Paid a lot for a rust bucket MX5
Discussion
So this is half rant and half asking for advice I suppose. Just bought my first MX5 NC from a dealer. Let’s just say that I spent a few grand more than needed to get a nice example. It’s immaculate up top and has been well cared for with low mileage and great service history.
However, I took it in for a tyre change and found slight signs of rust underneath (no surprise really). It’s been rust proofed underneath so it’s difficult to see the extent of it. I thought I’d check the service history to see what it’s been treated with (dinitrol 2 years ago by the previous owner).
While researching dinitrol and MX5s I accidentally stumbled across some posts from the previous owner (same name, location and mention of my car). He basically said he was having rust issues and did the dinitrol himself because a specialist said the rust had gone too far for them to do it. Sounds like he did a thorough job and he evidently cared for the car, but he made the (probably smart) decision to get rid of it before the problem got worse.
Well now it’s my problem. I suppose my question is, after sinking a reasonable amount of money into the car already (more than I should have paid, truthfully) I'm feeling like I bought a rust bucket. My wife is already asking why I didn’t buy something more sensible… and I feel that my future car buying credibility has taken a knock! I originally planned to enjoy it as a daily for 3 years and then move on, but have no idea how quickly rust issues can develop into major problems? Will it even last that long?
I really don’t want to be spending loads on welding etc. my options are, enjoy it for a year and sell it via WBAC next summer or keep it for as long as I can before it fails an MOT and then asses costs to fix the rust. Am I worrying over nothing or does rust kill these cars quickly?
However, I took it in for a tyre change and found slight signs of rust underneath (no surprise really). It’s been rust proofed underneath so it’s difficult to see the extent of it. I thought I’d check the service history to see what it’s been treated with (dinitrol 2 years ago by the previous owner).
While researching dinitrol and MX5s I accidentally stumbled across some posts from the previous owner (same name, location and mention of my car). He basically said he was having rust issues and did the dinitrol himself because a specialist said the rust had gone too far for them to do it. Sounds like he did a thorough job and he evidently cared for the car, but he made the (probably smart) decision to get rid of it before the problem got worse.
Well now it’s my problem. I suppose my question is, after sinking a reasonable amount of money into the car already (more than I should have paid, truthfully) I'm feeling like I bought a rust bucket. My wife is already asking why I didn’t buy something more sensible… and I feel that my future car buying credibility has taken a knock! I originally planned to enjoy it as a daily for 3 years and then move on, but have no idea how quickly rust issues can develop into major problems? Will it even last that long?
I really don’t want to be spending loads on welding etc. my options are, enjoy it for a year and sell it via WBAC next summer or keep it for as long as I can before it fails an MOT and then asses costs to fix the rust. Am I worrying over nothing or does rust kill these cars quickly?
Edited by mightymolecule on Saturday 8th June 22:41
It all depends how bad it was when he covered it up, dinitrol is very good and does contain inhibitors to try and stop the spread but it isnt a miracle product.
Photos may help but obviously these can be tricky to do.
if it wasnt that bad and not an Mot failure id be inclined to leave it and enjoy it as much as you can, you need to re apply rust proofing products every few years really too to keep it working effectively.
If someone refused to work on it i assume its quite bad though.
Photos may help but obviously these can be tricky to do.
if it wasnt that bad and not an Mot failure id be inclined to leave it and enjoy it as much as you can, you need to re apply rust proofing products every few years really too to keep it working effectively.
If someone refused to work on it i assume its quite bad though.
Sorry to hear - always a bit of a sinking feeling when you buy a car then find out all is not as rosy as you thought it was. Still, that’s part of the rollercoaster of being a car enthusiast.
Rust is always a complex business - no two cars’ history are the same and given the last owner has been working on yours previously, it’s pretty hard to judge. My advice would be don’t let it spoil your fun - it’s a car, it’s fixable, and it will just be about a gradual journey of discovery which will ultimately help you determine what the right fix is, even if the fix becomes to sell it on at some point…
My NA MX5 (1995) is one I’ve spent 16 years slowly getting sorted the way I wanted. About 5 years ago I decided that I wanted to get the underside back to pristine shape (given the rest of the car was all sorted by then). I just did each corner as a separate weekend project - up on jack stands, I took the wheel off of one corner each weekend (easier if it’s not your daily and you have a garage), removed all plastic covers etc, cleaned everything back, then any surface rust got ground back, bare metal treated, primed, painted, then undersealed. Along the way some bits were better than expected, other bits worse and required more work. And sometimes you end up having to replace a few parts but they’re pretty cheap anyway! But that’s all part of the journey. Messy and time consuming but satisfying and you really end up fixing things properly and knowing every part of your car.
Take your time, and take the positives. And you’ll be happy with the result.
Good luck!
Rust is always a complex business - no two cars’ history are the same and given the last owner has been working on yours previously, it’s pretty hard to judge. My advice would be don’t let it spoil your fun - it’s a car, it’s fixable, and it will just be about a gradual journey of discovery which will ultimately help you determine what the right fix is, even if the fix becomes to sell it on at some point…
My NA MX5 (1995) is one I’ve spent 16 years slowly getting sorted the way I wanted. About 5 years ago I decided that I wanted to get the underside back to pristine shape (given the rest of the car was all sorted by then). I just did each corner as a separate weekend project - up on jack stands, I took the wheel off of one corner each weekend (easier if it’s not your daily and you have a garage), removed all plastic covers etc, cleaned everything back, then any surface rust got ground back, bare metal treated, primed, painted, then undersealed. Along the way some bits were better than expected, other bits worse and required more work. And sometimes you end up having to replace a few parts but they’re pretty cheap anyway! But that’s all part of the journey. Messy and time consuming but satisfying and you really end up fixing things properly and knowing every part of your car.
Take your time, and take the positives. And you’ll be happy with the result.
Good luck!
Belle427 said:
It all depends how bad it was when he covered it up, dinitrol is very good and does contain inhibitors to try and stop the spread but it isnt a miracle product.
Photos may help but obviously these can be tricky to do.
if it wasnt that bad and not an Mot failure id be inclined to leave it and enjoy it as much as you can, you need to re apply rust proofing products every few years really too to keep it working effectively.
If someone refused to work on it i assume its quite bad though.
I don't have photos of the underside but I did see underneath last week when it was up on a ramp. The dinitrol makes it hard to see but there's bits of rust on the sills (the main area). It's sort of flaking off a bit. Engine and gearbox are both dry. Not bad enough to poke holes in with a screwdriver but enough to make you wonder what lurks beneath. I think your advice about enjoying it as much as I can and sort of leaving it until it becomes an issue (MOT failure) is probably the way to go.Photos may help but obviously these can be tricky to do.
if it wasnt that bad and not an Mot failure id be inclined to leave it and enjoy it as much as you can, you need to re apply rust proofing products every few years really too to keep it working effectively.
If someone refused to work on it i assume its quite bad though.
bmv6197 said:
Sorry to hear - always a bit of a sinking feeling when you buy a car then find out all is not as rosy as you thought it was. Still, that’s part of the rollercoaster of being a car enthusiast.
Rust is always a complex business - no two cars’ history are the same and given the last owner has been working on yours previously, it’s pretty hard to judge. My advice would be don’t let it spoil your fun - it’s a car, it’s fixable, and it will just be about a gradual journey of discovery which will ultimately help you determine what the right fix is, even if the fix becomes to sell it on at some point…
My NA MX5 (1995) is one I’ve spent 16 years slowly getting sorted the way I wanted. About 5 years ago I decided that I wanted to get the underside back to pristine shape (given the rest of the car was all sorted by then). I just did each corner as a separate weekend project - up on jack stands, I took the wheel off of one corner each weekend (easier if it’s not your daily and you have a garage), removed all plastic covers etc, cleaned everything back, then any surface rust got ground back, bare metal treated, primed, painted, then undersealed. Along the way some bits were better than expected, other bits worse and required more work. And sometimes you end up having to replace a few parts but they’re pretty cheap anyway! But that’s all part of the journey. Messy and time consuming but satisfying and you really end up fixing things properly and knowing every part of your car.
Take your time, and take the positives. And you’ll be happy with the result.
Good luck!
Yours looks great! You must be pleased with the result - well worth the work if the rest of the car is sorted. I'm not mechanically minded and unfortunately also don't have the tools/space to work on the car, so I'm reluctant at this stage to invest anything in improvements etc until I can gauge how bad the rust is. I'm hoping the next MOT (next year) might give me some indication.Rust is always a complex business - no two cars’ history are the same and given the last owner has been working on yours previously, it’s pretty hard to judge. My advice would be don’t let it spoil your fun - it’s a car, it’s fixable, and it will just be about a gradual journey of discovery which will ultimately help you determine what the right fix is, even if the fix becomes to sell it on at some point…
My NA MX5 (1995) is one I’ve spent 16 years slowly getting sorted the way I wanted. About 5 years ago I decided that I wanted to get the underside back to pristine shape (given the rest of the car was all sorted by then). I just did each corner as a separate weekend project - up on jack stands, I took the wheel off of one corner each weekend (easier if it’s not your daily and you have a garage), removed all plastic covers etc, cleaned everything back, then any surface rust got ground back, bare metal treated, primed, painted, then undersealed. Along the way some bits were better than expected, other bits worse and required more work. And sometimes you end up having to replace a few parts but they’re pretty cheap anyway! But that’s all part of the journey. Messy and time consuming but satisfying and you really end up fixing things properly and knowing every part of your car.
Take your time, and take the positives. And you’ll be happy with the result.
Good luck!
Hugo Stiglitz said:
It all depends, if you can easily poke holes in with a screwdriver then your probably looking at a full strip down for peace of mind?
The fact that the previous owner used it to mask? the rust or did do so after some work first? Are his posts quite explicit?
You can't poke holes in it, but the dinitrol is flaking off in places and rust is showing through. The rust is mostly along the sills. The previous owner did the dinitrol treatment two years before selling it, so I don't think he did it purely to mask. From the paperwork that came with the car, it looks like he invested heavily in it throughout his ownership and didn't take shortcuts. He mentioned in the thread that he did the dinitrol himself because a specialist said they thought the rust had gone too far. He apparently wire brushed it all and cleaned it up before applying, so did a proper job. He got into every cavity and took him ages apparently. He then touched up the dinitrol annually thereafter. But it sounds like he came to the decision that he'd be fighting a losing battle and decided to sell it before it lost its value. The fact that the previous owner used it to mask? the rust or did do so after some work first? Are his posts quite explicit?
I think where my head is at now is to enjoy the car for another year and see what the next MOT throws up relating to rust (if anything). I don't know how quickly rust progresses, so not sure if I can get say 2 years out of it before having to invest in further rust treatment or not. I know at this time I don't feel comfortable spending £1000 or whatever to do an underbody treatment if the issue could potentially return. It's a shame because it's such a low mileage car and is immaculate up top but the rust is something that concerns me.
I'll ignore to a degree the fact you've just bought it from a dealer, but suffice to say if there is substantial corrosion (if) then you would have reasonable grounds to return it. But that's ifs and buts. Let's concentrate on what to do if you keep it.
I work on a lot of mk3s, I know them well and have owned a few.
They are prone to rust in a few areas, areas you can check now to spot if there is substantial corrosion, the main area they go is in the rear wheel arch at the bottom front section (sill side not bumper). There is a carpet wheel arch liner which is secured with an 8mm screw in to a plastic bung. Get a plastic trim tool under the carpet and pop the bung out or undo the screw (they often break) and flap the carpet up. Now press hard on the area around the bung. If it collapses then stage one of rust is well set in. Stage 2 is from water going in through here and is the section of sill floor behind the bung, this is what usually fails the MOT, if not caught in time it creeps up in to the rear arch, and across in to the rear bulkhead. At the same time as this is going on behind the rear bumper (ten minutes or so to remove) the rear panel where the bumper armature bolts on and in to the boot floor rusts out. Other than the common front wing rust behind indicator lights surface rust these are the main rust areas on mk3s.
Shameless plug, I did write a buyers guide on mk3s for veloce publishing, it's a light read but may have some useful bits for prospective or new owners.
Other rust areas are suspension related, the rear suspension usually looks horrible, the diffs look like they have spent half their life on the sea bed, rusting so badly often new side seals won't even seat properly. It is quite possible that the car just had bad surface rust and suspension rust and that's why the company wouldn't touch it, not being used to MX-5s.
Rustproofing. Ranges in price from a couple of hundred through to a grand or so. The bottom of the range is a quick spray with schutz. This does zero good and plenty of harm. If they can give you your car back in a few hours walk away. Doing the job properly is a multi product, multi layer, substantial strip down job that takes days to a week or so. At the other end of the market are individuals who will convince you that they can do everything short of cure cancer. The process they follow will eradicate rust, protect your investment for years to come etc. it's all nonsense. A 20 year old car has had 20 years worth of rusting. Nothing can reverse that. Despite offering rust proofing services in a lot of cases and especially mk3s that show evidence of corrosion that may need work soon I tend to advise saving your money because nothing I apply can turn rust back in to metal. Don't get taken in by one of these clowns. Rustproof a new/nearly new car or on that's just had the welding done absolutely, but don't just apply it over rust and thinned metal.
So what do I suggest doing with yours? Get it inspected, I'm in East Yorkshire, I'm snowed under with work but will always spend 10 mins chatting to someone about their concerns, a brief inspection can put your mind at ease for no cost. I'm sure your local mx5 specialist will feel the same way. This is not advice as I haven't seen the car, but it it does need welding in the near future, don't waste money on snake oil, stick it to one side and when the welding is necessary get it done, I do have to say mk3s are not that expensive to sort, compared to a mk1 or 2 they repair faster as the repair panels you need to make are simpler, usually the repairs are under plastic trim panels so don't need painting to match the body. Where an average welding job on a MK1 and 2 can wind up being 2-4k on a MK3 it's often 1k or so. Very different cars that rust the same but in different areas.
So don't despair, and don't let someone take you for a ride.
I work on a lot of mk3s, I know them well and have owned a few.
They are prone to rust in a few areas, areas you can check now to spot if there is substantial corrosion, the main area they go is in the rear wheel arch at the bottom front section (sill side not bumper). There is a carpet wheel arch liner which is secured with an 8mm screw in to a plastic bung. Get a plastic trim tool under the carpet and pop the bung out or undo the screw (they often break) and flap the carpet up. Now press hard on the area around the bung. If it collapses then stage one of rust is well set in. Stage 2 is from water going in through here and is the section of sill floor behind the bung, this is what usually fails the MOT, if not caught in time it creeps up in to the rear arch, and across in to the rear bulkhead. At the same time as this is going on behind the rear bumper (ten minutes or so to remove) the rear panel where the bumper armature bolts on and in to the boot floor rusts out. Other than the common front wing rust behind indicator lights surface rust these are the main rust areas on mk3s.
Shameless plug, I did write a buyers guide on mk3s for veloce publishing, it's a light read but may have some useful bits for prospective or new owners.
Other rust areas are suspension related, the rear suspension usually looks horrible, the diffs look like they have spent half their life on the sea bed, rusting so badly often new side seals won't even seat properly. It is quite possible that the car just had bad surface rust and suspension rust and that's why the company wouldn't touch it, not being used to MX-5s.
Rustproofing. Ranges in price from a couple of hundred through to a grand or so. The bottom of the range is a quick spray with schutz. This does zero good and plenty of harm. If they can give you your car back in a few hours walk away. Doing the job properly is a multi product, multi layer, substantial strip down job that takes days to a week or so. At the other end of the market are individuals who will convince you that they can do everything short of cure cancer. The process they follow will eradicate rust, protect your investment for years to come etc. it's all nonsense. A 20 year old car has had 20 years worth of rusting. Nothing can reverse that. Despite offering rust proofing services in a lot of cases and especially mk3s that show evidence of corrosion that may need work soon I tend to advise saving your money because nothing I apply can turn rust back in to metal. Don't get taken in by one of these clowns. Rustproof a new/nearly new car or on that's just had the welding done absolutely, but don't just apply it over rust and thinned metal.
So what do I suggest doing with yours? Get it inspected, I'm in East Yorkshire, I'm snowed under with work but will always spend 10 mins chatting to someone about their concerns, a brief inspection can put your mind at ease for no cost. I'm sure your local mx5 specialist will feel the same way. This is not advice as I haven't seen the car, but it it does need welding in the near future, don't waste money on snake oil, stick it to one side and when the welding is necessary get it done, I do have to say mk3s are not that expensive to sort, compared to a mk1 or 2 they repair faster as the repair panels you need to make are simpler, usually the repairs are under plastic trim panels so don't need painting to match the body. Where an average welding job on a MK1 and 2 can wind up being 2-4k on a MK3 it's often 1k or so. Very different cars that rust the same but in different areas.
So don't despair, and don't let someone take you for a ride.
Edited by wildoliver on Monday 10th June 18:50
Gassing Station | Mazda MX5/Roadster/Miata | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff