NA and rust repairs
Discussion
I imagine this topic has never been covered before! Rust on an NA MX5.
Anyway, the story is this. I want to buy another NA MX5. For reasons I won't go into, it'll ideally be an early import in red. One way or another it's going to have to be rust free whether it arrives with me like that or I sort it after purchase. I'm happy keeping on top of a clean car but I really, really hate rust. The sticking point is this, Having watched the classifieds for several months now I am really only seeing three approaches. Pay really top money for something of genuinely known quality. This typically means buying something that has recently been restored and photos to show the quality of work. Pay about £5k for something that appears to be good but is ultimately an unknown. Or just pay absolute bottom money for a known heap and deal with it myself. I quite like this approach as I'll get to know the car inside out but it has to be cost effective.
On the last option, I feel very out of touch with the economics of these cars. Even cheap ones aren't that cheap any more and for that approach to work, I really need to have some understanding of typical repairs costs for sills and wings and paint at reputable places. How far would £2k go these days on repairs? At that level some of the cheaper cars might be worth a look. Much more, and I think the balance starts to tip much more to just spending more in a better car.
Anyway, the story is this. I want to buy another NA MX5. For reasons I won't go into, it'll ideally be an early import in red. One way or another it's going to have to be rust free whether it arrives with me like that or I sort it after purchase. I'm happy keeping on top of a clean car but I really, really hate rust. The sticking point is this, Having watched the classifieds for several months now I am really only seeing three approaches. Pay really top money for something of genuinely known quality. This typically means buying something that has recently been restored and photos to show the quality of work. Pay about £5k for something that appears to be good but is ultimately an unknown. Or just pay absolute bottom money for a known heap and deal with it myself. I quite like this approach as I'll get to know the car inside out but it has to be cost effective.
On the last option, I feel very out of touch with the economics of these cars. Even cheap ones aren't that cheap any more and for that approach to work, I really need to have some understanding of typical repairs costs for sills and wings and paint at reputable places. How far would £2k go these days on repairs? At that level some of the cheaper cars might be worth a look. Much more, and I think the balance starts to tip much more to just spending more in a better car.
Problem is when you open these cars up things escalate quickly so guessing at prices can be almost impossible.
I'd rather buy a car done with photo evidence of repair work but even this is a little risky.
There are some good ones out there though but it's difficult to trust the sellers word.
I saw one last week locally a chap that restores and works on them was selling.
Solid car with 1.8 VVt swap, Mk 2 interior etc for £4000.
That was on both marketplace and ebay.
There was also one on marketplace that looked interesting, had been fully stripped, repaired and sprayed candy red but the owners had given up on it.
I'd rather buy a car done with photo evidence of repair work but even this is a little risky.
There are some good ones out there though but it's difficult to trust the sellers word.
I saw one last week locally a chap that restores and works on them was selling.
Solid car with 1.8 VVt swap, Mk 2 interior etc for £4000.
That was on both marketplace and ebay.
There was also one on marketplace that looked interesting, had been fully stripped, repaired and sprayed candy red but the owners had given up on it.
Edited by Belle427 on Wednesday 11th October 07:50
Belle427 said:
Problem is when you open these cars up things escalate quickly so guessing at prices can be almost impossible.
I'd rather buy a car done with photo evidence of repair work but even this is a little risky.
A large dose of this - my NA must have had the outer sills done 2009 circa. by 2011 it was apparent that a mere patch. I'd rather buy a car done with photo evidence of repair work but even this is a little risky.
So in 2013 it coincided with other things in life to be tackled properly - by a garage I worked in as a boy and by the body shop guy I saw regularly. two years later I had it returned to me.
Part time use thereafter and in 2020 a rear wishbone snapped, so I spoke to some others about 'overhaul / make safe' - from here actually Oli at The Autobarn and I had a conversation on ensuring the car was still safe, resprung (20+years, 110k miles+, ) and then it began.
Some rust was seen and needed tackling.
And it continued.
So I said just carry on cutting til sound.
Some nasty handiwork from the previous 'restoration' was uncovered, and it took a chunk of money (but in reality, very reasonable for the man hours / skills involved' ) as it was all cut out, and amended to be 'right'.
I would receive multiple Whattsapp videos and images throughout showing the 'problems' and the 'fixes'.
Needless to say, back to a solid and happy NA for that fun hooning round the lanes.
Unless you have orchestrated, or can see the actual performed work, take it as read that it will need doing at some point, I believe to be a good attitude.
Lincsls1 said:
I'd guess that £2k really won't go far on rust repairs I'm afraid, especially if you're wanting good quality and lasting work.
Cheers. I'll have a chat with some specialists as you suggest. MX5 Restorer does put some standard pricing on their site for rear wing and sill repair which works out about £1800. But the price is very much caveated with a 'from' so I would not be at all surprised if real costs can go somewhat higher. And of course these cars can rust further than just those areas. MX5 Restorer are the other end of the country to me but we do have AK automotive up here and I believe there is someone well regarded in Sheffield too? All are options though buying a roadworthy car would be a big help in terms of getting it to someone. TVRees said:
Or did you mean DIY when you wrote " ... deal with it myself ..." ?
Well funny you should say this. I mean, the answer is probably no but it did cross my mind. I do like to get stuck in but I cannot weld and have no welder. It's still something I have thought about as a learning exercise but I think from a pure cost point of view there would be little to be saved by going DIY, especially if paying someone to paint afterwards. Belle427 said:
Problem is when you open these cars up things escalate quickly so guessing at prices can be almost impossible.
I'd rather buy a car done with photo evidence of repair work but even this is a little risky.
There are some good ones out there though but it's difficult to trust the sellers word.
I saw one last week locally a chap that restores and works on them was selling.
Solid car with 1.8 VVt swap, Mk 2 interior etc for £4000.
That was on both marketplace and ebay.
There was also one on marketplace that looked interesting, had been fully stripped, repaired and sprayed candy red but the owners had given up on it.
Every now and then you'll see a car that is clearly owned by someone that knows exactly what they're talking about and there might even be blog photos of the restoration process. I'd probably be comfortable with these sort of cars but obviously they tend to (quite rightly) come at a considerable premium. The ones I'm more wary of are the myriad of car that just say all rust sorted or ones that just state 'original spot welds'. You just don't know what is lurking underneath. I enquired about one car that claimed to have never been welded and was rust free but I could see black overspray up the inner arches and crusting through the black paint on the lower sill. It had almost certainly had a very quick and dirty patch up. Those are the cars I really want to avoid and I think there are many of them out there. I did see that candy red one but if it's the one I'm thinking of I think it is a bare shell and parts? I'd rather buy a car done with photo evidence of repair work but even this is a little risky.
There are some good ones out there though but it's difficult to trust the sellers word.
I saw one last week locally a chap that restores and works on them was selling.
Solid car with 1.8 VVt swap, Mk 2 interior etc for £4000.
That was on both marketplace and ebay.
There was also one on marketplace that looked interesting, had been fully stripped, repaired and sprayed candy red but the owners had given up on it.
Edited by Belle427 on Wednesday 11th October 07:50
PushedDover said:
A large dose of this - my NA must have had the outer sills done 2009 circa. by 2011 it was apparent that a mere patch.
So in 2013 it coincided with other things in life to be tackled properly - by a garage I worked in as a boy and by the body shop guy I saw regularly. two years later I had it returned to me.
Part time use thereafter and in 2020 a rear wishbone snapped, so I spoke to some others about 'overhaul / make safe' - from here actually Oli at The Autobarn and I had a conversation on ensuring the car was still safe, resprung (20+years, 110k miles+, ) and then it began.
Some rust was seen and needed tackling.
And it continued.
So I said just carry on cutting til sound.
Some nasty handiwork from the previous 'restoration' was uncovered, and it took a chunk of money (but in reality, very reasonable for the man hours / skills involved' ) as it was all cut out, and amended to be 'right'.
I would receive multiple Whattsapp videos and images throughout showing the 'problems' and the 'fixes'.
Needless to say, back to a solid and happy NA for that fun hooning round the lanes.
Unless you have orchestrated, or can see the actual performed work, take it as read that it will need doing at some point, I believe to be a good attitude.
Cheers. Exactly my thoughts. Unless I know exactly what I'm getting, maybe I'm better off just buying something in a known poor state and go from there. I guess it's really a case of either buying a poor one or buying one that is absolutely known to be a good by some means. Apologies for asking this, but do you know how much you ended up paying to properly sort the car in the end? So in 2013 it coincided with other things in life to be tackled properly - by a garage I worked in as a boy and by the body shop guy I saw regularly. two years later I had it returned to me.
Part time use thereafter and in 2020 a rear wishbone snapped, so I spoke to some others about 'overhaul / make safe' - from here actually Oli at The Autobarn and I had a conversation on ensuring the car was still safe, resprung (20+years, 110k miles+, ) and then it began.
Some rust was seen and needed tackling.
And it continued.
So I said just carry on cutting til sound.
Some nasty handiwork from the previous 'restoration' was uncovered, and it took a chunk of money (but in reality, very reasonable for the man hours / skills involved' ) as it was all cut out, and amended to be 'right'.
I would receive multiple Whattsapp videos and images throughout showing the 'problems' and the 'fixes'.
Needless to say, back to a solid and happy NA for that fun hooning round the lanes.
Unless you have orchestrated, or can see the actual performed work, take it as read that it will need doing at some point, I believe to be a good attitude.
Cheers for the input all. Lots to chew over.
PushedDover said:
A large dose of this - my NA must have had the outer sills done 2009 circa. by 2011 it was apparent that a mere patch.
So in 2013 it coincided with other things in life to be tackled properly - by a garage I worked in as a boy and by the body shop guy I saw regularly. two years later I had it returned to me.
Part time use thereafter and in 2020 a rear wishbone snapped, so I spoke to some others about 'overhaul / make safe' - from here actually Oli at The Autobarn and I had a conversation on ensuring the car was still safe, resprung (20+years, 110k miles+, ) and then it began.
Some rust was seen and needed tackling.
And it continued.
So I said just carry on cutting til sound.
Some nasty handiwork from the previous 'restoration' was uncovered, and it took a chunk of money (but in reality, very reasonable for the man hours / skills involved' ) as it was all cut out, and amended to be 'right'.
I would receive multiple Whattsapp videos and images throughout showing the 'problems' and the 'fixes'.
Needless to say, back to a solid and happy NA for that fun hooning round the lanes.
Unless you have orchestrated, or can see the actual performed work, take it as read that it will need doing at some point, I believe to be a good attitude.
This makes interesting reading, the MR2 community is in a similar state. People still trying to sell cars as "rust free" or "sills & pockets done, no work needed". Having been through the pain and expense of letting a decent firm dig into mine i no longer believe anything anyone says as about restoration of these old jap classics.So in 2013 it coincided with other things in life to be tackled properly - by a garage I worked in as a boy and by the body shop guy I saw regularly. two years later I had it returned to me.
Part time use thereafter and in 2020 a rear wishbone snapped, so I spoke to some others about 'overhaul / make safe' - from here actually Oli at The Autobarn and I had a conversation on ensuring the car was still safe, resprung (20+years, 110k miles+, ) and then it began.
Some rust was seen and needed tackling.
And it continued.
So I said just carry on cutting til sound.
Some nasty handiwork from the previous 'restoration' was uncovered, and it took a chunk of money (but in reality, very reasonable for the man hours / skills involved' ) as it was all cut out, and amended to be 'right'.
I would receive multiple Whattsapp videos and images throughout showing the 'problems' and the 'fixes'.
Needless to say, back to a solid and happy NA for that fun hooning round the lanes.
Unless you have orchestrated, or can see the actual performed work, take it as read that it will need doing at some point, I believe to be a good attitude.
Another question then. I've had four of these but none of them have been truly rust free so I've been able to answer these for myself.
If you start with a clean car, is it reasonable to expect that with very good maintenance and TLC you can keep the rot away indefinitely? I'm thinking relatively regular cleaning of the underside. Keeping drain holes clear. Throwing Bilt Hamber's entire range at the thing on an annual basis. I suppose I'm thinking that when these cars were new they must have at least lasted a few years before the tin worm emerged and that would generally have been on cars that would be totally neglected in terms of any preventative treatment. Presumably with proper TLC, we should be able to eeek out many years of rust free motoring *if* we start rust free right?....
If you start with a clean car, is it reasonable to expect that with very good maintenance and TLC you can keep the rot away indefinitely? I'm thinking relatively regular cleaning of the underside. Keeping drain holes clear. Throwing Bilt Hamber's entire range at the thing on an annual basis. I suppose I'm thinking that when these cars were new they must have at least lasted a few years before the tin worm emerged and that would generally have been on cars that would be totally neglected in terms of any preventative treatment. Presumably with proper TLC, we should be able to eeek out many years of rust free motoring *if* we start rust free right?....
Surely the key to a rust free MX5 future much depends on its usage. A well sorted car that is kept off the road in a dry, warm, clean garage over the winter months and enjoyed just as a hobby/classic/toy through out the summer and then not deliberately used in the rain should keep them good for many years to come.
The trouble with the MX5 is that they've been so popular, common and cheap, they've been used all year round by 99% of their owners. Even today, you'll still many of them buzzing around in all weathers inappropriate to their design.
I appreciate that cars are made to be used, but these NAs are now classic cars and if we want to keep them on the road they need a lot more TLC then the family hatch.
The trouble with the MX5 is that they've been so popular, common and cheap, they've been used all year round by 99% of their owners. Even today, you'll still many of them buzzing around in all weathers inappropriate to their design.
I appreciate that cars are made to be used, but these NAs are now classic cars and if we want to keep them on the road they need a lot more TLC then the family hatch.
Lincsls1 said:
Surely the key to a rust free MX5 future much depends on its usage. A well sorted car that is kept off the road in a dry, warm, clean garage over the winter months and enjoyed just as a hobby/classic/toy through out the summer and then not deliberately used in the rain should keep them good for many years to come.
The trouble with the MX5 is that they've been so popular, common and cheap, they've been used all year round by 99% of their owners. Even today, you'll still many of them buzzing around in all weathers inappropriate to their design.
I appreciate that cars are made to be used, but these NAs are now classic cars and if we want to keep them on the road they need a lot more TLC then the family hatch.
Good point indeed. In my case it will definitely be garaged. It will be a fourth car so overall usage will be low. The dilemma will be whether to keep it off road in winter. On the one hand, much better for the car. On the other hand, I absolutely love driving convertibles in cold dry weather... The trouble with the MX5 is that they've been so popular, common and cheap, they've been used all year round by 99% of their owners. Even today, you'll still many of them buzzing around in all weathers inappropriate to their design.
I appreciate that cars are made to be used, but these NAs are now classic cars and if we want to keep them on the road they need a lot more TLC then the family hatch.
I still kick myself, about 7 years ago I bought a moss covered Mk1 Eunos Roadster in red for £300.
Expecting the worst, I wasn't particularly excited about fetching it but when I got there I scraped some of the moss away from the arches and sills and was shocked to see beautiful glossy paint and the original spot welds visible under the paint.
Got it home, cleaned it up and it was absolutely immaculate. I think I sold it for £1200 after giving it a tidy up.
I reckon that would be a £5k car now.
To the OP - I'd give the MX5 restorer a call and ask for a rough idea on costs. However, I have seen cars that have been restored and 5 years later require more welding work. I'm not going to say it's poor craftmanship, I think the owners need to take more care with the roof drain holes blocking.
Expecting the worst, I wasn't particularly excited about fetching it but when I got there I scraped some of the moss away from the arches and sills and was shocked to see beautiful glossy paint and the original spot welds visible under the paint.
Got it home, cleaned it up and it was absolutely immaculate. I think I sold it for £1200 after giving it a tidy up.
I reckon that would be a £5k car now.
To the OP - I'd give the MX5 restorer a call and ask for a rough idea on costs. However, I have seen cars that have been restored and 5 years later require more welding work. I'm not going to say it's poor craftmanship, I think the owners need to take more care with the roof drain holes blocking.
Edited by Discendo Discimus on Monday 16th October 14:50
Gad-Westy said:
Good point indeed. In my case it will definitely be garaged. It will be a fourth car so overall usage will be low. The dilemma will be whether to keep it off road in winter. On the one hand, much better for the car. On the other hand, I absolutely love driving convertibles in cold dry weather...
Nothing wrong with using it on a crisp dry winters day, as long as its just that.
pigface1000 said:
Makes little odds on how much its used as even if your car sleeps in a garage, rust is never far away.
Eh? Two identical Mk1 MX5 cars. One is used all year round in all weathers, does 10k miles per year and is left outside.The other only sees the road between April and October, does 3k miles and is kept in a warm insulated garaged. This car also very rarely sees the rain.
In 10 years time, they are going to look very different underneath, no?
In this example, being what they are, I'd expect car 1 to be rotten and car 2 to have minimal light surface rust only.
The MX5 Restorer have some really good videos on their YouTube channel showing what to look out for and the quality of the work they do.
I got them to replace the inner and outer rear arches and end plates on my S2000. The construction in that area is similar to the MX5. I provided them with the panels and they took on the challenge. Obviously with the car being 20+ years old it had other hidden bits they needed to fix as well (rear crash bar/boot area and the chassis rail ends to the boot needed some fabricating.
It was about 16 months ago when they did the work and overall it’s a very good job they have done. I would definitely use them again, especially if I had another MX5.
I have had sills replaced on MK1 MX5s before, but the work done on them was more of a short/medium term patch repair by Autolink, when they existed.
On to the next job….. replace the bushes, bolts, shocks and arms over the winter
I got them to replace the inner and outer rear arches and end plates on my S2000. The construction in that area is similar to the MX5. I provided them with the panels and they took on the challenge. Obviously with the car being 20+ years old it had other hidden bits they needed to fix as well (rear crash bar/boot area and the chassis rail ends to the boot needed some fabricating.
It was about 16 months ago when they did the work and overall it’s a very good job they have done. I would definitely use them again, especially if I had another MX5.
I have had sills replaced on MK1 MX5s before, but the work done on them was more of a short/medium term patch repair by Autolink, when they existed.
On to the next job….. replace the bushes, bolts, shocks and arms over the winter
Lincsls1 said:
Eh? Two identical Mk1 MX5 cars. One is used all year round in all weathers, does 10k miles per year and is left outside.
The other only sees the road between April and October, does 3k miles and is kept in a warm insulated garaged. This car also very rarely sees the rain.
In 10 years time, they are going to look very different underneath, no?
In this example, being what they are, I'd expect car 1 to be rotten and car 2 to have minimal light surface rust only.
I have seen it on cars that have lived in a garage and rarely sees the rain with very low miles. The other only sees the road between April and October, does 3k miles and is kept in a warm insulated garaged. This car also very rarely sees the rain.
In 10 years time, they are going to look very different underneath, no?
In this example, being what they are, I'd expect car 1 to be rotten and car 2 to have minimal light surface rust only.
MX5s rust even the NDs are starting to rust now.
Everyone has their own experiences and opinions on rust - and to some degree they’re all right because if it’s happened to them, they fairly assume it’s true for everyone. In my view the main killer in the UK is salt. Keep your car off the road in those months (and don’t leave it stuffed in a damp shed or garage) and you will slow rust down to a mere trickle, even on an mx5. I now live in New Zealand and like a weirdo I tend to have a look under daily driven NAs and NBs whenever I see one in a supermarket car park and you would be astonished at how much cleaner they are than UK ones. Still out in all weathers but no salt. Just as much rain as the UK, just as damp/humid, but they just rust much more slowly, if at all. I often see clean, original black suspension arms too.
I bought a 95 NA in Scotland in 2007 that was pretty much rust free (a couple of little bubbles here and there that I had cut out and then got it dinitroled) and in 9 years in Aberdeenshire, and 5 years in Devon, with it sorned each winter and stored in a dry garage, it has never got any rust - and I recently pulled it apart to check.
So my rule is - get a clean car or sort a rusty one properly, then dry garage Nov - Mar, and rust will be stalled for many years!
On the subject of getting a rough one or getting a sorted one, one thing I would say having owned a few Mk1s and looked at many is that if the state of rust is bad, often the rest of the car is too. So even once you’ve cut, welded and resprayed, you still have to replace seals, bushes, worn interiors, tired plastics, deferred maintenance etc etc. I would always pay the premium for a tidy car unless all you want is one that’s structurally solid but has lots of patina elsewhere…
I bought a 95 NA in Scotland in 2007 that was pretty much rust free (a couple of little bubbles here and there that I had cut out and then got it dinitroled) and in 9 years in Aberdeenshire, and 5 years in Devon, with it sorned each winter and stored in a dry garage, it has never got any rust - and I recently pulled it apart to check.
So my rule is - get a clean car or sort a rusty one properly, then dry garage Nov - Mar, and rust will be stalled for many years!
On the subject of getting a rough one or getting a sorted one, one thing I would say having owned a few Mk1s and looked at many is that if the state of rust is bad, often the rest of the car is too. So even once you’ve cut, welded and resprayed, you still have to replace seals, bushes, worn interiors, tired plastics, deferred maintenance etc etc. I would always pay the premium for a tidy car unless all you want is one that’s structurally solid but has lots of patina elsewhere…
Gassing Station | Mazda MX5/Roadster/Miata | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff