Really stiff springs.....?
Discussion
When i bought the new toy i was told by the seller that the previous owner has "lowered" the car.
It did seem to sit slightly lower than some others i'd looked at - not too low and looked good.
However i'm noticing that it deals really really badly with speed humps and divots / pot holes.
Bigger speed bumps that are quite wide are not to bad but the quite small but high ones (that you seem to get in retail parks) are terrible, the car sounds like the springs are bottoming out over these - especially at the front.
And a bumpy road is a nightmare.... not just uncomfortable but often bloody painful. The car hates holes/ divots / and bumps and humps.
Whats the easiest way to find out what springs are fitted / if they are standard / modifed ete etc?
Would some sort of geometry set up help etc etc?
Cheers
Dan
It did seem to sit slightly lower than some others i'd looked at - not too low and looked good.
However i'm noticing that it deals really really badly with speed humps and divots / pot holes.
Bigger speed bumps that are quite wide are not to bad but the quite small but high ones (that you seem to get in retail parks) are terrible, the car sounds like the springs are bottoming out over these - especially at the front.
And a bumpy road is a nightmare.... not just uncomfortable but often bloody painful. The car hates holes/ divots / and bumps and humps.
Whats the easiest way to find out what springs are fitted / if they are standard / modifed ete etc?
Would some sort of geometry set up help etc etc?
Cheers
Dan
Sounds like the car is fitted with lower springs on the standard shocks. This reduces the suspension travel so much of the time it will be sitting on the bump-stops. If this is the case then getting the geometry sorted won't help, it might handle better on a flat road but it won't help on speed-bumps or bumpy roads.
I've noticed this with mine too, its had a few bits done so I wouldn't be that suprised if the suspension was different, when I walk round the back of the car I can push it down easily enough but when I go over a pothole its like the suspension on the back is made of wood, no give at all. Front seems ok though strangely.....
Measure the wheel centre to arch lip.
The rear has precious little travel as std.
Unless you have really fancy shocks (like Tein flex) then if you are around 12.5" or below you will be hitting the bumpstops regularly.
I have tried loads of different suspension on my car (I currently have the flex) and basically if you want to look low you WILL compromise on ride.
There are 'fixes' such as:
Poly bumpstops
Mk2 suspension
Fatcat tops
FM tops
But having tried all these I still haven't found anything that isn't a compromise.
Really you need 12.5" front and 13" rear as a minimum IMO if you wish to retain a decent ride.
I have heard of others claiming a good ride at low hieghts but then they drive gently.
A mate with AGX's and FM tops can get his car thrown several feet on bumpy roads but he travels at 120mph down them. The guys saying the AGX/ Eibach combo is good are probably doing 50mph on similar roads, so make sure you take advice off drivers who drive like you.
HTH
The rear has precious little travel as std.
Unless you have really fancy shocks (like Tein flex) then if you are around 12.5" or below you will be hitting the bumpstops regularly.
I have tried loads of different suspension on my car (I currently have the flex) and basically if you want to look low you WILL compromise on ride.
There are 'fixes' such as:
Poly bumpstops
Mk2 suspension
Fatcat tops
FM tops
But having tried all these I still haven't found anything that isn't a compromise.
Really you need 12.5" front and 13" rear as a minimum IMO if you wish to retain a decent ride.
I have heard of others claiming a good ride at low hieghts but then they drive gently.
A mate with AGX's and FM tops can get his car thrown several feet on bumpy roads but he travels at 120mph down them. The guys saying the AGX/ Eibach combo is good are probably doing 50mph on similar roads, so make sure you take advice off drivers who drive like you.
HTH
chances are it's the bumpstops that are your problems - you really don't want to lower the car without taking these into account, they will give you a very crashy ride especially at the rear as there isn't much suspension travel as stock - lower it, and you're sitting on very hard rubber bumpstops which are like a massively rising rate spring
if your dampers are knackered too, you'll be hitting them harder and bouncing off them more than you'd like to which won't help
if your dampers are knackered too, you'll be hitting them harder and bouncing off them more than you'd like to which won't help
I never did get around to sorting this problem out.
The ride is still quite hard, is there an easy way to find out if the springs / shocks are standard or if either have been changed?
If they have, whats the easiest way to fix the problems i'm having?
Love the car to bits, handles brialliantly, but on a bumpy or even slighty rough road its a nightmare.
The ride is still quite hard, is there an easy way to find out if the springs / shocks are standard or if either have been changed?
If they have, whats the easiest way to fix the problems i'm having?
Love the car to bits, handles brialliantly, but on a bumpy or even slighty rough road its a nightmare.
Must measure mine tonight - hadn't seen this. I've noticed that over some sharp bumps you hear rather than feel the front wheels going over them, and then get thumped in the backside as the rears clatter them...
That said I think I'll be replacing the suspension soonish anyway. Anyone got a spare set of coilovers I can bolt on?
In fact... is bolting on new suspension something even a mechanical numpty can do?
That said I think I'll be replacing the suspension soonish anyway. Anyone got a spare set of coilovers I can bolt on?
In fact... is bolting on new suspension something even a mechanical numpty can do?
As already suggested, you can't have a low, glued to the road, fast cornering car & expect to be able to glide leisurely over every bump & pot hole.
My Mk1 is seriously low & I live in 'speed bump city', only I have learned to avoid certain roads & gingerly creep over those when forced to, also avoiding the odd pot hole as appropriate - not such a problem at speed.
Your car will more than likely leave any other standard model for dust on a tight & twisty smooth road, but struggle against a standard set-up on severely uneven surfaces - Liken this to a go-cart v 4X4.
As my old Granmother used to say, "You can't have your cake & eat it"
My Mk1 is seriously low & I live in 'speed bump city', only I have learned to avoid certain roads & gingerly creep over those when forced to, also avoiding the odd pot hole as appropriate - not such a problem at speed.
Your car will more than likely leave any other standard model for dust on a tight & twisty smooth road, but struggle against a standard set-up on severely uneven surfaces - Liken this to a go-cart v 4X4.
As my old Granmother used to say, "You can't have your cake & eat it"
Quick silver said:
As already suggested, you can't have a low, glued to the road, fast cornering car & expect to be able to glide leisurely over every bump & pot hole.
Your car will more than likely leave any other standard model for dust on a tight & twisty smooth road, but struggle against a standard set-up on severely uneven surfaces - Liken this to a go-cart v 4X4.
As my old Granmother used to say, "You can't have your cake & eat it"
I would agree with this - but the car needs some give/compliance in the springs and tyres to be at its best. Having a bit of leanage mid corner is a good thing as is a slightly softer setup for our crappy roads. I would think the tradeoff between ride height and fast road performance ultimately in the real world is quite high as how often do you find yourself in an instance where you are on a table top smooth road and wanting to play? Theres also a confidence factor at work - if you hit a bend and some uneven road its going to make you back off and slow you down if you know you are on the bumpstops and could potentially flick the car round if you try hard enough !Your car will more than likely leave any other standard model for dust on a tight & twisty smooth road, but struggle against a standard set-up on severely uneven surfaces - Liken this to a go-cart v 4X4.
As my old Granmother used to say, "You can't have your cake & eat it"
I can say with certainty my old 200sx with 290BHPish on coilovers and 18's etc would be slower than my bog standard MX5 on public roads for most of the reasons above.
snotrag said:
What colour are the springs?
And measure the ride height - from top of the arch to the centre of the wheel
Colour - erm dirty. I'll have acloser look at them later. And measure the ride height - from top of the arch to the centre of the wheel
Seem to have slightly less than 12" from wheel centre to lip of arch on the rear and only about 11" on the front.
Collin Chapman said "make the suspension adjustable and they will mess it up"
If the shocks are adjustable there could be a chance the last owner wound them up to max and fitted them, this will give a hard ride.
Most adjustables have the ability to be adjusted as the shock gets older and beds in compensating for wear.
If the car has only been lowered by about 30/35mm the original shocks should be OK, if they are worn out they will give a harsh rattly ride constantly bottoming out as the spring will be overworked.
If you need to replace the shocks gas would be better than oil, gas helps the shock return to normal length quicker returning the wheel to the road faster giving better grip and less drift in the corners as well as better braking.
If the shocks are adjustable there could be a chance the last owner wound them up to max and fitted them, this will give a hard ride.
Most adjustables have the ability to be adjusted as the shock gets older and beds in compensating for wear.
If the car has only been lowered by about 30/35mm the original shocks should be OK, if they are worn out they will give a harsh rattly ride constantly bottoming out as the spring will be overworked.
If you need to replace the shocks gas would be better than oil, gas helps the shock return to normal length quicker returning the wheel to the road faster giving better grip and less drift in the corners as well as better braking.
Dan_1981 said:
is there an easy way to find out if the springs / shocks are standard or if either have been changed?
If they have, whats the easiest way to fix the problems i'm having?
Look at them tell us what you see or take a pic.If they have, whats the easiest way to fix the problems i'm having?
Then either raise the platforms (if you have adj) or bin the springs and possibly the shocks too.
Impossible to give much of an answer until you know what you have.
Those measurements sound rather low - mines at 12.8 inch front, 13.2 inches at rear, as measured at my alignment session last month.
Theres no way I'd want to go any lower either - when I invest in a new setup i'll be looking for a little more ride height even.
As said, for a road car -a softer, plusher suspension setup IS better - you need compliance, not stiffness.
I beleive that softer springs and stiffer ARB's are better suited to road driving - ARBS cover the left-right weight throw, and on the road you never really use full braking so dive is not a worry with softish springs - conversely on a track you want stiffer springs and less ARB, to cover left right and front-rear weight changes, but leaving all wheels fully independent for max grip.
Heres mine at its current ride height (old wheels but same diameter)
Theres no way I'd want to go any lower either - when I invest in a new setup i'll be looking for a little more ride height even.
As said, for a road car -a softer, plusher suspension setup IS better - you need compliance, not stiffness.
I beleive that softer springs and stiffer ARB's are better suited to road driving - ARBS cover the left-right weight throw, and on the road you never really use full braking so dive is not a worry with softish springs - conversely on a track you want stiffer springs and less ARB, to cover left right and front-rear weight changes, but leaving all wheels fully independent for max grip.
Heres mine at its current ride height (old wheels but same diameter)
t ride. Dan_1981 said:
Front Spring (Unjacked)
There appears to be hardly any gap between the coils, which means you have hardly any suspension at all, which is bloody dangerous.If you just fitted stock springs and dampers, you will be making a 1000% improvement. You won't believe the transformation. Possibly just a cheap set of Monroes will make a 100% improvement to your car.
As above look like stock shocks with very low springs.
The gaps are decieving there is movement, not a lot but at that height there doesn't need to be as you're soon on the B stops
Bin the lot and start again.
PLEASE take a read of some of the suspension threads on here or Nutz before asking which ones to buy.
The gaps are decieving there is movement, not a lot but at that height there doesn't need to be as you're soon on the B stops
Bin the lot and start again.
PLEASE take a read of some of the suspension threads on here or Nutz before asking which ones to buy.
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