2 questions about the 5, help appreciated
Discussion
afternoon all.
dont often venture in here, but do every now and then and have a good nose about for an hour 2 then forget all about it for a month or so.
have been getting a hankering for a tracck project for a while now, and after considering my current car for it, have decided its best that i get shot of that and get a commuter / tow car and a fixer upper for the track.
first question is, where is the best place to find 5's that need a bit of tlc etc, im thinking in need of a service / light body work etc for sub £1k. doesnt have to be a looker or looked after meticulasouly (prefferably not in actual fact... the cheaper the better without it needing a full groung up rebuild)
second question is about power. i know the standard engines in the mk1 arent all that (and the essence of the car isnt about pure speed either) but i would naturally be looking at more get up and go in the future once the cchassis / brakes are up to the job. i would probably go for an engine conversion over turbo'ing or charging the OE lump. have seen the v8 conversions and have heard about rx7 wankel engines being fitted. are there any other conversions that can be considered without too much agro (im competent with a set of spanners and so on, but dont really want to be lopping bits from the bulk head etc) was thinking maybe a 200sx engine, plenty of oomph to start with and tuneable for little money to keep it on the pace as it were?
thanks in advance and look forward to hearing your suggestions
dont often venture in here, but do every now and then and have a good nose about for an hour 2 then forget all about it for a month or so.
have been getting a hankering for a tracck project for a while now, and after considering my current car for it, have decided its best that i get shot of that and get a commuter / tow car and a fixer upper for the track.
first question is, where is the best place to find 5's that need a bit of tlc etc, im thinking in need of a service / light body work etc for sub £1k. doesnt have to be a looker or looked after meticulasouly (prefferably not in actual fact... the cheaper the better without it needing a full groung up rebuild)
second question is about power. i know the standard engines in the mk1 arent all that (and the essence of the car isnt about pure speed either) but i would naturally be looking at more get up and go in the future once the cchassis / brakes are up to the job. i would probably go for an engine conversion over turbo'ing or charging the OE lump. have seen the v8 conversions and have heard about rx7 wankel engines being fitted. are there any other conversions that can be considered without too much agro (im competent with a set of spanners and so on, but dont really want to be lopping bits from the bulk head etc) was thinking maybe a 200sx engine, plenty of oomph to start with and tuneable for little money to keep it on the pace as it were?
thanks in advance and look forward to hearing your suggestions
I'm one of the local meet that Helen (Planet Claire) mentioned. We recently bought a (supposed) junker from eBay for £750. The owner hadn't done any servicing or cleaning with the car for a couple of years so was selling it as a runner that would probably be stripped for spares.
However, we found it drove fine and seemed solid so we took a chance on it. After giving it a damn good clean and removing all the interior (carpets etc.) we found that it was actually very solid with no rust at all except in the sill where it has a big scrape which we will get fixed soon - it passed the MOT like it though so it's not a big problem.
We gave it a full service replacing the engine, gearbox & dif oils, radiator & coolant, cambelt + tensioners, water-pump, camshaft & crank oil-seals and cam-cover gasket. There is plenty of life left in the brake pads so we've left them for now.
We took it on it's first outing a couple of weekends ago and found that it handled very sweetly. Yes pretty much everything else passed us down the main straight but we could keep up with absolutely everything around the twisties despite the shocking 185/65/14 rubber (some unknown brand).
We have plans to fit Absolutely GAZ coilovers, bucket seats (probably S1 Elise), 15" wheels with Toyo T1R tyres. We'll upgrade the brakes with discs & calliper mounts from a 1.8 and fit Axxis Ultimate pads all round. That's where we'll leave it until we all have more track experience, then we'll look at adding a bit more power and track-day tyres.
As for adding power, I expect we'll do it with a supercharger as that's the most cost effective method and adds just enough power for a track car.
Don't rule out forced induction on the MX-5 engine. It's based on a turbo 323 engine so it responds to it really well. You can get to about 250bhp before you need to worry about breaking the engine and a perfectly tuned 270bhp is still safe.
My personal opinion is that supercharging suits a track car better than turbo but each to their own. It's a lot easier and probably a lot cheaper than an engine swap, especially as the majority of engines that commonly get fitted don't have any more power than a FI MX-5 engine anyway.
My own car is already heavily modified with an inter-cooled supercharger currently putting out 226bhp but will be about 240bhp once I get the fuelling sorted out. It has Performance 5 PureDrive shocks & springs and FM ARBs (which I'll be swapping for stock soon). I have a set of 15" wheels for track use as 195/50/15 tyres give the best combination of track-ability and cheapest tyres. I'll probably be getting some AO48s for these wheels at some point as the F1s on there at the moment melt on track (though they are staying on my 17" road wheels as they are about the best you can get for an MX-5 on the road).
Hope that helps.
However, we found it drove fine and seemed solid so we took a chance on it. After giving it a damn good clean and removing all the interior (carpets etc.) we found that it was actually very solid with no rust at all except in the sill where it has a big scrape which we will get fixed soon - it passed the MOT like it though so it's not a big problem.
We gave it a full service replacing the engine, gearbox & dif oils, radiator & coolant, cambelt + tensioners, water-pump, camshaft & crank oil-seals and cam-cover gasket. There is plenty of life left in the brake pads so we've left them for now.
We took it on it's first outing a couple of weekends ago and found that it handled very sweetly. Yes pretty much everything else passed us down the main straight but we could keep up with absolutely everything around the twisties despite the shocking 185/65/14 rubber (some unknown brand).
We have plans to fit Absolutely GAZ coilovers, bucket seats (probably S1 Elise), 15" wheels with Toyo T1R tyres. We'll upgrade the brakes with discs & calliper mounts from a 1.8 and fit Axxis Ultimate pads all round. That's where we'll leave it until we all have more track experience, then we'll look at adding a bit more power and track-day tyres.
As for adding power, I expect we'll do it with a supercharger as that's the most cost effective method and adds just enough power for a track car.
Don't rule out forced induction on the MX-5 engine. It's based on a turbo 323 engine so it responds to it really well. You can get to about 250bhp before you need to worry about breaking the engine and a perfectly tuned 270bhp is still safe.
My personal opinion is that supercharging suits a track car better than turbo but each to their own. It's a lot easier and probably a lot cheaper than an engine swap, especially as the majority of engines that commonly get fitted don't have any more power than a FI MX-5 engine anyway.
My own car is already heavily modified with an inter-cooled supercharger currently putting out 226bhp but will be about 240bhp once I get the fuelling sorted out. It has Performance 5 PureDrive shocks & springs and FM ARBs (which I'll be swapping for stock soon). I have a set of 15" wheels for track use as 195/50/15 tyres give the best combination of track-ability and cheapest tyres. I'll probably be getting some AO48s for these wheels at some point as the F1s on there at the moment melt on track (though they are staying on my 17" road wheels as they are about the best you can get for an MX-5 on the road).
Hope that helps.
keep a watchfull eye in the local papers too..i bought my 80k miler mk1 1.8 with mot and tax and fsh for £900...it aint the best but as a starting point i think its hard to beat..
as for performance, i think turbo or supercharge conversions on the existing engine are the way to go??...tho im sure there are a few yank specialists who drop ridiculously big v8s into the wee car....now THATS gotta be fun....
as for performance, i think turbo or supercharge conversions on the existing engine are the way to go??...tho im sure there are a few yank specialists who drop ridiculously big v8s into the wee car....now THATS gotta be fun....
biggbn said:
...tho im sure there are a few yank specialists who drop ridiculously big v8s into the wee car....now THATS gotta be fun....
Fun until you get to a corner. Most big V8s are too heavy and have to be mounted too high. There are some good engines that work well, Lexus LS1 for example and there has been at least one car with a Cosworth conversion but these engines aren't cheap and they take a lot of thought and work to make them fit. I have seen rotary engines in '5s but they aren't really very popular and aren't really a practical proposition on a track car. Bizarely, one of the problems is a lack of weight which would shift the weight balance of the car and ruin the delicate neutral balance!A JRSC on a 1.6 will give you 160bhp for around £2k and with another £500-£1k spent you can get it to £180-190 which is plenty on the early 1.6 as they weight around 900Kg.
With a turbo, entry level (£1.5-2k) is again around 160-170bhp but entry level means lag and little benefit at low revs - to get that you need to spend another £500-1k on exhaust & downpipe upgrades before you consider upping the boost to get more power by which time you might as well have gone for a more expensive package in the first place.
I prefer SC on track as the power is easier to modulate in the corners as the boost is always there. It might not have the ultimate power/torque of an equivalent costing turbo but it has the benefit of increased power at all revs and all throttle openings which helps to close the gap. On a twisty road I can easily keep up with a turbo car with an extra 50bhp because the power is always there as soon as I touch the throttle so I can use it earlier on the exit of a corner.
MX-5 Lazza said:
biggbn said:
...tho im sure there are a few yank specialists who drop ridiculously big v8s into the wee car....now THATS gotta be fun....
Fun until you get to a corner. Most big V8s are too heavy and have to be mounted too high. There are some good engines that work well, Lexus LS1 for example and there has been at least one car with a Cosworth conversion but these engines aren't cheap and they take a lot of thought and work to make them fit. I have seen rotary engines in '5s but they aren't really very popular and aren't really a practical proposition on a track car. Bizarely, one of the problems is a lack of weight which would shift the weight balance of the car and ruin the delicate neutral balance!The LS1 is a Chev V8, the Lexus 4.0 V8 is the 1UZ-FE. Both are surprisngly light for their size, but AFAIK still move the COG of an MX5 far enough forwards and up to cause some 'handling issues'.
Rotary MX5s aren't that unusual (much more common than V8s for example), but the rotary engines are actually remarkably heavy for their size, though being small they don't have as much of an effect on weight distribution as a V8 would. I wouldn't have one primarily for reliability reasons, and the fact that they sound like chainsaws.
Agreed that FI on the original engine is the simplest, most effective way to increase power, though I still like the idea of a Mazda KL-ZE V6 transplant
Gassing Station | Mazda MX5/Roadster/Miata | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff