Can a supercharged Mk2.5 be refined?

[hornetrider]

As title really... could a Mk2.5 car with a S/C ever be described as refined? What type of exhausts/induction (noise!) do they have? I realise that will differ from car to car, but are performance exhausts with the associated noise they produce be required for breathing?

My R-Limited with induction/decat/dual exit is rather loud and raw - I have loved this car for over 2 years but now I'm looking to get a car which is more refined but still has exquisite handling and front engine/rwd.

My shortlist is either a 944 or a 968 as I DO want to realise my ambition of owning a Porsche. However with 996 prices as they are I might consider one in a couple of years, but ideally I'm looking to change in the next few months.

My daily commute is 20 miles each way - 18 of which is motorway. I'm getting itchy feet and considering my options - a 968 is favourite at the moment, or a very well sorted 944. However, its worth posing the question of whether a S/C 2.5 would fill my requirements... I've ruled out an S2000 or any others btw - it's either a Porsche or a 2.5.

[Munter]

LAZZA this man wants a go in your car.....

[Fly Boy]

hornetrider said:

As title really... could a Mk2.5 car with a S/C ever be described as refined? What type of exhausts/induction (noise!) do they have? I realise that will differ from car to car, but are performance exhausts with the associated noise they produce be required for breathing?

My R-Limited with induction/decat/dual exit is rather loud and raw - I have loved this car for over 2 years but now I'm looking to get a car which is more refined but still has exquisite handling and front engine/rwd.

My shortlist is either a 944 or a 968 as I DO want to realise my ambition of owning a Porsche. However with 996 prices as they are I might consider one in a couple of years, but ideally I'm looking to change in the next few months.

My daily commute is 20 miles each way - 18 of which is motorway. I'm getting itchy feet and considering my options - a 968 is favourite at the moment, or a very well sorted 944. However, its worth posing the question of whether a S/C 2.5 would fill my requirements... I've ruled out an S2000 or any others btw - it's either a Porsche or a 2.5.

H
My old mk2 sc(pre mk2.5)was almost as refined as standard. No snags.
Used to get a nice "starwars" Tie fighter whine from the Eaton 45 blower
If I was doing it again I'd go for a M62 on the cold side- less volume between the blower & chambers = quicker throttle response.
Also had a sport back box, twin outlets- noise with the sc was a lot less than NA with an induction kit.
Overall a great sleeper- I miss the wolf in sheeps clothing effect.

FB

[Matt Cyclone]

A little cheeky I know (well, maybe alot) but I have a Mk 2.5 for sale which would be an ideal donor - I know cause I was looking into FI for the car earlier this year.

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/637256.htm

As its a sports model then the 6 speed box and LSD would be a real bonus.

[/end of shameless plug!]

[redgriff500]

They are just as refined with a std exhaust the noise level is pretty much the same.

If you listen you can hear the SC whine but unless you overspin (smaller nose pully etc)and have a different air filter it isn't obtrusive IMO.

The Porsches are totally different cars they feel much heavier and are superb GT cars but not really 'sports cars' like the MX5, going for a blast - MX5 want to get to France quickly Porsche.

I've had a 944 and 944T (300bhp) and still have a MX5 SC but want a 968 but to compliment rather than replace my MX5.

[Herman Toothrot]

Before I got my MR2 as a runabout to run along side my turbo Eunos I was thinking of a mk2 mx5 as they are so much more refined as standard over the mk1, however too slow and so it'd need a bit of forced induction. I think if you kept power goals low i.e. 190bhp ish then yes you could have a very quiet refined forced induction mk2.

My mk1 is as unrefined as it gets.

[MX-5 Lazza]

Munter said:

LAZZA this man wants a go in your car.....

My car isn't refined. I've de-refined it
It drives nicely and cruises on the motorway very easily but as I've replaced the cat, mid-pipe & back-box it's LOUD, especially as the mid-pipe doesn't have a resonator so there is a rasp to it from about 3krpm.
I do know a few people with SC Mk2.5s and stock exhausts though and they are quiet & refined, pretty much a stock car with better performance. The exhaust isn't really a bottle-neck until you start pushing for BIG power (which is why I've replaced mine )

Fly Boy said:

If I was doing it again I'd go for a M62 on the cold side- less volume between the blower & chambers = quicker throttle response.

With the P5 dual-throttle mod you get the full power of the hot-side kit with stock throttled volume and idle. My car idles perfectly and has very instant throttle response - actually a bit better than stock as the throttled air is pressurised

[hornetrider]

So, plenty of people running stock exhausts with SCs then, interesting. I guess if you're the type to be chasing extra bhp then the exhaust is the first thing to go, but if you're happy with say, 180bhp then there's no need to upgrade it...

I've never driven a 2.5 so I may take a trip to Mazda and take one out on an extended drive... then imagine it with 40 extra horses...

The temptation for a 968 may still prove too great, but until I've driven them back to back 2.5 then who's to know which will fit me best.

Cheers for responses.

[redgriff500]

Just to throw in an alternative...

Have you seen how cheap Boxsters are now ?

From £6,500

IE way less than 968's and if something goes wrong there are way more parts available.

Edited by redgriff500 on Wednesday 13th August 16:02

[MX-5 Lazza]

Exhaust is less of an issue with SC than it is with TC. With a TC you need as free flowing exhaust as you can get to help the turbo spool up quickly. This isn't an issue with an SC.
The stock exhaust is easily capable of well over 200bhp on an SC '5. I used to have 215bhp on the stock exhaust with the only bottle-neck being the stock fuel injectors. I'm sure if I had a stock exhaust now it wouldn't affect the power output.
I replaced the mid-pipe because the stock one fell apart. I replaced the cat because the stock one blocked up after running too rich for too long (JR PowerCard). I replaced the back box because I like the look of the RB Duals. I chose to replace them with bigger pipes because I like a bit of noise and because I might go for "stupid" power in the future

[hornetrider]

redgriff500 said:

Just to throw in an alternative...

Have you seen how cheap Boxsters are now ?

From £6,500

IE way less than 968's and if something goes wrong there are way more parts available.

Edited by redgriff500 on Wednesday 13th August 16:02

Yeah not overly keen on early Boxsters - much prefer the 987. The 968 I see as more of an enthusiasts car so would rather go down that route.

[Fly Boy]

MX-5 Lazza said:

Fly Boy said:

If I was doing it again I'd go for a M62 on the cold side- less volume between the blower & chambers = quicker throttle response.

With the P5 dual-throttle mod you get the full power of the hot-side kit with stock throttled volume and idle. My car idles perfectly and has very instant throttle response - actually a bit better than stock as the throttled air is pressurised

Didn't have a problem with mine until I increased the boost & fitted the Pace air/water intercooler which increased the volume a bit too much- problem solved eventually.
But the cold side mount has minimum volume, you need to drive one to believe the response.

[redgriff500]

Mine is Coldside (but an M45)

TBH it is better than the JRSC but I think the response gets overhyped...

the std set up is pretty good, this just feels like someone has tightened the throttle cable...

Admitedly the extra bhp is nice too.

[MX-5 Lazza]

I've driven a cold-side M45 which had impressive throttle response but no better than mine even though I have a massive TDR air/air intercooler. You need to try it to believe it. Fitting the dual-throttle (big throttle on back of sc and stock throttle in stock position) has transformed the way the car drives.

[Munter]

hornetrider said:

redgriff500 said:

Just to throw in an alternative...

Have you seen how cheap Boxsters are now ?

From £6,500

IE way less than 968's and if something goes wrong there are way more parts available.

Edited by redgriff500 on Wednesday 13th August 16:02

Yeah not overly keen on early Boxsters - much prefer the 987. The 968 I see as more of an enthusiasts car so would rather go down that route.

Add in that Boxster engines have a nasty habit of going "pop" in a non fixable way. Not all of them I accept. But enough to make me stay clear.

[Herman Toothrot]

Munter said:

hornetrider said:

redgriff500 said:

Just to throw in an alternative...

Have you seen how cheap Boxsters are now ?

From £6,500

IE way less than 968's and if something goes wrong there are way more parts available.

Edited by redgriff500 on Wednesday 13th August 16:02

Yeah not overly keen on early Boxsters - much prefer the 987. The 968 I see as more of an enthusiasts car so would rather go down that route.

Add in that Boxster engines have a nasty habit of going "pop" in a non fixable way. Not all of them I accept. But enough to make me stay clear.

Yes, very true the Porsche clubs factor in warantee on cost of ownership and basically laugh and point at anyone who thinks they can afford a boxster but don't buy a warantee. The engines are not easily sourced 2nd hand so fetch around £3K if you can find one. Only other options are write the car off and break it or buy a new engine from Porsche for around £7K i.e. more than old Boxsters cost.

I looked into a Boxster as a trackday car to strip out as I thought it had all the right ingredients being :-

Reliability
Power
Great Chassis
Great Brakes

Sadly during my research I found reliability needed to be crossed off and if a track car needs to be something its reliable.

Edited by Herman Toothrot on Thursday 14th August 10:34

[Greg_D]

i'm not sure if you are dead set on a SC, but my 2.5 turbo is reliable, fairly quiet (the fundamental difference is a SC makes the exhaust louder and a turbo makes little difference - ie with identical exhaust and intake a turbo would be significantly quieter) and fapping quick (240odd hp, 220torque)and as refined as it came out of the factory

Greg

[MX-5 Lazza]

The point I was trying to make is that an SC car doesn't need any sort of exhaust upgrade whereas a turbo does benefit from a freer flowing exhaust.