My first possible foray in RWD
Discussion
Hi all, never posted in the Mazda forum before but I suspect this is the best place for my query.
At the moment I drive an Integra Type R, but I have the RWD itch.
I have driven an MX5 before, a Mk2, but wasnt that keen, it was just dog slow (and it was a 1.8).
However, I am thinking I could sell my teg and get one.
The idea is to pick up a cheap MX5 Mk1 and then turbo it.
I have some questions.
Would this be do-able for under £7k ?
What is the best, supercharging or turbocharging?
What is the best engine to get for turbo treatment, the 1.6 or 1.8 (I am thinking 1.8 for more power)?
Any other advice would be welcome.
At the moment I drive an Integra Type R, but I have the RWD itch.
I have driven an MX5 before, a Mk2, but wasnt that keen, it was just dog slow (and it was a 1.8).
However, I am thinking I could sell my teg and get one.
The idea is to pick up a cheap MX5 Mk1 and then turbo it.
I have some questions.
Would this be do-able for under £7k ?
What is the best, supercharging or turbocharging?
What is the best engine to get for turbo treatment, the 1.6 or 1.8 (I am thinking 1.8 for more power)?
Any other advice would be welcome.
Given up on the Elise then?
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I can't help myself, but there's a few who certainly. And I expect they'll be along immenently.
Good luck with it
K
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I can't help myself, but there's a few who certainly. And I expect they'll be along immenently.
Good luck with it
K
They aren't rocket-ships but I wouldn't call a 1.8 Mk2 dog slow. They need to be revved and kept on the boil to make any fast progress but you should be used to that with your 'teg 
A stock MX-5 is never going to be a fast A-B car though, unless of course A-B takes in some serious twisties in which case there is very little that it couldn't keep up with No, really! They might not have the outright grip of many more modern cars but they communicate exactly what they are doing so you feel happy going right up to and beyond the limits
Having said that, I've had mine (2001 Mk2.5) supercharged and is currently putting out something in the region of 230-240bhp. That's enough to match a Lotus Elise 111R on the road & track
With FI you have to keep in mind is the old saying:
Cheap, Reliable, Powerful. Pick 2.
Turbo's and superchargers both have their pro's and con's. Which you go for depends on personal preference, the depth of your pockets and your timescales.
If you want ultimate power then a Turbo is always going to be the way to go, especially if you want bang-for-buck.
It's possible to get turbo'd for £1500 but personally I think that's too cheap and you will lose out on power and reliability. Superchargers come in from around £2000 and are very reliable. At this level you will be limited to 5-6 psi though so that will be 170-180bhp - probably about the same as the £1500 turbo.
At the other end of the spectrum you can get a turbo or supercharger with a/a intercooler and engine-management for about £4000 and both are very impressive. The turbo will give more power and will give that turbo shove that makes it feel even more powerful but the sc will give consistent power everywhere feeling more like a bigger engine that FI.
There is also the question of which you prefer the sound of. I love the sc whine of my MP62 but others prefer the sound of a dump-valve. Again it's personal choice.
As for whether you start with a 1.6 or 1.8 - if you go SC then I'd use a 1.8 as the gains are bigger and easier and you have the choice of M45 or MP62. For a turbo however engine size makes little difference. The 1.6 is just as strong as the 1.8 and can easily handle 250bhp with some getting close to 300bhp on stock internals. Also, a heavily boosted 1.6 with 250bhp will have more torque than a 1.8 with 250bhp and torque is really where it's at for road driving.
Hope this helps. I'm sure others will come along soon and tell me I'm wrong but that's my personal advice and experience and I reserve the right to be wrong
A stock MX-5 is never going to be a fast A-B car though, unless of course A-B takes in some serious twisties in which case there is very little that it couldn't keep up with No, really! They might not have the outright grip of many more modern cars but they communicate exactly what they are doing so you feel happy going right up to and beyond the limits
Having said that, I've had mine (2001 Mk2.5) supercharged and is currently putting out something in the region of 230-240bhp. That's enough to match a Lotus Elise 111R on the road & track
With FI you have to keep in mind is the old saying:
Cheap, Reliable, Powerful. Pick 2.
Turbo's and superchargers both have their pro's and con's. Which you go for depends on personal preference, the depth of your pockets and your timescales.
If you want ultimate power then a Turbo is always going to be the way to go, especially if you want bang-for-buck.
It's possible to get turbo'd for £1500 but personally I think that's too cheap and you will lose out on power and reliability. Superchargers come in from around £2000 and are very reliable. At this level you will be limited to 5-6 psi though so that will be 170-180bhp - probably about the same as the £1500 turbo.
At the other end of the spectrum you can get a turbo or supercharger with a/a intercooler and engine-management for about £4000 and both are very impressive. The turbo will give more power and will give that turbo shove that makes it feel even more powerful but the sc will give consistent power everywhere feeling more like a bigger engine that FI.
There is also the question of which you prefer the sound of. I love the sc whine of my MP62 but others prefer the sound of a dump-valve. Again it's personal choice.
As for whether you start with a 1.6 or 1.8 - if you go SC then I'd use a 1.8 as the gains are bigger and easier and you have the choice of M45 or MP62. For a turbo however engine size makes little difference. The 1.6 is just as strong as the 1.8 and can easily handle 250bhp with some getting close to 300bhp on stock internals. Also, a heavily boosted 1.6 with 250bhp will have more torque than a 1.8 with 250bhp and torque is really where it's at for road driving.
Hope this helps. I'm sure others will come along soon and tell me I'm wrong but that's my personal advice and experience and I reserve the right to be wrong
Best not get into the turbo or supercharger debate, its a personnal preferance thing end of.
£7K yep If it was me with £7K to spend i'd do the following:-
£2700 - 1.8 Eunos (gets Torsen LSD thats better and stronger, big brakes, better fuel rail than 1.6)
£1000 - Link G3 ECU with boost control all mapped and fitted.
£2500ish - BEGI kit GT28 or GT25 depending on BHP aim
£400 - RC developments 550cc injectors
£300 - koyo alloy rad
Will be reliable and fast, to be honest my car proven puts out a minimum of 250bhp at surrey RR, I guess its about 265bhp now on high boost, as since then the maps been played with and boost increased at the top end and unless your on a dual carriageway its actually scary fast over 5000rpm, i've been finding my self lifting off or changing up 1000rpm before the redline. Remember as your turboign an n/a car the power curve remains n/a like i.e. keeps on building to the redline and loves to rev.
£7K yep If it was me with £7K to spend i'd do the following:-
£2700 - 1.8 Eunos (gets Torsen LSD thats better and stronger, big brakes, better fuel rail than 1.6)
£1000 - Link G3 ECU with boost control all mapped and fitted.
£2500ish - BEGI kit GT28 or GT25 depending on BHP aim
£400 - RC developments 550cc injectors
£300 - koyo alloy rad
Will be reliable and fast, to be honest my car proven puts out a minimum of 250bhp at surrey RR, I guess its about 265bhp now on high boost, as since then the maps been played with and boost increased at the top end and unless your on a dual carriageway its actually scary fast over 5000rpm, i've been finding my self lifting off or changing up 1000rpm before the redline. Remember as your turboign an n/a car the power curve remains n/a like i.e. keeps on building to the redline and loves to rev.
Herman Toothrot said:
tybo said:
It would probably make more sense to buy one with one of the above already fitted
but only if you know its history, if it was poorly put together or mapped, or driven by a spanner then you could bo spending lots to sort it out. I did mine from scratch for this reason.I only meant cost wise...as they're generally no more expensive than a standard car.
tybo said:
Herman Toothrot said:
tybo said:
It would probably make more sense to buy one with one of the above already fitted
but only if you know its history, if it was poorly put together or mapped, or driven by a spanner then you could bo spending lots to sort it out. I did mine from scratch for this reason.I only meant cost wise...as they're generally no more expensive than a standard car.
Thanks for those informative posts guys, a really interesting read, and good to see what is possible for my money. I think now that is the way to go if I want to trade up from the teg, if I can break the 200 BHP per tonne barrier then I would obviously be very happy with that. As for the "dog slow" comment, I know it sounds harsh and I am used to high revving cars since I had a clio 182 before but it really did feel rather gutless even when revved out as high as it would go, so I would have to go for the forced induction route or i would end up hating it for its lack of performance, even though I realise its not really the point of these cars...
Back when I had an na Mk1 on a trip up to Scotland we got in to a bit of a race through a really tight twisty road (no straights at all) with a Scooby STI and he just couldn't shake us off. As there were no straights he couldn't use his power and he was hindered by the weight of his car - we could smell his brakes badly!
When we got to the end of the road he roared off but we had to wait for our friends (who were less happy at those sorts of speeds on unknown roads) so we didn't get to chat with him, though I don't think he was in a talking mood.
These days I have to power to beat him on the straights as well as the twisties.
Go for it - you certainly won't regret it - these little cars really are cracking fun and really get under your skin
When we got to the end of the road he roared off but we had to wait for our friends (who were less happy at those sorts of speeds on unknown roads) so we didn't get to chat with him, though I don't think he was in a talking mood.
These days I have to power to beat him on the straights as well as the twisties.
Go for it - you certainly won't regret it - these little cars really are cracking fun and really get under your skin
I wouldn't rush into F/I personally. I came from an Impreza to an MX-5 (this time) and though they feel very slow in comparison, it doesn't take long for you to re-adjust to it's pace. For me, one of the big draws of it is that you can have an indecent amount of fun with it at non-license threatening speeds. You just end up rearranging what makes driving pleasurable, instead of the rush of accelleration an speed, it's more the balance of the car and the feel of getting the most out of the chassis. I can accept that most hot hatches these days will eat it for breakfast, who cares? I know I'm having more fun.
hmm - my 2 cents worth.
- I would definitely have risked buying one with the bits already done, over doing it myself (which is what I did), despite the risks of buying a lemon - it is significantly cheaper.
- totally accept the point that the MX is not about speed and grunt, but I did miss that turbo rush when I got out of my golf GTI and in to the mazda, which was the main reason I had the work done.
- (controversial bit) If I was going to do the work myself, I would probably not have bought a minter, like I did. if you are going to start modding, you'll probably end up changing the brakes, clutch, suspension and tyres, so if these are a bit 'tired' on your prospective car to start with, does it really matter?
- I would definitely have risked buying one with the bits already done, over doing it myself (which is what I did), despite the risks of buying a lemon - it is significantly cheaper.
- totally accept the point that the MX is not about speed and grunt, but I did miss that turbo rush when I got out of my golf GTI and in to the mazda, which was the main reason I had the work done.
- (controversial bit) If I was going to do the work myself, I would probably not have bought a minter, like I did. if you are going to start modding, you'll probably end up changing the brakes, clutch, suspension and tyres, so if these are a bit 'tired' on your prospective car to start with, does it really matter?
go 1.8, even though soon I will have a 1.6 235bhp turbo monster,
reason is ive had to upgrade the chassis bracing (racing beat), diff to torsen, etc. cost me more but happy with the results.
on a 1.8 eunos roadster (check spec) this will be standard.
however 1.6 is more light weight.
Ive had 22 mx5s now and always buy on condtion and when imports when they came in as ive found fresh or recent imports to be less rusty.
reason is ive had to upgrade the chassis bracing (racing beat), diff to torsen, etc. cost me more but happy with the results.
on a 1.8 eunos roadster (check spec) this will be standard.
however 1.6 is more light weight.
Ive had 22 mx5s now and always buy on condtion and when imports when they came in as ive found fresh or recent imports to be less rusty.
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