A "what car" thread I'm afraid.
Discussion
Well I thought I'd skip the step where I go into General Gassing and say "I'm looking for a small sports car/people carrier/flatbed truck/4 seater" to be presented with the marvellous MX 5 as the answer to my prayers.
I've put this up at MX5nutz as well, so thanks if anyone answered it there.
Hello, all. I'm in need of some advice. In a couple of months I'm ging to need to buy a car. Most likely an MX 5 that WILL end up with FI. So I have a few options as far as I can make out.
Turbo or SC?
Buy one done or do it myself?
So, first what I'm after:
I'm looking at a budget of either £3500 and a bit to buy one already done, or buying a donor for less than £1500 and doing it myself.
I'd like it to have between 175 and 200 BHP
It'll be my only car, so I'd like (reasonable) economy when I'm not booting it.
I do like a revvy engine for the track. My previous car is a fireblade-engined Fisher Fury (anyone want to buy it! whistle.gif ) Is the thing about the 1.6 being revvier true or a myth? Does this revvy nature transfer through when it's FIed? Of course I'd be after a pre-1994 1.6.
I think I'd be better off with the end vehicle being a pre-94 1.6 with a turbo on it. Am I right in thinking that there's more potential for further power if needs be and at low revs it's maybe not shovelling as much air/fuel as a supercharger? I also like the idea of a "shove" half way up the rev range like on my old bikes.
Though if anyone wants to advise otherwise, please do so.
About already done/do myself - I'm a pretty good mechanic when it comes to nuts and bolts, but I'm a bit lost in the world of setting up FI/aftermarket ECU's etc.
Also I'm in Italy, so I don't want to farm out too much work to other people.
Thanks in advance, Dan
I've put this up at MX5nutz as well, so thanks if anyone answered it there.
Hello, all. I'm in need of some advice. In a couple of months I'm ging to need to buy a car. Most likely an MX 5 that WILL end up with FI. So I have a few options as far as I can make out.
Turbo or SC?
Buy one done or do it myself?
So, first what I'm after:
I'm looking at a budget of either £3500 and a bit to buy one already done, or buying a donor for less than £1500 and doing it myself.
I'd like it to have between 175 and 200 BHP
It'll be my only car, so I'd like (reasonable) economy when I'm not booting it.
I do like a revvy engine for the track. My previous car is a fireblade-engined Fisher Fury (anyone want to buy it! whistle.gif ) Is the thing about the 1.6 being revvier true or a myth? Does this revvy nature transfer through when it's FIed? Of course I'd be after a pre-1994 1.6.
I think I'd be better off with the end vehicle being a pre-94 1.6 with a turbo on it. Am I right in thinking that there's more potential for further power if needs be and at low revs it's maybe not shovelling as much air/fuel as a supercharger? I also like the idea of a "shove" half way up the rev range like on my old bikes.
Though if anyone wants to advise otherwise, please do so.
About already done/do myself - I'm a pretty good mechanic when it comes to nuts and bolts, but I'm a bit lost in the world of setting up FI/aftermarket ECU's etc.
Also I'm in Italy, so I don't want to farm out too much work to other people.
Thanks in advance, Dan
Me. If I only wanted to get to 200bhp I'd be looking at superchargers to avoid any lag. If I knew I'd want more I'd then start looking at Turbos.
If your going for a 1.6 get one early enough that it doesn't have to have a CAT. If it's a 1.8 you'll have to have a CAT anyway (due to them being newer) for the MOT.
Get on www.flyinmiata.com for a look at their turbo kits. BEGI do one as well but I believe most come with a pre-setup ECU so no need to be playing with it until you know how/you want to.
This is something I keep looking at but never have the cash.....
If your going for a 1.6 get one early enough that it doesn't have to have a CAT. If it's a 1.8 you'll have to have a CAT anyway (due to them being newer) for the MOT.
Get on www.flyinmiata.com for a look at their turbo kits. BEGI do one as well but I believe most come with a pre-setup ECU so no need to be playing with it until you know how/you want to.
This is something I keep looking at but never have the cash.....
This is a very big topic which can attract some very wide-ranging views & opinions.
So here's mine
Think very hard about where you think you will want the car to end up rather than what you want right now. If you think you will never want more than 200bhp then a 1.6 with TC or SC will be ok though 200bhp is still a high target. If you want more than that they you are better off starting with a 1.8.
The 1.6 has a few weak points:
- Clutch - 1.6 owners fit the bigger 1.8 clutch & flywheel.
- Brakes - 1.6 owners fit the bigger 1.8 discs & calliper brackets.
- Dif - not sure of the details but 1.8 dif is generally considered to be stronger.
probably others too...
With a 1.8 200bhp is much easier to achieve with either TC or SC and the difference between them is smaller as the MP62 SC is available which produces much more power than the M45 (or JRSC).
The base MP62 on a 1.8 (which I know quite well) will give about 180bhp and can give 200bhp with a few tweaks. Any more than that and you will need some form of charge-cooling. An intercooler is the best/most reliable method. The only real limit to how far you can go with this setup is the strength of the engine. The generally accepted upper limit is somewhere between 250-270bhp. Basically once you get over 250bhp you had better be 100% sure your fuel/timing is spot on.
I believe pretty much the same applies to the FM turbo. I wouldn't bother using one of the cheap set-ups if you are planning bigger power in the future and track use.
How do they compare? Well that is a difficult one to answer on a forum. It's much better to get rides in a few cars before deciding. Mine is SC but believe me, there is no lack of "punch in the back" when I accelerate! Back when my car had 215bhp I took someone out for a demo drive after he'd been out in an FM2 turbo car with 250bhp and he said mine felt a touch slower on the straight as you'd expect but much quicker through the bends as the power is there instantly.
Modern, well designed and well implemented turbos like FM don't suffer from much lag but it will still be present compared to the instant power of a SC. On a track lag is probably less of a problem as you keep the turbo spinning all the time.
As for buying one that's already done against doing one yourself, well that's a personal/financial decision. I got mine done myself for no real good reason other than that I had the cash and I wanted it to be completely mine. Also it was one of the first MP62 Mk2.5s in this country. Either way, it would be good to know how the ecu tuning is done. If I'd bought one already done I certainly wouldn't simply trust that it was perfectly tuned!
I'm trying not to bias my views towards the SC but obviously that's a bit difficult as that's what I have so that's what I know most about. See here for details
So here's mine
Think very hard about where you think you will want the car to end up rather than what you want right now. If you think you will never want more than 200bhp then a 1.6 with TC or SC will be ok though 200bhp is still a high target. If you want more than that they you are better off starting with a 1.8.
The 1.6 has a few weak points:
- Clutch - 1.6 owners fit the bigger 1.8 clutch & flywheel.
- Brakes - 1.6 owners fit the bigger 1.8 discs & calliper brackets.
- Dif - not sure of the details but 1.8 dif is generally considered to be stronger.
probably others too...
With a 1.8 200bhp is much easier to achieve with either TC or SC and the difference between them is smaller as the MP62 SC is available which produces much more power than the M45 (or JRSC).
The base MP62 on a 1.8 (which I know quite well) will give about 180bhp and can give 200bhp with a few tweaks. Any more than that and you will need some form of charge-cooling. An intercooler is the best/most reliable method. The only real limit to how far you can go with this setup is the strength of the engine. The generally accepted upper limit is somewhere between 250-270bhp. Basically once you get over 250bhp you had better be 100% sure your fuel/timing is spot on.
I believe pretty much the same applies to the FM turbo. I wouldn't bother using one of the cheap set-ups if you are planning bigger power in the future and track use.
How do they compare? Well that is a difficult one to answer on a forum. It's much better to get rides in a few cars before deciding. Mine is SC but believe me, there is no lack of "punch in the back" when I accelerate! Back when my car had 215bhp I took someone out for a demo drive after he'd been out in an FM2 turbo car with 250bhp and he said mine felt a touch slower on the straight as you'd expect but much quicker through the bends as the power is there instantly.
Modern, well designed and well implemented turbos like FM don't suffer from much lag but it will still be present compared to the instant power of a SC. On a track lag is probably less of a problem as you keep the turbo spinning all the time.
As for buying one that's already done against doing one yourself, well that's a personal/financial decision. I got mine done myself for no real good reason other than that I had the cash and I wanted it to be completely mine. Also it was one of the first MP62 Mk2.5s in this country. Either way, it would be good to know how the ecu tuning is done. If I'd bought one already done I certainly wouldn't simply trust that it was perfectly tuned!
I'm trying not to bias my views towards the SC but obviously that's a bit difficult as that's what I have so that's what I know most about. See here for details
If DIYing, look for decent base car. The Mk2 VS-spec would be a good start as it has the 1.8 engine and brakes, 6-speed box and LSD but you won't get one for £1500. In fact, you'll struggle to get a decent Mk1 1.8 for that money.
I personally wouldn't even bother with a 1.6 but that's just my personal prejudice! ;-)
Shame you're in Italy 'cause I always fancied a bike engined Fury.
I personally wouldn't even bother with a 1.6 but that's just my personal prejudice! ;-)
Shame you're in Italy 'cause I always fancied a bike engined Fury.
kevham said:
If DIYing, look for decent base car. The Mk2 VS-spec would be a good start as it has the 1.8 engine and brakes, 6-speed box and LSD but you won't get one for £1500. In fact, you'll struggle to get a decent Mk1 1.8 for that money.
I personally wouldn't even bother with a 1.6 but that's just my personal prejudice! ;-)
Shame you're in Italy 'cause I always fancied a bike engined Fury.
The car's not! It's in my dad's garage near nottingham/Doncaster. It's in the PH classifieds if you want a look. I think it's against the rules to post a direct link, but it's under racing cars in the motorsport section. The blue one (pic in my profile)I personally wouldn't even bother with a 1.6 but that's just my personal prejudice! ;-)
Shame you're in Italy 'cause I always fancied a bike engined Fury.
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