Discussion
So next year when I turn 55 I am thinking of cashing in one of my piddling pension pots and getting a weekend toy. Life is too short and all that. Near the top of my shortlist of candidates is the venerable MX5 (The GT86 is in there too, the Japanese do know how to make an involving RWD affordable sporty car). What I am not sure of is whether to get a 2 litre NC3.5, or splash out more for an ND. The NCs are probably £4-5K cheaper that early NDs and the unloved MX5 if you believe the motoring press, but I am not sure about that. As I recall, in 2009, EVO gave the facelift 3.5 model a full 5 stars but have only ever given the ND 4 or 4.5 stars so clearly they aren't that bad. However, the ND is a pretty thing and I believe in 2 litre form a fair bit faster as well as being about 100KG lighter I believe. Just after opinions from those who have owned either or both...what would you do?
greenarrow said:
So next year when I turn 55 I am thinking of cashing in one of my piddling pension pots and getting a weekend toy. Life is too short and all that. Near the top of my shortlist of candidates is the venerable MX5 (The GT86 is in there too, the Japanese do know how to make an involving RWD affordable sporty car). What I am not sure of is whether to get a 2 litre NC3.5, or splash out more for an ND. The NCs are probably £4-5K cheaper that early NDs and the unloved MX5 if you believe the motoring press, but I am not sure about that. As I recall, in 2009, EVO gave the facelift 3.5 model a full 5 stars but have only ever given the ND 4 or 4.5 stars so clearly they aren't that bad. However, the ND is a pretty thing and I believe in 2 litre form a fair bit faster as well as being about 100KG lighter I believe. Just after opinions from those who have owned either or both...what would you do?
I went from an NC 3.5 2.0 to an ND2. 2.0.I haven’t driven an ND1 but my thinking when changing was I couldn’t justify spending the money for like for like performance and driving the ND2 when looking to buy was enough to convince me to go with that model.
Both great cars but I’d go for the ND2 if looking at an ND.
Scotter said:
greenarrow said:
So next year when I turn 55 I am thinking of cashing in one of my piddling pension pots and getting a weekend toy. Life is too short and all that. Near the top of my shortlist of candidates is the venerable MX5 (The GT86 is in there too, the Japanese do know how to make an involving RWD affordable sporty car). What I am not sure of is whether to get a 2 litre NC3.5, or splash out more for an ND. The NCs are probably £4-5K cheaper that early NDs and the unloved MX5 if you believe the motoring press, but I am not sure about that. As I recall, in 2009, EVO gave the facelift 3.5 model a full 5 stars but have only ever given the ND 4 or 4.5 stars so clearly they aren't that bad. However, the ND is a pretty thing and I believe in 2 litre form a fair bit faster as well as being about 100KG lighter I believe. Just after opinions from those who have owned either or both...what would you do?
I went from an NC 3.5 2.0 to an ND2. 2.0.I haven’t driven an ND1 but my thinking when changing was I couldn’t justify spending the money for like for like performance and driving the ND2 when looking to buy was enough to convince me to go with that model.
Both great cars but I’d go for the ND2 if looking at an ND.
greenarrow said:
Ahh interesting, so that is the 184 BHP model. Yes that is a fair bit more cash but I understand your rationale, although I've seen comments online that suggest 1) the ND1 is quite a bit quicker than the NC3.5 2.0 despite similar BHP and that 2) the 184 model actually doesn't feel much quicker than the ND1 model. I guess as the first poster on here suggests, I need to drive them to find out!! I do feel the NC3.5 is now looking very affordable which I guess it should be given that earliest models of it are coming up to 14 years old. Car prices are crazy right now. I only paid £1200 for my then 14 year old NB in 2015. Equivalent age NCs now are sooo much pricier!! I would have another NB in a heartbeat if they didn't rust so badly......
It’s the 184 model yes,the RF.The ND1 may well be enough power but I wanted a bit more oomph and after having two NCs fancied a change for what I was paying out.The NB is the one that I never got round to owning,other things getting in the way.
The only people saying the ND2 is barely any different to the ND1 are either ND1 owners who want to be positive about their cars, or people who don't go over 3000RPM. The claims that the ND1 is stronger in the midrange are also false, as the torque curvess from Mazda will attest. The 2.0 engine in the ND2 is brilliant.
I've got a 2019 ND2 I bought new, and have recently got to thrash around a 160k £800 early NC with £1500 of suspension upgrades, and honestly a less ratty NC would be 80% of the car my ND2 is to drive for for 20% the cost to buy but I don't see the value in an expensive late NC over an early one, if you're going to spend proper money just get an ND. They're holding up remarkably well in terms of residuals too, thanks to a massive price hike on new ones I suspect.
Dynamics aside the ND generally is much nicer to live with; the interior isn't like a 90s Japanese econobox, you can get carplay and the Bose stereo is genuinely reasonable for a cheap car, fuel economy is fabulous (I get 10mpg over my friends NC on a hard hoon, and I'm averaging over 40mpg in a car that gets used HARD), and of course it's younger and just less tired feeling. The stability control is also much less invasive on my ND2, I can leave it on and still have a fair bit of sliding around fun with it quite subtly reigning it in but the NC system is very cack handed and you can't leave it on if you're planning any foolishness.
I've got a 2019 ND2 I bought new, and have recently got to thrash around a 160k £800 early NC with £1500 of suspension upgrades, and honestly a less ratty NC would be 80% of the car my ND2 is to drive for for 20% the cost to buy but I don't see the value in an expensive late NC over an early one, if you're going to spend proper money just get an ND. They're holding up remarkably well in terms of residuals too, thanks to a massive price hike on new ones I suspect.
Dynamics aside the ND generally is much nicer to live with; the interior isn't like a 90s Japanese econobox, you can get carplay and the Bose stereo is genuinely reasonable for a cheap car, fuel economy is fabulous (I get 10mpg over my friends NC on a hard hoon, and I'm averaging over 40mpg in a car that gets used HARD), and of course it's younger and just less tired feeling. The stability control is also much less invasive on my ND2, I can leave it on and still have a fair bit of sliding around fun with it quite subtly reigning it in but the NC system is very cack handed and you can't leave it on if you're planning any foolishness.
I have a NC1, my good friend has a ND2 that he kindly allowed me to drive a few weeks ago
While I personally haven't driven a NC2 yet, at least on paper and as someone who doesn't mind modifying, I genuinely don't really see the attraction to them. Yes, the engine is slightly better, but a custom 2.5l swap is better still. Yes the suspension was revised, but again, the aftermarket trumps at least imho whatever 10 years old plus equipment on any NC2.
I think the NC is a very, very good basis for tweaking and tuning, if that is your thing, and if it is you might as well start with the cheapest most solid NC1 you can find. Likewise, if you want cheap top down giggles, I think save your money and get a good NC1 - Be it the world's most dog earred NA or the newest 100 mile old ND, the mx5 DNA (and enjoyment) runs through and through all models, so I personally wouldn't be compelled to spend more money on say a NC2 just because.
If you're looking for a more complete car out of the box, 150% go ND2. The engine is much more alive in the ND and it felt almost exotic, where the NC engine is decent, but just another 4 pot. Then the Small things like the updated interior, toys and slightly smaller size and lower kerb weight, the more modern ESP system (the one in the NC is horrific imo,.I turn it off every drive) make a ND head and shoulders above any NC standard for standard.
But a bit like classic minis back in the day, Once you get into tweaking, then it's a different ball game. After exchanging cars both me and my friend were happy to be back in our own cars, despite the ND unquestionably being superior out of the box, the little tweaks and foibles of my car mean that I'd genuinely take it and a few more tweaks over a ND1. A ND2 would give me pause for thought tho, if he ever offers a straight swap
While I personally haven't driven a NC2 yet, at least on paper and as someone who doesn't mind modifying, I genuinely don't really see the attraction to them. Yes, the engine is slightly better, but a custom 2.5l swap is better still. Yes the suspension was revised, but again, the aftermarket trumps at least imho whatever 10 years old plus equipment on any NC2.
I think the NC is a very, very good basis for tweaking and tuning, if that is your thing, and if it is you might as well start with the cheapest most solid NC1 you can find. Likewise, if you want cheap top down giggles, I think save your money and get a good NC1 - Be it the world's most dog earred NA or the newest 100 mile old ND, the mx5 DNA (and enjoyment) runs through and through all models, so I personally wouldn't be compelled to spend more money on say a NC2 just because.
If you're looking for a more complete car out of the box, 150% go ND2. The engine is much more alive in the ND and it felt almost exotic, where the NC engine is decent, but just another 4 pot. Then the Small things like the updated interior, toys and slightly smaller size and lower kerb weight, the more modern ESP system (the one in the NC is horrific imo,.I turn it off every drive) make a ND head and shoulders above any NC standard for standard.
But a bit like classic minis back in the day, Once you get into tweaking, then it's a different ball game. After exchanging cars both me and my friend were happy to be back in our own cars, despite the ND unquestionably being superior out of the box, the little tweaks and foibles of my car mean that I'd genuinely take it and a few more tweaks over a ND1. A ND2 would give me pause for thought tho, if he ever offers a straight swap
I'm ages with you and went from a NC3.5 to an ND.
Mine's an ND1. The Launch Edition, which is worth searching out for the extra bits, particulalry the Recaro seats. The stock seats in the ND aren't as supportive as the stock seats in the NC.
I liked the NC. More space, better steering and a nicer gearchange. The ND is a better looking car though, both inside and out, more modern, better ride and has been cheaper to run.
Ours is a 2017, so quite an old car now, and a few friends have moved on to the ND2. One even has the latest with "posture control" I think it's called. It is a nicer drive, but it's far too expensive for an MX5.
Performance wise it's the driver that will make the difference between an ND1 and ND2. 3lbft of torque is the difference, 3!! Neither are what you'd call fast. My misses has a 2.0ltr Polo GTi which will easily show them a clean pair of heels.
The main thing I prefer about the ND2 is the gearchange. It definetly feels smoother, slots into place better. Until ours warms up you ofen find yourself double clutching to get a gear!! Once up to temp its much better, but not as sweet as the ND2s.
To summarise - we spent about £10k going from an NC to an ND and I think it was worth it. Would I spend another £10k to go from an ND1 to an ND2, no, I don't think that would be worth it.
Whichever you choose though, they are great cars. My SLK55 barely turns a wheel these days, whenever its a nice day I always grab the keys for the Mazda. Just drive the 5.
Mine's an ND1. The Launch Edition, which is worth searching out for the extra bits, particulalry the Recaro seats. The stock seats in the ND aren't as supportive as the stock seats in the NC.
I liked the NC. More space, better steering and a nicer gearchange. The ND is a better looking car though, both inside and out, more modern, better ride and has been cheaper to run.
Ours is a 2017, so quite an old car now, and a few friends have moved on to the ND2. One even has the latest with "posture control" I think it's called. It is a nicer drive, but it's far too expensive for an MX5.
Performance wise it's the driver that will make the difference between an ND1 and ND2. 3lbft of torque is the difference, 3!! Neither are what you'd call fast. My misses has a 2.0ltr Polo GTi which will easily show them a clean pair of heels.
The main thing I prefer about the ND2 is the gearchange. It definetly feels smoother, slots into place better. Until ours warms up you ofen find yourself double clutching to get a gear!! Once up to temp its much better, but not as sweet as the ND2s.
To summarise - we spent about £10k going from an NC to an ND and I think it was worth it. Would I spend another £10k to go from an ND1 to an ND2, no, I don't think that would be worth it.
Whichever you choose though, they are great cars. My SLK55 barely turns a wheel these days, whenever its a nice day I always grab the keys for the Mazda. Just drive the 5.
clarki said:
Performance wise it's the driver that will make the difference between an ND1 and ND2. 3lbft of torque is the difference, 3!! Neither are what you'd call fast. My misses has a 2.0ltr Polo GTi which will easily show them a clean pair of heels.
I think the reason the ND2 changes were such a smash hit were exactly because they're not really about performance but about feel; I'd probably have had a 1.5 ND over a 2.0 because that was a great sportscar engine that wanted to rev, and the ND2 changes bring that character to the 2.0.In actual fact I wanted an ND when they came out but while I loved the 1.5 it was just a bit too weak for long distance touring and certainly mountainous high altitude stuff (I go on 3000 mile Euro hoons) and the 2.0 just didn't sparkle like the 1.5, it was the ND2 changes that got me to open my wallet.
It did knock the 0-62 down from 7.3 seconds to 6.5 though (same as an automatic polo GTi in fact!), which is not trivial in top trumps terms; a 15% power hike is always nice to have. It's certainly the first MX5 that doesn't outright shame itself in straight line nonsense
Totally agree that it's not worth anything like £10k to go from an ND to and ND2 though, if you really wanted some more high rev capability you'd speak to BBR or someone like that. The equivalent of my car is now £31k with a haggle, vs £23k that I paid in 2019 and I'm really not sure the car is worth that.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 17th March 10:44
Some interesting replies and everyone so far owning an ND has driven the 2 litre. Just wondered what the 1.5 is like? Some journos at launch said it was the purists MX5 and I've just noticed that AutoTrader has a 25000 mile 2016 model just 10 miles away from my house for £12995. That seems good value to me compared with the £18-19k plus being asked for the cheapest 184 models, which I appreciate are three years newer.
It's worth a go for sure, it's very PH to sneer at it's outright performance but 8.3 seconds 0-62 is reasonable, and in any case faster than 95% of drivers will ever, ever do that sprint no matter what they're driving.
Spoke to a chap who owned one and reckoned he was getting 50mpg average despite using it properly too. Only downside it you don't get bilstein dampers, but the aftermarket can sort that if you what it a bit more focussed.
Spoke to a chap who owned one and reckoned he was getting 50mpg average despite using it properly too. Only downside it you don't get bilstein dampers, but the aftermarket can sort that if you what it a bit more focussed.
I drive a MK3.5 PRHT Sport Tech (owned 7 years) & drove a ND1 when they first launched on a Mazda try out day. Various thoughts. Lack of space & storage space. Handled as well as our 3.5 certainly no better. Wasn't any faster.
Did look at FIAT Abarth 124s as I prefer the looks but all too much money to change for a very small "advantage"
Our 3.5 does everything we want, I'd like a slightly bigger boot when we go touring but otherwise very happy with it.
Did look at FIAT Abarth 124s as I prefer the looks but all too much money to change for a very small "advantage"
Our 3.5 does everything we want, I'd like a slightly bigger boot when we go touring but otherwise very happy with it.
Worth mentioning that the ND is smaller in the cabin, if you're a tight fit in an NC you might be completely out of luck. The height adjustable wheel in the ND2 is useful though.
The ND responds very positively to a set of lowering springs, I had the Mazda option ones (that are really Eibach) fitted by the dealer for £300.
The ND responds very positively to a set of lowering springs, I had the Mazda option ones (that are really Eibach) fitted by the dealer for £300.
clarki said:
The main thing I prefer about the ND2 is the gearchange. It definetly feels smoother, slots into place better. Until ours warms up you ofen find yourself double clutching to get a gear!! Once up to temp its much better, but not as sweet as the ND2s.
When starting up and the outside temperature is cold I find I have to double clutch to engage 1st gear in my ND2 as well. A couple of times when really cold I've even had to pull off in 2nd as 1st just wouldn't slot in no matter what. Slothly said:
When starting up and the outside temperature is cold I find I have to double clutch to engage 1st gear in my ND2 as well. A couple of times when really cold I've even had to pull off in 2nd as 1st just wouldn't slot in no matter what.
Same problem here.They don’t like the cold do they?I also find pulling away in first at slow speed when cold(engine)very jumpy and have to drop the clutch sometimes.
I’ve learned to live with it,part of the charm I suppose.
Scotter said:
Same problem here.They don’t like the cold do they?
I also find pulling away in first at slow speed when cold(engine)very jumpy and have to drop the clutch sometimes.
I’ve learned to live with it,part of the charm I suppose.
Not a problem. Just a quirk. I also find pulling away in first at slow speed when cold(engine)very jumpy and have to drop the clutch sometimes.
I’ve learned to live with it,part of the charm I suppose.
Still love the ND2.
No problems with 1st gear in my ND2 but I do have the occasional kangarooing when driving slowly around the work car park when cold. I've owned NA, NB, NC 1.8 and a supercharged 2.0 and now have the ND. The ND is the first mx5 that feels quick enough out of the box to me. I've had the official Mazda lowering springs fitted to mine though as it is very roly poly as standard, a plus is that it also gets rid of the off road style arch gaps.
Slothly said:
Not a problem. Just a quirk.
Still love the ND2.
A quirk yes.Still love the ND2.
Still loving mine too and can’t think of anything I’d change it for save for a 981 cayman.
It’ll probably be my last fun car too for various reasons.
A year into ownership and it still puts a smile on my face when I’ve been out and about in it.
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