MX-5 NC 2.0 Sport or Option?

[geraintthomas]

Hello all,

I've just sold my beautiful 2003 Boxster S. Reason being is that me and my other half are looking for a house soon, and decided to put half of the car sale towards a deposit, and the other half towards a cheap, reliable, fun car. The aim is to eventually get on the track, which is something I've always wanted to do.

The plan is to buy an MX-5 NC 2.0 for around £3,000 and to tighten it up for track use. Uprated suspension, lighter wheels, sticky tyres, good brakes and a roll bar, to name a few things. It has to have an LSD, which narrows it down to the Option or Sport package.

However, I don't know which one to get. The following is purely down to research, and not my own experience:

Sport Pro's:
- 6-speed box?
- Bilstein shocks that handles better as standard
- Bose system

Sport Con's:
- Leather seats (yes, it's a con for me. I've owned a roadster with leather seats and they're too hot in the summer, cold in the winter, wear far quicker, as well as being less comfy and supportive than cloth)
- Bilstein shocks don't take to lowering springs well. The Bilstein shocks are supposedly terrible when lowered, so you'd have to change the shocks and springs, so more costs here.

Option Pro's
- Cloth seats
- Cheaper overall as it's not the 'sought after' model
- Can be lowered on standard shocks with great results

Option Con's:
- Doesn't handle as well as Bilstein's in standard form
- 5-speed box?
- Standard stereo

I'm not bothered about the alloys as they'll eventually be changed.

The gearbox is the one I'm not sure on. I've read that the 6 speed is more engaging, but the 5 speed 'feels' better with the same final drive for motorways, so I'm genuinely unsure which one's best.

I'm leaning towards the Option Pack, purely because of the cloth seats and the cheaper overal price due to not having Bose, leather and 17" alloys. I'm not bothered about the stereo as I've got another car with a great stereo and the alloys would get changed anyway.

I wanted to write this just in case there were some reason I'd be mad not to get a Sport. The gearbox is the one I need advice on.

Thanks!

Edited by geraintthomas on Tuesday 11th August 11:25

Edited by geraintthomas on Tuesday 11th August 11:26

Edited by geraintthomas on Tuesday 11th August 11:26

[rustip]

If you intend on using the car for trips and drives out the 6 speed is definitely a better option for motorway and long distance driving. when you said the seats were too hot in summer and too cold in winter you are able to get a sport with both heated leather seats and aircon, best of both worlds.

[geraintthomas]

rustip said:

If you intend on using the car for trips and drives out the 6 speed is definitely a better option for motorway and long distance driving. when you said the seats were too hot in summer and too cold in winter you are able to get a sport with both heated leather seats and aircon, best of both worlds.

Interesting! I've heard the final drive is the same, so would be good to get your opinion? I know what you mean, but I think I prefer canvas especially for the track too.

[Evoluzione]

geraintthomas said:

Hello all,

I've just sold my beautiful 2003 Boxster S. Reason being is that me and my other half are looking for a house soon, and decided to put half of the car sale towards a deposit, and the other half towards a cheap, reliable, fun car. The aim is to eventually get on the track, which is something I've always wanted to do.

The plan is to buy an MX-5 NC 2.0 for around £3,000 and to tighten it up for track use. Uprated suspension, lighter wheels, sticky tyres, good brakes and a roll bar, to name a few things. It has to have an LSD, which narrows it down to the Option or Sport package.

However, I don't know which one to get. The following is purely down to research, and not my own experience:

Sport Pro's:
- 6-speed box?
- Bilstein shocks that handles better as standard
- Bose system

Sport Con's:
- Leather seats (yes, it's a con for me. I've owned a roadster with leather seats and they're too hot in the summer, cold in the winter, wear far quicker, as well as being less comfy and supportive than cloth)
- Bilstein shocks don't take to lowering springs well. The Bilstein shocks are supposedly terrible when lowered, so you'd have to change the shocks and springs, so more costs here.

Option Pro's
- Cloth seats
- Cheaper overall as it's not the 'sought after' model
- Can be lowered on standard shocks with great results

Option Con's:
- Doesn't handle as well as Bilstein's in standard form
- 5-speed box?
- Standard stereo

I'm not bothered about the alloys as they'll eventually be changed.

The gearbox is the one I'm not sure on. I've read that the 6 speed is more engaging, but the 5 speed 'feels' better with the same final drive for motorways, so I'm genuinely unsure which one's best.

I'm leaning towards the Option Pack, purely because of the cloth seats and the cheaper overal price due to not having Bose, leather and 17" alloys. I'm not bothered about the stereo as I've got another car with a great stereo and the alloys would get changed anyway.

I wanted to write this just in case there were some reason I'd be mad not to get a Sport. The gearbox is the one I need advice on.

Thanks!

All 2 ltrs came with an LSD so that isn't a worry.
It doesn't matter what suspension it's got on it if you're going to ditch it. The Bilsteins are much better on the road, but not completely in the way you would think - they actually soak up the bumps much better whilst the std type bang and crash. Neither are any good for a track car.
5 & 6 speed both have same final drive, the 6 has closer ratios so smaller gap in between, but there isn't much in it. They both feel similar, I certainly wouldn't choose one over the other simply by how they feel as neither is crap. The gear change bush in the 5spd fitted properly from the factory, but the 6spd never did, brass ones are available from MX5 parts which fix that issue. It's easy enough to change.

You need to place much more emphasis on finding one which isn't rusted to buggery or burning oil as that is far more important.

Edited by Evoluzione on Tuesday 11th August 20:19

[TheJimi]

Yep, I wouldn't get too wrapped up in Sport vs non-sport.

Buy on condition first and foremost, the spec is always secondary to condition with older MX5s, imo

I also agree with you on cloth vs leather - I've genuinely never understood why leather is viewed as premium. It's compromised in almost every way other than being wipe clean!

Edited by TheJimi on Wednesday 12th August 00:18

[Evoluzione]

TheJimi said:

Yep, I wouldn't get too wrapped up in Sport vs non-sport.

Buy on condition first and foremost, the spec is always secondary to condition with older MX5s, imo

I also agree with you on cloth vs leather - I've genuinely never understood why leather is viewed as premium. It's compromised in almost every way other than being wipe clean!

Leather doesn't wear right through, cloth seats often have a hole in them.

[geraintthomas]

Evoluzione said:

Leather doesn't wear right through, cloth seats often have a hole in them.

Interesting. The adverts I've seen haven't had any rips - that's the first NC cloth seat I've seen with a rip! But I haven't been on the NC scene for that long

[TheJimi]

Evoluzione said:

TheJimi said:

Yep, I wouldn't get too wrapped up in Sport vs non-sport.

Buy on condition first and foremost, the spec is always secondary to condition with older MX5s, imo

I also agree with you on cloth vs leather - I've genuinely never understood why leather is viewed as premium. It's compromised in almost every way other than being wipe clean!

Leather doesn't wear right through, cloth seats often have a hole in them.

You've chosen an extreme case in an attempt to prove your point.

[Evoluzione]

TheJimi said:

You've chosen an extreme case in an attempt to prove your point.

I post 3 more if you like, but the point is leather doesn't do that.

[geraintthomas]

Evoluzione said:

I post 3 more if you like, but the point is leather doesn't do that.

Leather scuffs, cracks and wears its colour. I've used leather seats for years. Cloth can rip, but can be sewed when done early, and are cheaper to replace. That example is of someone's seat that's been neglected as, with most people, the first sign of a tear would have been sewed and repaired. You can't really do that to leather as cheap as you could with cloth. I do understand what your saying, but the fact that leather is too hot in the summer, freezing in the winter, and can age far quicker than cloth, the pro's of cloth seats outweigh the pro's of leather.

If I had a Sport NC, I'd swap the seats.

Edited by geraintthomas on Wednesday 12th August 11:59

[Evoluzione]

geraintthomas said:

Evoluzione said:

I post 3 more if you like, but the point is leather doesn't do that.

Leather scuffs, cracks and wears its colour. I've used leather seats for years. Cloth can rip, but can be sewed when done early, and are cheaper to replace. That example is of someone's seat that's been neglected as, with most people, the first sign of a tear would have been sewed and repaired. You can't really do that to leather as cheap as you could with cloth. I do understand what your saying, but the fact that leather is too hot in the summer, freezing in the winter, and can age far quicker than cloth, the pro's of cloth seats outweigh the pro's of leather.

If I had a Sport NC, I'd swap the seats.

You'll find the vast majority of £3k cars have been neglected.
I'm not trying to change your mind, you can't argue with taste. I'm just pointing out some facts and if you find a car then now you know which bit of the seat to check. You'll have no problem finding someone who will swap their cloth for your leather if it comes to it.
Although my own personal taste is leather and I don't find it cold in Winter as I wear clothes, I just push the button on the dash to heat it up.
As I live up North hot days in Summer aren't much of an issue and I've never cursed my leather on a hot day.

[geraintthomas]

Evoluzione said:

You'll find the vast majority of £3k cars have been neglected.
I'm not trying to change your mind, you can't argue with taste. I'm just pointing out some facts and if you find a car then now you know which bit of the seat to check. You'll have no problem finding someone who will swap their cloth for your leather if it comes to it.
Although my own personal taste is leather and I don't find it cold in Winter as I wear clothes, I just push the button on the dash to heat it up.
As I live up North hot days in Summer aren't much of an issue and I've never cursed my leather on a hot day.

That's totally fair, you have a valid point. I've been looking at cars around £3k and they're all decent inside, including the seats. To be honest, the majority of the ones I'm looking at are Sport models anyway as there doesn't seem to be many Option packs. It may be a good excuse to swap them with bucket seats, which is another mystery in itself (sliders, no sliders, too high, too low, etc).

[Evoluzione]

geraintthomas said:

Evoluzione said:

You'll find the vast majority of £3k cars have been neglected.
I'm not trying to change your mind, you can't argue with taste. I'm just pointing out some facts and if you find a car then now you know which bit of the seat to check. You'll have no problem finding someone who will swap their cloth for your leather if it comes to it.
Although my own personal taste is leather and I don't find it cold in Winter as I wear clothes, I just push the button on the dash to heat it up.
As I live up North hot days in Summer aren't much of an issue and I've never cursed my leather on a hot day.

That's totally fair, you have a valid point. I've been looking at cars around £3k and they're all decent inside, including the seats. To be honest, the majority of the ones I'm looking at are Sport models anyway as there doesn't seem to be many Option packs. It may be a good excuse to swap them with bucket seats, which is another mystery in itself (sliders, no sliders, too high, too low, etc).

Yes seats are a sizeable subject all on their own.
Personally for road & track i'd keep the originals, track only, fit some better ones. The seats are linked up to the safety system (in the main ECU) along with everything else including the ABS.

What you find (model and seat dependent) is that the passenger has an occupancy sensor in it, possibly side airbag, drivers has airbag and seatbelt is also wired up. So when you take them out you've got to find a way around that as you'll have warning lights and beeps going off.
Sort all that out and you're left with a potentially dangerous car unless you've tied yourself in really tight with a 4 point harness everytime you've dragged yourself over and into the high bolstered bucket seat.
Lowering them is a little easier, you've just got to either buy or make some brackets. If I wasn't tall I wouldn't have bothered, but I couldn't sit up straight with a helmet on and the roof up without.
You also need to spec a seat which is not too wide at the 'wings' which are by your shoulders as they won't physically fit in.

Most of what you need to know is discussed here btw: http://www.duratecnc.co.uk/?cat=1

[TheJimi]

Evoluzione said:

TheJimi said:

You've chosen an extreme case in an attempt to prove your point.

I post 3 more if you like, but the point is leather doesn't do that.

and as Geraint points out, leather scuffs and cracks and I could just as easily post photos of cracked and damaged leather.

Any NC I've looked at (and I've looked at a ridiculous amount!) with cloth seats haven't had holes, much less one the size you've posted to prove your point.

I'm bowing out of this aspect of the discussion, because I simply don't care enough to keep arguing the toss with you on it

So, anyway - OP - what have you found so far?

[geraintthomas]

There are fair points on both, but it's far more common to see aged leather than it is to see aged cloth.

Let's put the leather/cloth argument aside and get back on topic.

I've found a few cars that all have good/bad things about them. One was a Sport in black, and whilst black can look fantastic when restored (look at my previous car), it looks terrible after a day of driving. MX-5 paintwork is, as I've recently researched, very thin. The black cars also use white primer, so they have a lot of stone chips. Black may be a no go for me, which is a shame as the MOT was clean with no corrosion advisories, and it was only 16 miles away from me and in the price range. But I know I'll be unhappy.

I'm in no rush. There was a perfect one that popped up just before I had the money from selling my car. A stormy blue 2.0 Option, cloth seats, with a hard top, all in stunning condition and for an amazing price. It didn't last long though and the day I had the money was the day the advert was gone. My logic is that, if that popped up, another will, so I'm being patient.

Of course I'd want the car to drive great with the upgrades I'm planning, but being a designer I'd also want the car to look good. The colour of the car plays a huge part and I'm not one for simply buying any colour. When I build it into a track day car, I'd also want it to look the part (mainly to make me happy). Stormy blue works with anthracite/silver wheels and silver accents, black works with bronze/gold wheels and grey accents, galaxy grey works with silver wheels with matt black accents, and so on. I'm leaning towards a stormy blue due to the fact that the metallic fleck is gorgeous, and I'm a sucker for blue. Unfortunately this also means I'll completely pass on a silver car, even if it has absolutely no rust and is a great price. I'll never be happy. Think what you will.

A few inspirations with colour whilst we're on the topic:





Back to performance. The car will start out standard so I can get used to the general feel of the car for a while and appreciate it from the factory. I'll then look to tightening it a little with better brakes, suspension and tyres (possibly different alloys for track use), and that'll be it for a while. Good enough for road and the odd track day to get into it. Once I feel comfortable on the track, I'll start exploring performance upgrades to make it more track based. It's completely pointless going full track day spec from the start.

Edited by geraintthomas on Thursday 13th August 13:09

[Accelebrate]

I’d echo the advice about buying the one with the least rusty rear arches you can find.

I think the amp in the Bose system makes going to an aftermarket HU and upgraded speakers a little harder.

I don’t think you can go wrong with either gearbox.

I like having heated seats in a convertible, I’m not sure if the cloth seated cars came with them?

The removable hardtops are massive and unwieldy when not attached to the car.

I like the 17” wheels that came with the Sport, but if you’re looking at aftermarket wheels that probably doesn’t matter. I’ve often managed to find some good prices on 16” semi-slicks so tend to use them for trackdays.

If you’re looking at higher mileage cars and planning to lower it I’d probably skip to fitting adjustable coilovers or something like Koni yellows to replace/refresh the dampers too.

[QSROCKS]

Whichever one you choose, you’ll love the NC. Longest I had kept a car for and I’d drive to Brecon often just for a coffee, the NC was built for those roads.

Miss it so much.

If I ever see S6 MXV up for sale, I’d snap it up.

I did go for a Sport as I loved the 6 gears, I had test driven lots of NC’s back in 2008 and eventually got mine in 2009. Just over three years old, was from a member of the MX5 club and only £7600 - how prices have gone up since! Though I think the financial crisis lowered the prices

[geraintthomas]

Accelebrate said:

I’d echo the advice about buying the one with the least rusty rear arches you can find.

I think the amp in the Bose system makes going to an aftermarket HU and upgraded speakers a little harder.

I don’t think you can go wrong with either gearbox.

I like having heated seats in a convertible, I’m not sure if the cloth seated cars came with them?

The removable hardtops are massive and unwieldy when not attached to the car.

I like the 17” wheels that came with the Sport, but if you’re looking at aftermarket wheels that probably doesn’t matter. I’ve often managed to find some good prices on 16” semi-slicks so tend to use them for trackdays.

If you’re looking at higher mileage cars and planning to lower it I’d probably skip to fitting adjustable coilovers or something like Koni yellows to replace/refresh the dampers too.

It was your thread that's got me excited to get one as you're doing exactly what I'd want to do. Not too bothered with the stereo, hard top is a good shout but will have a house with a garage before long (can wall mount it), and the cloth didn't come with heated seats. To be honest I've never liked heated seats as it feels like I've wet myself.

Very good shout about the suspension. Mileage has never bothered me, but if it's over 100,000 I'll probably go coilovers. You can get a set of TEIN coilovers with adjustable height and damping for £450, so that'll be a good place to start. It's just a shame that the Sport models don't lower that well and that you'd have to get new shocks, whereas the non-bilstein shock versions handled great with lowering springs.

QSROCKS said:

Whichever one you choose, you’ll love the NC. Longest I had kept a car for and I’d drive to Brecon often just for a coffee, the NC was built for those roads.

Miss it so much.

If I ever see S6 MXV up for sale, I’d snap it up.

I did go for a Sport as I loved the 6 gears, I had test driven lots of NC’s back in 2008 and eventually got mine in 2009. Just over three years old, was from a member of the MX5 club and only £7600 - how prices have gone up since! Though I think the financial crisis lowered the prices

Did you test the 5-speed at all? Wondering how that felt.

So I think the general rule here with everyone is, option or sport, both are good choices for as long as they're in good condition.

Regarding rusty silly, I'm obviously aware of the situation. It can be cheap if done yourself (Accelebrate is a fine example), or it could be a couple of hundred at a garage if caught early. What's the worst case scenario? I.e. I discover down the line that the sills are in fact hugely corroded up to the wheel arches. What prices are we talking about to get this repaired? Always good to know.

[Evoluzione]

Accelebrate said:

The removable hardtops are massive and unwieldy when not attached to the car.

They're also very expensive and rare now compared to what they were a few years ago, wish i'd bought a few when I could. They also offer more head room for those who are tall with helmets and give the car a different look.

Accelebrate said:

I like the 17” wheels that came with the Sport, but if you’re looking at aftermarket wheels that probably doesn’t matter. I’ve often managed to find some good prices on 16” semi-slicks so tend to use them for trackdays.

The OE 17s look lost in the arches when they've been lowered though, a wider wheel and tyre with some more offset will offer more grip and better stance.

I can't believe I just said better stance at my age but it does and I feel the OP will agree, whether he can afford it or not

[Accelebrate]

Evoluzione said:

Accelebrate said:

The removable hardtops are massive and unwieldy when not attached to the car.

They're also very expensive and rare now compared to what they were a few years ago, wish i'd bought a few when I could. They also offer more head room for those who are tall with helmets and give the car a different look.

Very true, I do like how the car looks with it fitted, it's nicer visually than the PRHT. It does give more room when I'm wearing a helmet, although it's also quite a heavy addition to the car if you're doing track days.

When I bought my car I think I paid £300 extra to keep the hardtop (although I don't think the seller realised you'd ideally need to retain the fitting kit), for that price I'm pleased I've got it.