Aren't MX-5s a bit.......?
Discussion
Ok - first post. Might as well stick my head over the parapet...
You know the score - like so many others on here I'm late twenties, I've got a little bit of cash and I want something a bit more interesting to drive around in.
So, lightweight, rear-wheel drive etc...
MX-5 fits the bill perfectly, right? And everyone raves about them on here, so....
I test-drove a '93 1.8 Eunos S. Black, Nardi interior etc, hood down, bright autumn afternoon... and was weirdly underwhelmed.
I just felt too light to drive - my Micra felt butch by comparison!
So, what options are there to give this perfect little lightweight sports car more of an old-school feel? I've heard bypassing the powersteering is popular. Has anyone on here done this? What else is possible to harden up the feel of the car? Short of turbocharging!
Or, shall I just take a punt on an early dash Porsche 944...?!
Many thanks for any responses received!
You know the score - like so many others on here I'm late twenties, I've got a little bit of cash and I want something a bit more interesting to drive around in.
So, lightweight, rear-wheel drive etc...
MX-5 fits the bill perfectly, right? And everyone raves about them on here, so....
I test-drove a '93 1.8 Eunos S. Black, Nardi interior etc, hood down, bright autumn afternoon... and was weirdly underwhelmed.
I just felt too light to drive - my Micra felt butch by comparison!
So, what options are there to give this perfect little lightweight sports car more of an old-school feel? I've heard bypassing the powersteering is popular. Has anyone on here done this? What else is possible to harden up the feel of the car? Short of turbocharging!
Or, shall I just take a punt on an early dash Porsche 944...?!
Many thanks for any responses received!
Don't base your opinion on a single test drive. The cars are very sensitive to tyres and geometry. Chances are the car you drove hadn't been aligned for a while and/or had budget tyres. Getting a full geometry somewhere that knows what it's doing can completely transform the feel of the car. Fitting decent tyres such as Goodyear F1 or Toyo T1R makes cornering feel much more secure.
If you drive it like you'd drive most cars it'll feel slow. It needs to be thrashed, especially an early 1.6. Keep it over 4k rpm and it'll feel much more alive and over 5-6k rpm and it starts feeling fast enough to be fun. To make quick progress you need to push it right up to the red-line at 7k rpm. The engines are bullet-proof so you won't hurt it by thrashing it.
If you drive it like you'd drive most cars it'll feel slow. It needs to be thrashed, especially an early 1.6. Keep it over 4k rpm and it'll feel much more alive and over 5-6k rpm and it starts feeling fast enough to be fun. To make quick progress you need to push it right up to the red-line at 7k rpm. The engines are bullet-proof so you won't hurt it by thrashing it.
Yes Mk1 MR2 is a great little car but more susceptible to rust and head gasket failure than an MX-5. It's getting quite hard to find decent ones now and you'd have to spend a wad to get a good one. The supercharged JDM version is a corker but very rare.
Early 944 won't be any faster than a Mk1 MX-5 if you follow Lazza's advice. It will, however, sound better but will probably fall to bits and cost you an absolute fortune to fix. Later cars are a much better proposition (much more bhp, much better interior) but still cost a fortune to run and repair.
MX-5 has a lot of potential. It might seem a bit weedy at first but with some tried and tested modifications, it can be turned into a beast for not a huge amount of money.
Early 944 won't be any faster than a Mk1 MX-5 if you follow Lazza's advice. It will, however, sound better but will probably fall to bits and cost you an absolute fortune to fix. Later cars are a much better proposition (much more bhp, much better interior) but still cost a fortune to run and repair.
MX-5 has a lot of potential. It might seem a bit weedy at first but with some tried and tested modifications, it can be turned into a beast for not a huge amount of money.
kevham said:
Yes Mk1 MR2 is a great little car but more susceptible to rust and head gasket failure than an MX-5.
Not to mention shredding their rear tyres every 5k miles and slinging you into a ditch if you are 'pushing it' at a roundabout (a quick, but expensive, lesson in the handling characteristics of mid-engined cars).Dude, if the MX-5 was too girly, stick with your Micra.
Or, try another one. There are some very good reasons why it got so popular.
Try a few different MX5's as they can all feel different due to adjustable 4 wheel alignment.
If you are after a 944, don't think it will be in the same budget as the MX5, even though there are very cheap models to be had. If you can afford it, buy a 944 S2 or Turbo and you will be very happy but if you can only afford a 944 Lux or similar, you would be better of with the MX5 as the mazda costs very little to run.
If you are after a 944, don't think it will be in the same budget as the MX5, even though there are very cheap models to be had. If you can afford it, buy a 944 S2 or Turbo and you will be very happy but if you can only afford a 944 Lux or similar, you would be better of with the MX5 as the mazda costs very little to run.
Definitely try a few - as said, if the alignment is off they can be dogs to drive. I often forget about having to nail the throttle and ride the revs as my other car is a turbo, and when I nail it to 6k it is quicker than I remember!
The S-Spec has Bilstein suspension which is a bit uncompromising and IMHO to hard for UK roads, so it can be skittish. In all honesty I think the Mk.2 standard suspension is fantastic!
Re power steering, I understand the car was designed with it. It is very feelsome and I don't have a problem with it. My dad had a UK 1.8 and I don't remember the non-assisted steering being any better than mine. Plus disabling it makes it heavier than not having it in the first place IIRC!
As has been said - also try MR2, 944 S2 if you can stretch, Suzuki Cappucino...
The S-Spec has Bilstein suspension which is a bit uncompromising and IMHO to hard for UK roads, so it can be skittish. In all honesty I think the Mk.2 standard suspension is fantastic!
Re power steering, I understand the car was designed with it. It is very feelsome and I don't have a problem with it. My dad had a UK 1.8 and I don't remember the non-assisted steering being any better than mine. Plus disabling it makes it heavier than not having it in the first place IIRC!
As has been said - also try MR2, 944 S2 if you can stretch, Suzuki Cappucino...
NDNDNDND said:
So, what options are there to give this perfect little lightweight sports car more of an old-school feel? I've heard bypassing the powersteering is popular. Has anyone on here done this? What else is possible to harden up the feel of the car? Short of turbocharging!
I have a UK 1.8 car which is non-PAS - maybe try one of these and see if it suits.Also, as others have said, the difference between a well set up MX5 and a poor one is vast. Try a few different cars maybe.
freerange7 said:
If you cannot drive a Mk1 MR2 without crashing it, give up.
I thought that a bit earlier. I have never pushed a car to it's limits and got away with it the way I did in my MR2. Fast responsive steering, neutral balance, not enough torque to break rear traction at low speeds. The only difficult bit about it was fitting things in the boot!I guess grumbledoak either never drove one (unlikely from the tone of the post) or drove one with bad geometry or dodgy tyres?
Edited by Ordinary Bloke on Sunday 18th January 00:22
Ordinary Bloke said:
I guess grumbledoak either never drove one (unlikely from the tone of the post) or drove one with bad geometry or dodgy tyres?
Nope. I went for an MX-5; my mate bought a Mk1 MR2.After he span it on a roundabout, trashing two wheels and his exhaust, three of us discussed it over a beer. Between us we knew nine people who owned or had owned an MR2. And all of them had done the same.
Edited by grumbledoak on Sunday 18th January 11:31
Legend has it that the Mk1 MR2 was a Lotus project when they were owned by Toyota, this was shelved for a while then released by Toyota a few years later.
The car was designed with typical lotus handling with a little under steer followed by over steer if rely pushed.
When you first drive this car it feels as though it is pushing the nose out in the corners and you cannot get the power down, specially if you have come from a front wheel drive car.
When the car is driven correctly it is very rewarding, a very quick point to point car.
The Mk2 was designed by Toyota trying to copy the Lotus set up, this car soon developed a reputation for throwing you off the road in a corner, as word spread the Mk1 was wrongly tarred with the same brush.
The problem was solved on the Mk2 with larger rear performance tyres and later with a different suspension set up.
I purchased my MX5 MK1 1.6 after driving my girlfriends car, it is not as quick as the MR2 as it delivers its power in a different way but the handling is as good as people say and very rewarding, I now drive a different longer way to work just to enjoy the road. Again with this car it can be driven badly making it tail happy or it can be driven correctly and very fast.
The car was designed with typical lotus handling with a little under steer followed by over steer if rely pushed.
When you first drive this car it feels as though it is pushing the nose out in the corners and you cannot get the power down, specially if you have come from a front wheel drive car.
When the car is driven correctly it is very rewarding, a very quick point to point car.
The Mk2 was designed by Toyota trying to copy the Lotus set up, this car soon developed a reputation for throwing you off the road in a corner, as word spread the Mk1 was wrongly tarred with the same brush.
The problem was solved on the Mk2 with larger rear performance tyres and later with a different suspension set up.
I purchased my MX5 MK1 1.6 after driving my girlfriends car, it is not as quick as the MR2 as it delivers its power in a different way but the handling is as good as people say and very rewarding, I now drive a different longer way to work just to enjoy the road. Again with this car it can be driven badly making it tail happy or it can be driven correctly and very fast.
freerange7 said:
The Mk2 was designed by Toyota trying to copy the Lotus set up, this car soon developed a reputation for throwing you off the road in a corner, as word spread the Mk1 was wrongly tarred with the same brush.
The problem was solved on the Mk2 with larger rear performance tyres and later with a different suspension set up.
Oopsie! A quick google would suggest that my mate had a Mk2. My apologies for (my) confusion.The problem was solved on the Mk2 with larger rear performance tyres and later with a different suspension set up.
Not sure about the larger tyres (it wasn't my car), but apparently part of the 'solution' was to toe-in the rear wheels, which is why they shred the rears so quickly.
Edited by grumbledoak on Sunday 18th January 21:37
grumbledoak said:
freerange7 said:
The Mk2 was designed by Toyota trying to copy the Lotus set up, this car soon developed a reputation for throwing you off the road in a corner, as word spread the Mk1 was wrongly tarred with the same brush.
The problem was solved on the Mk2 with larger rear performance tyres and later with a different suspension set up.
Oopsie! A quick google would suggest that my mate had a Mk2. My apologies for (my) confusion.The problem was solved on the Mk2 with larger rear performance tyres and later with a different suspension set up.
Not sure about the larger tyres (it wasn't my car), but apparently part of the 'solution' was to toe-in the rear wheels, which is why they shred the rears so quickly.
Edited by grumbledoak on Sunday 18th January 21:37
freerange7 said:
Legend has it that the Mk1 MR2 was a Lotus project when they were owned by Toyota, this was shelved for a while then released by Toyota a few years later.
Nice legend but untrue.Myself, my brother and my father worked for Lotus at the time. My father was one of the top Lotus composites (fibreglass to you and me) experts and Lotus were the top experts in the world so my father was in demand. Toyota mainly bought Lotus for their knowledge and expertise in composites. My father visited Toyota to help them set up a production line to create roofs for Landcruisers which were fibreglass. When he was there they showed him a clear field that was going to be an MR2 factory. They told him, "in a year this will be a fully functioning factory". My father told them that was impossible and that it would take much longer than a year. They also showed him a pre-production car and was invited to "sitting in and holding handles". They were very proud of the car that they had designed. When my father visited again about 10 months later the factory was in full production - a record at the time.
Lotus M90 a.k.a. the X100 was a project car that was not passed for production by Lotus and it was shelved when Collin Chapman died in I think 1981.
Lotus were heavily involved in the making of the 4AG engine to be used in the X100 but mounted in the front with in line gearbox and prop shaft to drive the rear wheels.
Toyota did design the MR2 MK1 using the 4AG engine but as a mid mounted unit driving the rear wheels as we know it.
Lotus engineer Roger Becker was heavily involved with the MK1s suspension and handling.
It is possibly a little unfair for me to say the MR2 was a reproduction of the Lotus project but the basic idea was.
MX5-Lazza, I agree with what you are saying
Lotus were heavily involved in the making of the 4AG engine to be used in the X100 but mounted in the front with in line gearbox and prop shaft to drive the rear wheels.
Toyota did design the MR2 MK1 using the 4AG engine but as a mid mounted unit driving the rear wheels as we know it.
Lotus engineer Roger Becker was heavily involved with the MK1s suspension and handling.
It is possibly a little unfair for me to say the MR2 was a reproduction of the Lotus project but the basic idea was.
MX5-Lazza, I agree with what you are saying
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