Wet roads and slip roads... A tale of near misses!
Discussion
Hi all.
Had my first very large moment on Tuesday morning. Joining the M6 on a slip road curving downhill, and to the left.
(In the pic, the car is facing the way I was coming!)
Coming on to the slip road and beginning to feed in the power, and
........
As the back began to let go, I tried to feather the throttle rather than coming totally off the power, and risking a tank slapper putting me into the drivers side barrier. At this point I was parallel to the slip road and sliding down it, and could see the cars behind me out of the passengers side windown, and looking around, I could also see the telegraph pole that the car was beginning to move backwards and sideways towards...... out of the drivers side window!
At this point the car went 180 Degrees, and went backwards down the verge... coming eventually to a halt as you can see it, with the slip road traffic oncoming!
Got out and had a look around, not a single mark. Not even a scuffed alloy, although there was grass and gravel inbetween the sidewall of the tyre, and the rim....
AS you can see from the skid marks on the gravel (which are shorter than the ones in my trollies) it was a very close one indeed, and throughout it all I was not much more than a passenger!
Please be careful.
Regards
Finkers
Had my first very large moment on Tuesday morning. Joining the M6 on a slip road curving downhill, and to the left.
(In the pic, the car is facing the way I was coming!)
Coming on to the slip road and beginning to feed in the power, and
........As the back began to let go, I tried to feather the throttle rather than coming totally off the power, and risking a tank slapper putting me into the drivers side barrier. At this point I was parallel to the slip road and sliding down it, and could see the cars behind me out of the passengers side windown, and looking around, I could also see the telegraph pole that the car was beginning to move backwards and sideways towards...... out of the drivers side window!
At this point the car went 180 Degrees, and went backwards down the verge... coming eventually to a halt as you can see it, with the slip road traffic oncoming!
Got out and had a look around, not a single mark. Not even a scuffed alloy, although there was grass and gravel inbetween the sidewall of the tyre, and the rim....
AS you can see from the skid marks on the gravel (which are shorter than the ones in my trollies) it was a very close one indeed, and throughout it all I was not much more than a passenger!
Please be careful.
Regards
Finkers
Something similar happened yesterday morning to a guy I know from our local club who was joining the M3. Thankfully it seems that his damage wasn't too bad, scuffed wheel and dent in door/wing. Glad to hear that you and the car were safe.
Cold wet mornings are here again so we need to be extra careful on the roads.
Cold wet mornings are here again so we need to be extra careful on the roads.
Looks like that was a very close shave indeed!
You aren't alone - Miles on PlanetMX5 had a similar incident and almost as much luck.
Edited to add: DOH! Helen beat me to it!
What tyres do you have, what condition are they in and what pressures are you using? Also, when did it last have a full alignment?
You aren't alone - Miles on PlanetMX5 had a similar incident and almost as much luck.
Edited to add: DOH! Helen beat me to it!
What tyres do you have, what condition are they in and what pressures are you using? Also, when did it last have a full alignment?
Edited by MX-5 Lazza on Thursday 2nd October 19:38
It really was that close! First of all I thought the lampost was going to connect with me, then I thought it would take the front off!
You can see where the cone was that I wiped out
The tyres are Toyo Proxes T1R's ( under half worn, but plenty left in them....) Not quite sure what pressure they are running though. If anything they are a little under pressure, particularly the rear.. Not much mind, but noticeable to the eye.....
As for alignment, I am unsure when, if ever, it has been done. One of those jobs I keep meaning to get round to..........
Thoughts on tyres etc? I was under the impression they were a reasonable wet weather performer....
You can see where the cone was that I wiped out
The tyres are Toyo Proxes T1R's ( under half worn, but plenty left in them....) Not quite sure what pressure they are running though. If anything they are a little under pressure, particularly the rear.. Not much mind, but noticeable to the eye.....
As for alignment, I am unsure when, if ever, it has been done. One of those jobs I keep meaning to get round to..........
Thoughts on tyres etc? I was under the impression they were a reasonable wet weather performer....
The tyres should be fine as long as they aren't too old. Toyo T1R/S tend to age relatively quickly.
I think it's probably more down to the alignment than tyres. If it hasn't been done before (to your knowledge) then there is a very good chance that it will be out by a fair bit. I get mine done fairly regularly and it always moves out of tolerance every time.
I think it's probably more down to the alignment than tyres. If it hasn't been done before (to your knowledge) then there is a very good chance that it will be out by a fair bit. I get mine done fairly regularly and it always moves out of tolerance every time.
hmm, maybe I'll book it in then.
Generally its very well behaved, very progressive, and easy to catch. This time however, well, it let go very quickly and didn't really respond to any input. Full opposite lock was enough to arrest the rotation, but it showed no signs of coming back!
Having said that, I managed to scrub off enough speed to stop where I did... luck or driver input i'm not sure. I err on the 80% in favour of luck
Generally its very well behaved, very progressive, and easy to catch. This time however, well, it let go very quickly and didn't really respond to any input. Full opposite lock was enough to arrest the rotation, but it showed no signs of coming back!
Having said that, I managed to scrub off enough speed to stop where I did... luck or driver input i'm not sure. I err on the 80% in favour of luck
Wow, that sounds like a very hairy experience. Glad you came out of it unscathed.
The MX-5 is very sensitive to alignment and it will amaze you how differently the car drives once it has been properley laser aligned. Tony at WIM is a legend in these circles and he has worked on my car 3 times in the past 2 years. I've always said deferring proper laser alignment is a false economy as one may write the car off 'waiting'
If you frequent the other MX-5 forums these threads come up quite often. 9 times out of 10 poor alignment is the culprit.
Glad you're ok.
The MX-5 is very sensitive to alignment and it will amaze you how differently the car drives once it has been properley laser aligned. Tony at WIM is a legend in these circles and he has worked on my car 3 times in the past 2 years. I've always said deferring proper laser alignment is a false economy as one may write the car off 'waiting'
If you frequent the other MX-5 forums these threads come up quite often. 9 times out of 10 poor alignment is the culprit.
Glad you're ok.
2 things to be aware of.
1: Skids are caused by one or either of 3 things. Excessive steering, excessive braking or excessive throttle. (not being confrontational there, just stating. One of my bug bears is some peoples insistence that 'it just happened'. Again, not saying that is you.)
2: Alignments move. Through the MX5 OC I'm currently popping into WIM every 2 months to have my alignment checked to see how much it changes and it's quite surprising. Mine was quite 'out' initially so the first 2 month check was not unsurprising to see some movement, but there has been movement since then as well.
The car was totally transformed after the initial change to OEM settings. I highly highly recommend getting it done.
1: Skids are caused by one or either of 3 things. Excessive steering, excessive braking or excessive throttle. (not being confrontational there, just stating. One of my bug bears is some peoples insistence that 'it just happened'. Again, not saying that is you.)
2: Alignments move. Through the MX5 OC I'm currently popping into WIM every 2 months to have my alignment checked to see how much it changes and it's quite surprising. Mine was quite 'out' initially so the first 2 month check was not unsurprising to see some movement, but there has been movement since then as well.
The car was totally transformed after the initial change to OEM settings. I highly highly recommend getting it done.
batfink79 said:
What am I looking at for a four wheel alignment?
If you can get to WIM get Tony to dial in 'stock' settings to start with. Then drive the car for a period and make adjustments to suit your driving style. I had mine set to stock, then a 'fast road' set up and now back to stock. The tell tale sign that alignment is out is if the car fishtails on stock power in a straight line.Some MX-5 owners travel 100's of miles to visit WIM, he really is that good.
Red Firecracker said:
1: Skids are caused by one or either of 3 things. Excessive steering, excessive braking or excessive throttle. (not being confrontational there, just stating. One of my bug bears is some peoples insistence that 'it just happened'. Again, not saying that is you.)
100% correct. A stationary car won't skid! If the car skids you've gone beyond one of the limits. However, if the tyres are crap, the road surface has a problem (ice, diesel etc) or the alignment is out then those limits will be drastically reduced. Toe out at the rear for example makes oversteer very hard to avoid and almost impossible to recover. I wouldn't be surprised if Finks has a bit of rear toe-out...I was giving a little gas on the corner... and I'll be the first to fess up to that... The thing that really caught me was how quick it let go, and how little I could do to catch it. Having played with it quite a lot in the wet and always felt in control, this time was completely different. Higher speeds involved being one component, possible complacency and over reliance on my perception of my driving skills undoubtedly being another! 
There are a few things I would like looking at TBH, bushes etc as it is a 1990 car. and a four wheel alignment clearly , Rear toe in/rear toe out.... I would not know, but this was a case of freshly laundered trollies straight back in the laundry basket!
Scary how quick a morning drive to work can turn into an entirely different scenario, and also a little worrying that none of the cars behind pulled in to check if all was ok.....
Regards
Finkers
There are a few things I would like looking at TBH, bushes etc as it is a 1990 car. and a four wheel alignment clearly , Rear toe in/rear toe out.... I would not know, but this was a case of freshly laundered trollies straight back in the laundry basket!
Scary how quick a morning drive to work can turn into an entirely different scenario, and also a little worrying that none of the cars behind pulled in to check if all was ok.....
Regards
Finkers
Yup I had a moment a few days ago, but wasnt quite as fortunate...
Roundabout, quiet road, throttle, steering, too much of both me thinks, and im facing the wrong way having clouted a kerb & tapped a bollard. Probably now a lot of things not in line any longer, hard to tell with space saver on
Never had this trouble before, but then i did put the crap tires on the back, plenty tread, no grip = new alloys and lesson learned.
Roundabout, quiet road, throttle, steering, too much of both me thinks, and im facing the wrong way having clouted a kerb & tapped a bollard. Probably now a lot of things not in line any longer, hard to tell with space saver on
Never had this trouble before, but then i did put the crap tires on the back, plenty tread, no grip = new alloys and lesson learned.
GravelBen said:
D_G said:
It only take a bit of diesel on the road too to help you off...
If its usually fine then something unusually slippery on the road may be a significant factor.MX-5 Lazza said:
GravelBen said:
D_G said:
It only take a bit of diesel on the road too to help you off...
If its usually fine then something unusually slippery on the road may be a significant factor.I think tbh the reason there was only one car facing the wrong way lies entirely with my own over ambitious analysis of my driving ability....... However, I don't believe that to be the only cause (which driver ever does), and I do feel that there may be mileage in having the car given the once over by those in the know.
As already mentioned, I had been looking forward to the colder months and the fun/challenges it offered... The reality seems to be that a summer of complacency came very close to catching me out!
Glad Im not the only one. I must confess I was surprised as to how quickly these go sideways, having said that though my last car was a 4WD so I think that I may be driving it like a 4WD and not a RWD...big difference in style. Had a few moments, some meant for fun and some when not really expecing it, one twitch and then bang slip sliding.
Glad no damage caused, and like you will be getting my alignment checked out just in case.
Glad no damage caused, and like you will be getting my alignment checked out just in case.
If the alignment is right and you have good matching tyres all round it shouldn't slide out of control too quickly to catch.
On the OC forum (I think) a while ago there was a guy on the who was slating the handling on MX-5s because he'd bought one based on all the reviews he'd read about great handling but he found that it was impossible to slide it without completely losing it. He also found that bumpy roads mean the car tried to steer itself, especially in the wet. We kept telling him to get the alignment checked but he kept saying it was fine and that the cars were rubbish. Eventually, after a number of months, he did get it aligned and was amazed at what a massive difference it made to the handling. He could still slide it if he wanted but could control it easily and it was much more predictable over bumps and in the wet.
Honestly, it's the number one biggest improvement you can make to the car, better even than replacing the suspension of fitting a turbo/supercharger. Even driver train in g won't help if the car doesn't handle predictably.
On the OC forum (I think) a while ago there was a guy on the who was slating the handling on MX-5s because he'd bought one based on all the reviews he'd read about great handling but he found that it was impossible to slide it without completely losing it. He also found that bumpy roads mean the car tried to steer itself, especially in the wet. We kept telling him to get the alignment checked but he kept saying it was fine and that the cars were rubbish. Eventually, after a number of months, he did get it aligned and was amazed at what a massive difference it made to the handling. He could still slide it if he wanted but could control it easily and it was much more predictable over bumps and in the wet.
Honestly, it's the number one biggest improvement you can make to the car, better even than replacing the suspension of fitting a turbo/supercharger. Even driver train in g won't help if the car doesn't handle predictably.
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