you look at Gaz trackday set-ups like the Hornet car, that will give a similar ride but runs 450lb fr and 375lb rear springs so is not far off a race set-up and if you run 275lb fr and 200lb rear, its like your favorite armchair and great for a daily drive.
Its all about getting the right advice to ensure you get the ride and handling you want and Tony at Wim now has 5 different Gaz gold kits to suit from a daily drive through to Ma5da race kits.
On the nickel kits sold through MX-5 car parts, I'm seeing them next week and we will offer a new road kit and the existing fast road/trackday, as well as a bespoke kit for track on a special order basis.
hornetrider said:
MX-5 Lazza said:
I'd stick with Gaz Gold from WiM or Performance5 SportDrive (the new replacements for the PureDrive).
Interesting - do you know why P5 have replaced PD already?Added to that monotubes need regassing and servicing about every two years so you need to buy off a source that has an in-house servicing and warranty facility.
Ab Shocks said:
Bilsteins are good shocks but like a lot of the gas charged monotube manufacturers they do have this ethos of soft springs and hard valving and letting the damper do the work.This leads to a jittery ride that some people hate on B roads, I used to drive a S ltd regularly and loved the handling and put up with the ride.
If you look at Gaz trackday set-ups like the Hornet car, that will give a similar ride but runs 450lb fr and 375lb rear springs so is not far off a race set-up and if you run 275lb fr and 200lb rear, its like your favorite armchair and great for a daily drive.
Its all about getting the right advice to ensure you get the ride and handling you want and Tony at Wim now has 5 different Gaz gold kits to suit from a daily drive through to Ma5da race kits.
On the nickel kits sold through MX-5 car parts, I'm seeing them next week and we will offer a new road kit and the existing fast road/trackday, as well as a bespoke kit for track on a special order basis.
Is there a simple option to fix the ride on the 5s with Billies? Does changing the springs or bushes help sort the ride but retain the handling? If so, what springs would be best? Part of the reason for buying and RS for me is the spec and wanting to keep it somewhat stock - swapping out the Shocks seems like the wrong thing to do - better to start with another model if I want to swap out the whole suspension. Also, don't the S Specials, RS-Limiteds etc. have different/lower suspension frames/arms? does this make any difference to the spec, ride height etc. with these models? will the car end up sitting too low?If you look at Gaz trackday set-ups like the Hornet car, that will give a similar ride but runs 450lb fr and 375lb rear springs so is not far off a race set-up and if you run 275lb fr and 200lb rear, its like your favorite armchair and great for a daily drive.
Its all about getting the right advice to ensure you get the ride and handling you want and Tony at Wim now has 5 different Gaz gold kits to suit from a daily drive through to Ma5da race kits.
On the nickel kits sold through MX-5 car parts, I'm seeing them next week and we will offer a new road kit and the existing fast road/trackday, as well as a bespoke kit for track on a special order basis.
jazzybee said:
Is there a simple option to fix the ride on the 5s with Billies? Does changing the springs or bushes help sort the ride but retain the handling? If so, what springs would be best? Part of the reason for buying and RS for me is the spec and wanting to keep it somewhat stock - swapping out the Shocks seems like the wrong thing to do - better to start with another model if I want to swap out the whole suspension. Also, don't the S Specials, RS-Limiteds etc. have different/lower suspension frames/arms? does this make any difference to the spec, ride height etc. with these models? will the car end up sitting too low?
If you want to retain the Billies I'm afraid it will involve some work and I would talk to Bilstein UK in the Midlands.They could revalve and service the units for you but with fixed damping you would need to talk about usage and spring rates with them because by changing spring rates up or down the damping needs to be adjusted to suit.
Its a lot of work that I could do myself by dynoing shocks and spring testing but for a one off project I couldn't justify the cost.
Ab Shocks said:
hornetrider said:
MX-5 Lazza said:
I'd stick with Gaz Gold from WiM or Performance5 SportDrive (the new replacements for the PureDrive).
Interesting - do you know why P5 have replaced PD already?Added to that monotubes need regassing and servicing about every two years so you need to buy off a source that has an in-house servicing and warranty facility.
Derek's right, we've gone for a monotube design, the advantages are detailed on the site. As I've said, we've been very lucky to be able to design a damper and not have to rely on working ready-made units from the Far East such as BK/Driftworks/Racing Red. The dampers are 100% machined in the UK and externally only use anodized alloy or stainless steel and we've taken particular care to design different types of valving to ensure we're not asking customers to return them for a rebuild every 12 months. As a quick service point though, our external Schrader valve means checking gas pressure is as easy as checking tyre pressure.
Obviously sealing is very important, so we have low friction rod seals and the damper is fully enclosed by a dust boot. In the unlikely event of a seal failing, these are kept in stock and the damper can be stripped down and rebuilt in the minimum of time. We'll be looking at service centres in a few different places in the UK as more units get out there (we have 60 sets reserved at the moment!).
jazzybee said:
Is there a simple option to fix the ride on the 5s with Billies? Does changing the springs or bushes help sort the ride but retain the handling? If so, what springs would be best? Part of the reason for buying and RS for me is the spec and wanting to keep it somewhat stock - swapping out the Shocks seems like the wrong thing to do - better to start with another model if I want to swap out the whole suspension. Also, don't the S Specials, RS-Limiteds etc. have different/lower suspension frames/arms? does this make any difference to the spec, ride height etc. with these models? will the car end up sitting too low?
You might find that a stiffer spring helps as it'll change the damping ratio, but it's not really the right way to do it. Also, beware of polyurethane bushes if you're having issues with you current suspension. By removing chassis flex you're asking the damper to do more work and if it's not up to the task it'll only make it worse.Phil
Edited by Phil @ P5 on Tuesday 21st April 08:48
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