MX5 mk1 first impressions - do these sound normal?
Discussion
Hi,
Right, had my first decent drive of my eunos on Saturday and a few things came to light. Haven't driven many, so wonder if you guys could comment. I work for a car manufacturer, so used to being quite pedantic on the way cars drive, so probably exagerating a few of these! The car in question is a 1994 1.8 eunos (thought to be an RS-limited) fitted with a strut brace, LSD and bilstein shocks.
* Steering feedback (of the wrong kind!) - seemed to jolt quite badly over bumps and potholes. Admittedly, this was over rather rough rural b-roads, but was rather more than I was expecting. Is this normal? Did stop on better roads, but only where they were billiard table smooth.
Scuttle shake was quite noticable at the same points, but not that much more than I'd expected from a convertible. Only thing I can find is a very slight movement in the steering column if you pull the wheel downwards hard - maybe a column mount is getting a little tired?
* Brakes - seeemd to be ok, but required quite a lot of pedal effort to slow down. Slight "shhhh" noise on the right hand side if you put them on light to moderately (haven't checked the pads yet and it was standing for a while beforehand) and the front left did seem to lock first.
* Dampers - felt a bit floaty and pitched noticably over undulations. It has factory pattern Bilsteins, so maybe these are due for replacment? (cars only done 56,000 miles, so they might be the original ones even)
* Driving impressions - cornering feedback was relatively good provided you didn't hit a bump mid corner, which seemed to overwhelm the steering feel. Balance was surprisingly understeery - it would tighten it's line under accleration, but to provoke it further (in the dry), it seemed you had to lift off slightly on entry and then get straight onto the gas. All seemed to be quite benign though, even lifting off slightly only caused it to tuck in mildly. Wasn't sure of tyre pressures, so I was running 26 psi all round, age/state of the tyres, dampers and alignment are also unknown. Little bit floaty at high speed (120kph+) on the motorway, but I presume this is a combination of old dampers and some lift from the standard front end (might look into a subtle lip soiler before tracking it I think....)
* Headlights - seem to work well, but they vibrate a little on their mountings creating a sort of (very slight) strobe effect on the roadsigns I approached in the dark! Is this normal?
* Stereo - even though this isn't a fault with the car, the bloke who sold it to me has suceeded in losing the facia panel for the stereo! Can anyone suggest what to do (other than moan at him) can I get a replacment facia? Is there a way I can identify what head unit it is (no obvious markings - it's a single CD, so maybe 'standard' mazdaoption?)
Just a few minor niggles. Really enjoyed it though - got lucky with the weather and was out by 8:30 in glorious sunshine on one of my all time favourites roads on Saturday. Sounds nice although very quiet compared to the cars I've driven recently (only wind noise above about 50mph!) and revs freely. The interior is fantastic, it looks great and I'm even getting used to having the indicators on the wrong side!! The hood even seals.....
Right, had my first decent drive of my eunos on Saturday and a few things came to light. Haven't driven many, so wonder if you guys could comment. I work for a car manufacturer, so used to being quite pedantic on the way cars drive, so probably exagerating a few of these! The car in question is a 1994 1.8 eunos (thought to be an RS-limited) fitted with a strut brace, LSD and bilstein shocks.
* Steering feedback (of the wrong kind!) - seemed to jolt quite badly over bumps and potholes. Admittedly, this was over rather rough rural b-roads, but was rather more than I was expecting. Is this normal? Did stop on better roads, but only where they were billiard table smooth.
Scuttle shake was quite noticable at the same points, but not that much more than I'd expected from a convertible. Only thing I can find is a very slight movement in the steering column if you pull the wheel downwards hard - maybe a column mount is getting a little tired?
* Brakes - seeemd to be ok, but required quite a lot of pedal effort to slow down. Slight "shhhh" noise on the right hand side if you put them on light to moderately (haven't checked the pads yet and it was standing for a while beforehand) and the front left did seem to lock first.
* Dampers - felt a bit floaty and pitched noticably over undulations. It has factory pattern Bilsteins, so maybe these are due for replacment? (cars only done 56,000 miles, so they might be the original ones even)
* Driving impressions - cornering feedback was relatively good provided you didn't hit a bump mid corner, which seemed to overwhelm the steering feel. Balance was surprisingly understeery - it would tighten it's line under accleration, but to provoke it further (in the dry), it seemed you had to lift off slightly on entry and then get straight onto the gas. All seemed to be quite benign though, even lifting off slightly only caused it to tuck in mildly. Wasn't sure of tyre pressures, so I was running 26 psi all round, age/state of the tyres, dampers and alignment are also unknown. Little bit floaty at high speed (120kph+) on the motorway, but I presume this is a combination of old dampers and some lift from the standard front end (might look into a subtle lip soiler before tracking it I think....)
* Headlights - seem to work well, but they vibrate a little on their mountings creating a sort of (very slight) strobe effect on the roadsigns I approached in the dark! Is this normal?
* Stereo - even though this isn't a fault with the car, the bloke who sold it to me has suceeded in losing the facia panel for the stereo! Can anyone suggest what to do (other than moan at him) can I get a replacment facia? Is there a way I can identify what head unit it is (no obvious markings - it's a single CD, so maybe 'standard' mazdaoption?)
Just a few minor niggles. Really enjoyed it though - got lucky with the weather and was out by 8:30 in glorious sunshine on one of my all time favourites roads on Saturday. Sounds nice although very quiet compared to the cars I've driven recently (only wind noise above about 50mph!) and revs freely. The interior is fantastic, it looks great and I'm even getting used to having the indicators on the wrong side!! The hood even seals.....
It did feel a bit that way, yes, but it's only done 50,000 miles (general condition seems to substantiate this - very quite engine, very nice interior/exterior, excelletn gearchange etc) I'm told the bushes and (Bilstein) shocks should barely be run in at this age? ....which is odd, I thought they only did about 30,000 miles.
I've been driving rather more modern, much quicker machinery lately, so maybe I'm just asking a bit much? Don't mean that in a condensending way - I love driving it - just wonder if the experience should be a bit more retro than I was expecting
I've been driving rather more modern, much quicker machinery lately, so maybe I'm just asking a bit much? Don't mean that in a condensending way - I love driving it - just wonder if the experience should be a bit more retro than I was expecting
Must admit, I don't think the current turn in on mine is any better than the mk3 I drove last summer.
Do wonder if I was just driving it a bit timidly - it seemed to respond rather better to being thrown around (presumably that compresses the bushes etc to the point they're no longer flexing too much) but I've driven too many cars that'll put you in the hedge for treating them like that!!
Do wonder if I was just driving it a bit timidly - it seemed to respond rather better to being thrown around (presumably that compresses the bushes etc to the point they're no longer flexing too much) but I've driven too many cars that'll put you in the hedge for treating them like that!!
Your car definitely isn't right, even for age and mileage. Your experience sounds similar to mine.
Absolutely the first thing you must do is get the alignment done. When the alignment is out you can get all sorts of odd symptoms, it can even make it feel like your shocks are worn when they're not.
The scuttle shouldn't shake, and can be caused by a number of things. Try to get the car on to original spec springs (if it isnt already - not sure how you find out though). Try to find out if the ride height is as original spec - being too low can give you steering kickback, amongst other things. The steering shouldn't kick back at all, btw.
I have replaced the brakes on my Mk 1 (UK car) with original discs, plus greenstuff pads, braided hoses and new brake fluid. The brakes have been absolutely transformed and I can now pitch the car onto its nose. I've no idea if the braided hoses make a difference 'cos I changed other things, but I strongly suspect that if you fit new discs (not too hard a job) with greenstuff pads (cheaper than Mazda pads) and new fluid fully bled of course, you will also transform your brakes. Oh, my discs were original Mazda items and I would urge you to try to source the same. I got mine from Phil at P5 (google Performance 5)I don't know if he keeps them in stock though. I'd do my best to fit Mazda discs and avoid other types.
Other symptoms, such as you describe with your lights, suggest to me that the suspension is too hard.
Check your wheels as well. Mine came on 15"ers which weighed a ton. I replaced them with a set of secondhand original Mazda alloys, and fitted them with the correct size of 185/60x14 and these made a huge difference, although of course they don't look as good.
Your car shouldn't feel retro, and the steering and seat of the pants should really talk to you, esp. the steering even with power steering. You shouldn't have steering kick back or scuttle shake.
TBH, the original MX5 formula was so good that I believe that those who try to improve it actually end up by making things worse first. They're very easy to screw up, not easy to actually improve. There's a heck of a lot of junk out there in the aftermarket.
All IMO of course.
Absolutely the first thing you must do is get the alignment done. When the alignment is out you can get all sorts of odd symptoms, it can even make it feel like your shocks are worn when they're not.
The scuttle shouldn't shake, and can be caused by a number of things. Try to get the car on to original spec springs (if it isnt already - not sure how you find out though). Try to find out if the ride height is as original spec - being too low can give you steering kickback, amongst other things. The steering shouldn't kick back at all, btw.
I have replaced the brakes on my Mk 1 (UK car) with original discs, plus greenstuff pads, braided hoses and new brake fluid. The brakes have been absolutely transformed and I can now pitch the car onto its nose. I've no idea if the braided hoses make a difference 'cos I changed other things, but I strongly suspect that if you fit new discs (not too hard a job) with greenstuff pads (cheaper than Mazda pads) and new fluid fully bled of course, you will also transform your brakes. Oh, my discs were original Mazda items and I would urge you to try to source the same. I got mine from Phil at P5 (google Performance 5)I don't know if he keeps them in stock though. I'd do my best to fit Mazda discs and avoid other types.
Other symptoms, such as you describe with your lights, suggest to me that the suspension is too hard.
Check your wheels as well. Mine came on 15"ers which weighed a ton. I replaced them with a set of secondhand original Mazda alloys, and fitted them with the correct size of 185/60x14 and these made a huge difference, although of course they don't look as good.
Your car shouldn't feel retro, and the steering and seat of the pants should really talk to you, esp. the steering even with power steering. You shouldn't have steering kick back or scuttle shake.
TBH, the original MX5 formula was so good that I believe that those who try to improve it actually end up by making things worse first. They're very easy to screw up, not easy to actually improve. There's a heck of a lot of junk out there in the aftermarket.
All IMO of course.
The Bilsteins do have a reputation for being a bit uncompromising on UK roads - I guess this might accentuate the scuttle shake too. I didn't realise how much the cars flexed until I fitted a hardtop which reduced the problem a fair bit (but obviously adds weight).
26 PSI is the recommended tyre pressure, so shouldn't need adjusting.
As for unsprung weight; the 15" BBS alloys are the lightest (12lbs) of the 15" wheels Mazda used on the MX-5 so you're off to a good start. I think in terms of outright weight, the 14" version of the same wheel (8.5lbs) was the lightest the factory fitted to the car.
As mentioned by another poster, correct alignment is important although unfortunately there are lots of theories on what constitutes 'perfect' alignment! It might be a process of trial and error. I think these are the factory recommendations.
Might be worth getting the pads and discs looked at - standard brakes are usually pretty responsive so something might be amiss with yours. Has the car been used much recently? It can sometimes take a while to get them fully effective if the car's been standing around for a while (or sitting on a boat for 6 weeks if it's not been in the country long).
The headlights are held in place by a metal ring which is secured by three screws, I guess the first thing to check is whether the screws are tight enough (remove the black plastic headlight surround to get at the ring).
Your stereo might not be original - most cars leave Japan with double DIN stereos and are either converted to single DIN & cubbyhole here, or they have a band expander fitted to pick up UK radio frequencies. If you find a stereo model number, you could try searching ebay for a fascia, but in all honesty you might be better off using eBay to find a replacement head unit - should only be £30 or so for a Sony or similar.
26 PSI is the recommended tyre pressure, so shouldn't need adjusting.
As for unsprung weight; the 15" BBS alloys are the lightest (12lbs) of the 15" wheels Mazda used on the MX-5 so you're off to a good start. I think in terms of outright weight, the 14" version of the same wheel (8.5lbs) was the lightest the factory fitted to the car.
As mentioned by another poster, correct alignment is important although unfortunately there are lots of theories on what constitutes 'perfect' alignment! It might be a process of trial and error. I think these are the factory recommendations.
Might be worth getting the pads and discs looked at - standard brakes are usually pretty responsive so something might be amiss with yours. Has the car been used much recently? It can sometimes take a while to get them fully effective if the car's been standing around for a while (or sitting on a boat for 6 weeks if it's not been in the country long).
The headlights are held in place by a metal ring which is secured by three screws, I guess the first thing to check is whether the screws are tight enough (remove the black plastic headlight surround to get at the ring).
Your stereo might not be original - most cars leave Japan with double DIN stereos and are either converted to single DIN & cubbyhole here, or they have a band expander fitted to pick up UK radio frequencies. If you find a stereo model number, you could try searching ebay for a fascia, but in all honesty you might be better off using eBay to find a replacement head unit - should only be £30 or so for a Sony or similar.
Edited by risotto on Monday 5th March 21:25
Chris71 said:
The car in question is a 1994 1.8 eunos (thought to be an RS-limited) fitted with a strut brace, LSD and bilstein shocks.
Very nice choice - one of the most sought after Mk1 editions
Chris71 said:
Steering feedback (of the wrong kind!) - seemed to jolt quite badly over bumps and potholes.
Well the Bilstein shocks on the Mk1's isn't the best and is known for giving a crashy ride. If they are original then the shocks will be worn and the springs will be sagging. 50k miles and 13 years is a long time for Bilstein shocks.
Chris71 said:
Scuttle shake was quite noticable at the same points
Being a 94 it won't have the chassis braces of later cars so will have noticeable scuttle-shake. Braces can be fitted to improve the matter though.
Chris71 said:
Brakes - seemed to be ok, but required quite a lot of pedal effort to slow down.
Hard to tell without seeing/trying the car myself but I'd guess that the pads & discs could do with replacing (they don't last that long on MX-5s) and the fluid most likely needs replacing too. Disks are cheap (cheaper than pads) so it doesn't cost much as long as the calipers aren't seized which is quite common on low mileage cars.
Chris71 said:
Dampers - felt a bit floaty and pitched noticably over undulations. It has factory pattern Bilsteins, so maybe these are due for replacment?
Yep - Probably due for replacement. Don't fit Bilsteins though, there are others that are much better (KYB AGX shocks on FM or Eibach springs for example).
Chris71 said:
Driving impressions...
I'm not sure but I think the RS comes with 7" width wheels and 215 width tyres. This is much too wide if you are looking for adjustable handling. Replace with the standard MX-5 size of 195/50/15 or 185/60/14 and the handling will improve drastically.
Chris71 said:
Headlights - seem to work well, but they vibrate a little on their mountings...
It's not right but it is normal. There is an adjustable stop that prevents the headlight assembly vibrating. It's easy to adjust the vibration out.
Chris71 said:
Stereo - ...it's a single CD, so maybe 'standard' mazdaoption?)
I seriously doubt it. Very few cars came with cd players back in 94. It'll be aftermarket. Yes you can get a replacement facia from the manufacturer but it's probably cheaper to get a new stereo.
Chris71 said:
...revs freely. The interior is fantastic, it looks great and I'm even getting used to having the indicators on the wrong side!! The hood even seals.....
you will quickly get used to having the indicators on the RIGHT side. In fact afer a while you will prefer it that way around
If the engine feels strong and the interior is in good condition (I think the RS should have Recaro seats) then it will be a very good car to buy and will be worth good money if you get the brakes/shocks/springs replaced
I'm sure someone will already have pointed you to miata.net but it's a great resource and you'll find advice on just about every aspect of MX-5s. The garage section is probably the most use to you at the moment.
As for the wheels, I could be wrong but I thought all the BBS 15" alloys were 6" rather than 7".
MX-5 lazza's right about the indicators - you almost always have your right hand on the wheel but not always your left, so it makes sense to have the indicators on the right!
As for the wheels, I could be wrong but I thought all the BBS 15" alloys were 6" rather than 7".
MX-5 lazza's right about the indicators - you almost always have your right hand on the wheel but not always your left, so it makes sense to have the indicators on the right!
Edited by risotto on Monday 5th March 21:39
Hi Guys,
Lot of good info there
I suspected the dampers (if they're original) would be on their way out by 59,000 miles, but someone on the owners club forum said they'd be fine at that distance. It certainly feels under damped if you do a 'slalom' down the road - a bit wallowy. It also pitches more than it should do over bumps (nodding the nose!)
It's possibly the softest sprung car I've ever driven - certainly in terms of anything sporty and the ride height appears to be normal, so I'm assuming it's on standard springs, although how fresh they are after 13 years remains to be seen.
Last night I took it out for a drive in an area heavily populated with roundabouts. On the upside, I now have a good idea how it handles when turning right, not so sure about the other way
There is a sort of tugging on the steering wheel than only becomes obvious under hard-ish cornering (within the limit of adhesion, but quick-ish) to start with it felt like the steering was weighting and unweighting, but I think it was actually pulling very slightly in alternate directions. It seemed to be more or less rythmic on a fixed radius corner (roundabout) which made me wonder if it wasn't an unbalanced wheel, but I figured that would be dependant on wheel speed rather than anything else. Wonder if it's play in one of the steering balljoints or maybe the rack? What do you guys reckon? Either way, I'd bet that was linked to the steering kick back!!
Lot of good info there
I suspected the dampers (if they're original) would be on their way out by 59,000 miles, but someone on the owners club forum said they'd be fine at that distance. It certainly feels under damped if you do a 'slalom' down the road - a bit wallowy. It also pitches more than it should do over bumps (nodding the nose!)
It's possibly the softest sprung car I've ever driven - certainly in terms of anything sporty and the ride height appears to be normal, so I'm assuming it's on standard springs, although how fresh they are after 13 years remains to be seen.
Last night I took it out for a drive in an area heavily populated with roundabouts. On the upside, I now have a good idea how it handles when turning right, not so sure about the other way
There is a sort of tugging on the steering wheel than only becomes obvious under hard-ish cornering (within the limit of adhesion, but quick-ish) to start with it felt like the steering was weighting and unweighting, but I think it was actually pulling very slightly in alternate directions. It seemed to be more or less rythmic on a fixed radius corner (roundabout) which made me wonder if it wasn't an unbalanced wheel, but I figured that would be dependant on wheel speed rather than anything else. Wonder if it's play in one of the steering balljoints or maybe the rack? What do you guys reckon? Either way, I'd bet that was linked to the steering kick back!!
Los Angeles said:
Chris71 said:
There is a sort of tugging on the steering wheel than only becomes obvious under hard-ish cornering
Tramlining allied to the suspension having been lowered? I thought tramilining was when it seeks out ridges etc? This even occurs on marble smooth, fresh tarmac. I am 99% sure the car has standard suspension - it happily climbs onto the 'pavment parking' zones near me and simply doesn't look any lower than all the other MX5s going around. If it has been dropped it's very slight. Didn't feel like tramlining as I understand the word (although it does do that too) this was a steady left/right tug (or weighting/unweighting) on the wheel as you went round the corner seemingly independant of the surface.
My bet is play in either the rack or ball joints.
Surely I'd want to test the rack etc first - theres no point getting the alignment check done at £100 or whatever and then finding all the precisely set measurments are +/-10% because of play in the rack or something?
Bloody hell - hope it's not a rack - just got quoted £890+VAT +fitting Eek!
Bloody hell - hope it's not a rack - just got quoted £890+VAT +fitting Eek!
Take it to Tony Bones (yes that is his name) at Wheels In Motion in Watford.
He's not exactly just down the road but he really knows his stuff. I take my car there because I know he will do a good job and won't rip me off.
Tell him what your concerns are and he'll inspect everything to make sure it's all ok before adjusting anything. If he finds a problem he won't do any adjustments so you'll have very little to pay if anything.
The chances are that there is no real problem (at 56k the bushes will probably be worn but ok and the rack should be fine) and a full alignment will correct your cornering/steering problems and will quite possibly improve the feel of the suspension too.
It's also worth inspecting your wheels & tyres. Make sure there no bulges and/or cracks in the tyres and that none of the wheels are bent/damaged.
Any idea what the width/offset of the wheels is and what size & make the tyres are?
He's not exactly just down the road but he really knows his stuff. I take my car there because I know he will do a good job and won't rip me off.
Tell him what your concerns are and he'll inspect everything to make sure it's all ok before adjusting anything. If he finds a problem he won't do any adjustments so you'll have very little to pay if anything.
The chances are that there is no real problem (at 56k the bushes will probably be worn but ok and the rack should be fine) and a full alignment will correct your cornering/steering problems and will quite possibly improve the feel of the suspension too.
It's also worth inspecting your wheels & tyres. Make sure there no bulges and/or cracks in the tyres and that none of the wheels are bent/damaged.
Any idea what the width/offset of the wheels is and what size & make the tyres are?
Chris71 said:
Bloody hell - hope it's not a rack - just got quoted £890+VAT +fitting Eek!
If it is the rack (and ball joints etc ) yours will possibly be the first Mazda to start wearing out at below 150k miles.
I urge you, implore you even, to do nothing at all until you get your alignmemnt done. Nobody knows what they have beneath them until the alignment has been independantly and properly verified (even with a brand new cars - there have been reports of new Mk 3's being not what they should be). Then, and only then, is it worth you driving your car and trying to figure out what it is doing. Honestly, you're wasting your time and possibly putting yourself and others at risk until you get it done. If I were you (and having experienced it myself) I'd try to get it booked in where Lazza says, take a day off work if need be, and get it done as soon as poss. You can't even begin to enjoy your car til then. The symptoms you describe seem to me to be exactly that of an out-of-alignment car.
The next thing is to check your wheels, are they the right ones for the car? Are they of the right width, and more correctly, of the correct offset? If not, get 'em on ebay and buy some proper wheels for the car. (I mean genuine Mazda wheels - you can pick them up reasonably priced second-hand).
The 15" wheels that my car was on, that were on when the car was brand new, courtesy of the UK importer, were junk. They were 7 kilos heavier than the Mazda alloys I replaced them with (this weight includes tyres). When I took them off the car I thought they were possibly the heaviest wheel/tyre combo I had ever lifted off a car. Thats 7 kilos x 4 remember, and thats a total of 28 kilos of rotating weight, which the engine has to accelerate and the car has to brake. What does 28 kilos weigh when its spinning at the sort of revs the wheels are doing at 80 mph? Those wheels buggered my car up completely, making the suspension crash and thump and my windscreen to move. Honestly.
The MX5 was a car designed by some of the best engineers that Japan and the US had. If there was anyone in Britain with the same knowledge then they too would have built a car that would become a huge seller, but there wasn't so they didn't. (Take the MGF as an example.) MX5s are (in my opinion) very difficult to improve upon, and extremely easy to ruin. They're especially so in Britian, because in Britain you're practically allowed to market and sell any old rubbish in the aftermarket tuning industry, regardless of safety or anything.
My car has done 80,000 miles, is supercharged, works hard (trips to the alps, trackdays, nurburgring, fun autotests as well as being a daily driver) and is still on original bushes, suspension etc and it handles well. The bushes really do look fine. I'd like to upgrade the suspension, not least 'cos I want to sprint & hillclimb it this year, but I'm terrified of doing so. (The suspension that is). I hate crashy-bangy hard riding cars and I'd be so pissed off if I blew a good few hundred quid on new suspension just to find I've ruined the car.
But honestly Chris, get your alignment done first. I'll bet a pound to a pinch of shit that its out.
Edited by heebeegeetee on Tuesday 6th March 19:09
Your description of the ride is identical to our S-Special.
It also has billy shocks and has been factory lowered, the ride is very crashy and the car is easily unsettled if it hits a bump mid corner.
Vibration on the lights is caused when the stop is too low, when the light is up it can then vibrate, adjusting the stop wil solve that.
Get your allignment checked, ours was out massively. A quick chat to the guys at micheldever and it's a little gokart with crashy suspension
It also has billy shocks and has been factory lowered, the ride is very crashy and the car is easily unsettled if it hits a bump mid corner.
Vibration on the lights is caused when the stop is too low, when the light is up it can then vibrate, adjusting the stop wil solve that.
Get your allignment checked, ours was out massively. A quick chat to the guys at micheldever and it's a little gokart with crashy suspension
heebeegeetee said:
I'd like to upgrade the suspension, not least 'cos I want to sprint & hillclimb it this year, but I'm terrified of doing so. (The suspension that is). I hate crashy-bangy hard riding cars and I'd be so pissed off if I blew a good few hundred quid on new suspension just to find I've ruined the car.
I'd say you are welcome to try my car (KYB AGX shocks/FM springs & ARBs) but it's a Mk2.5 so the ride & feel is different from a Mk1 and I don't live anywhere near Sutton Coldfield
Wheel weights is a small bug-bear of mine.
The weight of the wheel isn't as important as offset and tyre choice.
On my old Mk1 Berkeley I had to replace the HEAVY stock Berkeley wheels after bending 2 of them in a pot hole. I replaced them with OZ Superlegeras which are very light - possibly half the weight of the Berkeley wheel/tyre combination.
The tyres were moved from the old wheels to the OZ's as they were nearly new so the fact that the OZ's tram-lined very badly and the ride was much worse could only be down to the wheels.
I put the majority of the blam down to moving from the stock 45mm offset to 36mm with the OZ's and the fact that the lightweight OZ's didn't have the weight to be able to make the very stiff side-walls of the Bridgestone SO3 tyres work. I'm sure softer tyres would have felt better but the fact is the lightweight wheels didn't ride as well as the heavy wheels with those tyres.
On my current car I have 2 sets of wheels. One set of 17" OZ SuperTurismo with 205/40/17 Goodyear F1s and a set of 15" Rota Circuit 10 with 195/50/15 Goodyear F1s. Despite the fact that the OZ's are much heavier (double) than the Rotas the ride is pretty much the same. The Rotas have better turn-in and response but the OZs are more stable and have a more confident feel. Both sets of wheels have 45mm offset.
Dont worry, I'm very keen to rectify this with a geometry check rather than £1000's worth of new PAS rack
It does feel like something mechanical though and it only really seems to apply on right hand turns. Without a track (or a contra-rotating roundabout!) I don't often have the oppurtunity round here to drive it enthusiastically round a left turn(!) but the steering seems to be better that way round. Would be surprised if it's just alignment, but I agree that (and some decent tyres) would be a good start and it is something I need to get done at some stage. WIM aren't a great distance away as I spend my weekends in Enfield anyway.
PS It's running the standard 15" RS-LTD BBS alloys - I'm told these are well worth having, so presume they offer quite good unsprung weight?
PPS - Anyone got a number for Tony at WIM? I tried emailing a while back and didn't get any response.
It does feel like something mechanical though and it only really seems to apply on right hand turns. Without a track (or a contra-rotating roundabout!) I don't often have the oppurtunity round here to drive it enthusiastically round a left turn(!) but the steering seems to be better that way round. Would be surprised if it's just alignment, but I agree that (and some decent tyres) would be a good start and it is something I need to get done at some stage. WIM aren't a great distance away as I spend my weekends in Enfield anyway.
PS It's running the standard 15" RS-LTD BBS alloys - I'm told these are well worth having, so presume they offer quite good unsprung weight?
PPS - Anyone got a number for Tony at WIM? I tried emailing a while back and didn't get any response.
Edited by Chris71 on Wednesday 7th March 12:09
mx-5 lazza said:
Chris71 said:
The car in question is a 1994 1.8 eunos (thought to be an RS-limited) fitted with a strut brace, LSD and bilstein shocks.
Well the Bilstein shocks on the Mk1's isn't the best and is known for giving a crashy ride. If they are original then the shocks will be worn and the springs will be sagging. 50k miles and 13 years is a long time for Bilstein shocks.
Errmmm, I'm not sure Lazza... I had Bilsteins on mine, and yes, it was a bit of a hard ride but Mr Dixon at P5 was suprised at their condition when I got them replaced at 87K miles (car is 7 years old). He was expecting them to be leaking, but they were fine. So I would say there could be a few more miles left in them yet.
Hi Helen - I wasn't expecting to see you on here
The original Bilsteins on the Mk1 have a worse reputation than those used on Mk2/2.5. They are much harder and wear quicker.
My Mk2.5 is a Sport so had Bilsteins on as standard but these are nothing like the old Mk1 Bilsteins.
Obviously I can't tell the condition of Chris's Bilsteins just from a forum message and 51k miles isn't beyond what Mk1 Bilsteins are capable of but 51k miles + 13 years + all of the handling issues Chris is seeing points towards possible shock & spring wear.
Of course I'd be happy to be proved wrong as it's quite possible that a full alignment and a set of decent tyres will sort all of the problems - it'll be good is this is the case.
Helen - have you got Tony's number for Chris?
The original Bilsteins on the Mk1 have a worse reputation than those used on Mk2/2.5. They are much harder and wear quicker.
My Mk2.5 is a Sport so had Bilsteins on as standard but these are nothing like the old Mk1 Bilsteins.
Obviously I can't tell the condition of Chris's Bilsteins just from a forum message and 51k miles isn't beyond what Mk1 Bilsteins are capable of but 51k miles + 13 years + all of the handling issues Chris is seeing points towards possible shock & spring wear.
Of course I'd be happy to be proved wrong as it's quite possible that a full alignment and a set of decent tyres will sort all of the problems - it'll be good is this is the case.
Helen - have you got Tony's number for Chris?
Edited by mx-5 lazza on Friday 9th March 22:22
I'd get the alignment checked out, yes there are a few settings floating about but the FM and Lanny settings are a nice all year round set-up.
From your description of driving the car you may have a bump-steer problem because of excessive toe out but only a proper check will tell
Yes the Billys are fine shocks but the valving is a tad hard and the springs a tad soft on the 5's which does give a crashy ride and its not uncommon to find blown shocks at 40k even on mk2 models.
From your description of driving the car you may have a bump-steer problem because of excessive toe out but only a proper check will tell
Yes the Billys are fine shocks but the valving is a tad hard and the springs a tad soft on the 5's which does give a crashy ride and its not uncommon to find blown shocks at 40k even on mk2 models.
Edited by the gazman on Monday 12th March 22:17
Hmm, doesn't feel like bumpsteer. Have since tried the 'bounce' test and realised just how bad the front shocks are (one is leaking fluid!) and one of the springs is sagging. Got a garage to inspect the rack, track rod ends, wheel bearings etc and they're all sound apparently.
Got a mahoosive shopping list together and I'm going down to my parents house (with a nice warm, dry, well stocked workshop) to give it a thurough service with a new cambelt. I'm also fitting new suspension on all four corners. After much deliberation I think I'm going for KYB AGXs, FM springs and superpro bump stops
Got a mahoosive shopping list together and I'm going down to my parents house (with a nice warm, dry, well stocked workshop) to give it a thurough service with a new cambelt. I'm also fitting new suspension on all four corners. After much deliberation I think I'm going for KYB AGXs, FM springs and superpro bump stops
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