NB RS vs NC (one of *those* questions sorry)
Discussion
Hello friendly MX5 people, its a while since I've posted in this part of PH!
Its about time for me to rearrange my car situation as I've just changed role and ended up with a work Hilux for my day-to-day use. Currently have Legacy GTB and Nissan Terrano (aka Pathfinder), so there is a lot of redundancy between vehicles... which means it would make sense to sell one or both of those and get an MX5 again!
I've had a couple of Mk1's before (one mostly standard, one low noisy 250rwhp turbo) so I know my way around the Mk1, but never even driven a Mk2 or Mk3. I'm planning to test drive examples of both before deciding of course, but interested in PH feedback.
My first thought was straight to an NC for the extra grunt and a bit more space and comfort for longer trips, the NA's did get a bit buzzy on long runs and I'm not in my 20s anymore...
Then cat among the pigeons, there is a tidy looking low Kms NB RS (145hp 6-speed) not far from me for half the price of most NCs on the market. Very tempting.
From reviews I get the impression the NC is faster and more stable/planted in fast corners, but not quite as sharp, nimble or feelsome (is that even a word?). But those reviews are generally of standard cars and often comparing with less sporty models than the RS. Plenty of the NC's on the market are sportier spec Japanese imports like the RS (I'm in NZ, most cars are JDM imports) or a few have aftermarket suspension already, so that may change things. Bonus of NC is if I decide to get back into trackdays again, the organisers I've used before require roll protection in convertibles but AFAIK accept the factory bars in the NC.
So if anyone has more direct experience, how much difference in perceived performance and driving behaviour is there really between a 145hp 6-speed NB and an early 2.0 6-speed NC? The numbers suggest they're fairly close at sensible speeds, I really don't care so much about outright performance (been there done that with the turbo Mk1) as much as that eager playful feeling you buy an MX5 for. And getting the back end out.
Interested in thoughts if you've had both.
Its about time for me to rearrange my car situation as I've just changed role and ended up with a work Hilux for my day-to-day use. Currently have Legacy GTB and Nissan Terrano (aka Pathfinder), so there is a lot of redundancy between vehicles... which means it would make sense to sell one or both of those and get an MX5 again!
I've had a couple of Mk1's before (one mostly standard, one low noisy 250rwhp turbo) so I know my way around the Mk1, but never even driven a Mk2 or Mk3. I'm planning to test drive examples of both before deciding of course, but interested in PH feedback.
My first thought was straight to an NC for the extra grunt and a bit more space and comfort for longer trips, the NA's did get a bit buzzy on long runs and I'm not in my 20s anymore...
Then cat among the pigeons, there is a tidy looking low Kms NB RS (145hp 6-speed) not far from me for half the price of most NCs on the market. Very tempting.
From reviews I get the impression the NC is faster and more stable/planted in fast corners, but not quite as sharp, nimble or feelsome (is that even a word?). But those reviews are generally of standard cars and often comparing with less sporty models than the RS. Plenty of the NC's on the market are sportier spec Japanese imports like the RS (I'm in NZ, most cars are JDM imports) or a few have aftermarket suspension already, so that may change things. Bonus of NC is if I decide to get back into trackdays again, the organisers I've used before require roll protection in convertibles but AFAIK accept the factory bars in the NC.
So if anyone has more direct experience, how much difference in perceived performance and driving behaviour is there really between a 145hp 6-speed NB and an early 2.0 6-speed NC? The numbers suggest they're fairly close at sensible speeds, I really don't care so much about outright performance (been there done that with the turbo Mk1) as much as that eager playful feeling you buy an MX5 for. And getting the back end out.
Interested in thoughts if you've had both.
I'm not an expert at all, but the NBs are famous for the front chassis rails rusting, so give them a good check if you can when you look at the RS.
I prefer the look of the NC myself, so would go that way if I were in your position. The early NCs sat quite high, though obviously that's an easy fix, and I think the NC.5 had an improved engine over the first NC too.
Welcome back by the way.
I prefer the look of the NC myself, so would go that way if I were in your position. The early NCs sat quite high, though obviously that's an easy fix, and I think the NC.5 had an improved engine over the first NC too.
Welcome back by the way.
Had both, raced/hill climbed both.
NC is quite a bit quicker than an NB as standard and much better modded.
Engine is in a different league being a Ford Duratec, rather than the pretty ancient engine in the NB.
More comfortable, more power, better kit and not really any heavier.
Its a no brainer. NC Geo is a must though, and they are sensitive to tyres
NC's can still rust as well, so keep an eye on the drain holes and the cills.
NC is quite a bit quicker than an NB as standard and much better modded.
Engine is in a different league being a Ford Duratec, rather than the pretty ancient engine in the NB.
More comfortable, more power, better kit and not really any heavier.
Its a no brainer. NC Geo is a must though, and they are sensitive to tyres
NC's can still rust as well, so keep an eye on the drain holes and the cills.
Bertrum said:
Had both, raced/hill climbed both.
NC is quite a bit quicker than an NB as standard and much better modded.
Engine is in a different league being a Ford Duratec, rather than the pretty ancient engine in the NB.
More comfortable, more power, better kit and not really any heavier.
Its a no brainer. NC Geo is a must though, and they are sensitive to tyres
NC's can still rust as well, so keep an eye on the drain holes and the cills.
They're 45kg heavier and the engine was designed by Mazda out of interest.NC is quite a bit quicker than an NB as standard and much better modded.
Engine is in a different league being a Ford Duratec, rather than the pretty ancient engine in the NB.
More comfortable, more power, better kit and not really any heavier.
Its a no brainer. NC Geo is a must though, and they are sensitive to tyres
NC's can still rust as well, so keep an eye on the drain holes and the cills.
Just to correct you, the jap RS/VS/S trim cars were 143bhp, not 145. Not a massive difference ofcourse but worth pointing out.
I've had about 40 of them over the years so know them well. Cant offer a direct comparison to the NC but I have heard they are considerably better out of the box if you're going to be tracking them. NC's are super cheap here in uk these days, early ones generally cheaper than a good condition import NB, which sounds different to NZ.
I've had about 40 of them over the years so know them well. Cant offer a direct comparison to the NC but I have heard they are considerably better out of the box if you're going to be tracking them. NC's are super cheap here in uk these days, early ones generally cheaper than a good condition import NB, which sounds different to NZ.
Thanks for the input.
I test drove that local NB RS yesterday - I had actually forgotten how hilariously tiny and low they feel on the road when you're used to larger vehicles.
Its a very straight and tidy car, 72k miles and no rattles! No rust that I could see either, though rust isn't the same issue for MX5s here that it seems to be in the UK anyway (perhaps because our roads aren't salted in winter). Neither of my early Mk1s had any rust either. Interestingly the Mk2 has much less wind noise / buffet at open road speed than my Mk1s did (even with aftermarket windblocker in the Mk1). I think the Mk2 is quiet and comfortable enough for my use anyway.
The only negatives I picked up were a slight reluctance downshifting into 3rd at low revs (which may just be unfamiliarity with that gearbox) and a couple of seams on the roof starting to stretch/pull a little.
I'm leaning towards buying that one, it seems a very good deal in the current market and much easier to justify to myself for a toy than spending double the money on a Mk3. If I'm lucky the Mk2 might even follow the Mk1 price trend and start going up in value. For the record yes, I am quarter Dutch and quarter Scottish.
For market reference if you're interested - The cheapest BRZ86's for sale here are $18-20k, Mk3 MX5's are mostly $12-14k, this Mk2 is asking $6.5k which is less than most Mk1s now.
I test drove that local NB RS yesterday - I had actually forgotten how hilariously tiny and low they feel on the road when you're used to larger vehicles.
Its a very straight and tidy car, 72k miles and no rattles! No rust that I could see either, though rust isn't the same issue for MX5s here that it seems to be in the UK anyway (perhaps because our roads aren't salted in winter). Neither of my early Mk1s had any rust either. Interestingly the Mk2 has much less wind noise / buffet at open road speed than my Mk1s did (even with aftermarket windblocker in the Mk1). I think the Mk2 is quiet and comfortable enough for my use anyway.
The only negatives I picked up were a slight reluctance downshifting into 3rd at low revs (which may just be unfamiliarity with that gearbox) and a couple of seams on the roof starting to stretch/pull a little.
I'm leaning towards buying that one, it seems a very good deal in the current market and much easier to justify to myself for a toy than spending double the money on a Mk3. If I'm lucky the Mk2 might even follow the Mk1 price trend and start going up in value. For the record yes, I am quarter Dutch and quarter Scottish.
For market reference if you're interested - The cheapest BRZ86's for sale here are $18-20k, Mk3 MX5's are mostly $12-14k, this Mk2 is asking $6.5k which is less than most Mk1s now.
Edited by GravelBen on Friday 21st February 07:35
The gearbox could just need some new oil. The 6sp is actually a s
t gearbox compared to the 5sp. Its notchy when cold, notchy when hot and can be imprecise when you are trying to work it quickly. The 5sp is like a dream compared to it.
The oil is easily changed though, so that would likely help along with a new nylon bearing cup and rubber gaiters for the shifter, all of which are consumables.
t gearbox compared to the 5sp. Its notchy when cold, notchy when hot and can be imprecise when you are trying to work it quickly. The 5sp is like a dream compared to it. The oil is easily changed though, so that would likely help along with a new nylon bearing cup and rubber gaiters for the shifter, all of which are consumables.
My mk2 6 speed gearbox gets a bit stiff when the oil needs changing in it. Luckily it is easy to change the oil in the NB because you can top it up through the turret.
Im sure the NC is a better car all round. But I much prefer the size of the NB. It just feels that more agile and more special to drive. They have more classic roadster character, the NC has a more modern character.
Im sure the NC is a better car all round. But I much prefer the size of the NB. It just feels that more agile and more special to drive. They have more classic roadster character, the NC has a more modern character.
Test drove an NC from a local dealer today for comparison, though it was an auto so not quite the same (and I wouldn't buy an auto).
NC engine definitely pulls harder and more eager to rev (though the NB had extra 100kg or so of its owner in passenger seat for my test drive which makes a difference).
NC sat flatter in corners and felt like it would have more outright grip, but not as much steering/chassis feel and a tad nervous/wandery when just cruising along. That could be down to tyres/alignment though.
NC felt like a much bigger car on the road, a lot more 'normal car' like and not the same sense of occasion. More cabin space / elbow room (and easier to hop in and out of), but the NB seats and driving position were more comfortable. Quite noticeable how much bigger the NC steering wheel feels than the Nardi in the NB, its funny how some details stand out.
With the cost difference and for my intended use I think I'll go with the NB and take the more classic feel and sense of occasion over the extra performance and cabin space.
An NC engine in an NB would be great though!
NC engine definitely pulls harder and more eager to rev (though the NB had extra 100kg or so of its owner in passenger seat for my test drive which makes a difference).
NC sat flatter in corners and felt like it would have more outright grip, but not as much steering/chassis feel and a tad nervous/wandery when just cruising along. That could be down to tyres/alignment though.
NC felt like a much bigger car on the road, a lot more 'normal car' like and not the same sense of occasion. More cabin space / elbow room (and easier to hop in and out of), but the NB seats and driving position were more comfortable. Quite noticeable how much bigger the NC steering wheel feels than the Nardi in the NB, its funny how some details stand out.
With the cost difference and for my intended use I think I'll go with the NB and take the more classic feel and sense of occasion over the extra performance and cabin space.
An NC engine in an NB would be great though!
Too late! This one was conveniently local and a good deal, so I grabbed it today. Feels good to be back in an MX5 again. The 3rd gear reluctance went away once I adjusted my seat better than I had on the test drive so no issues there.
I'm not a big fan of the white wheels so might swap those out at some stage (but they are wrapped in a set of almost new Michelin PS3 tyres which is nice).
so no issues there.I'm not a big fan of the white wheels so might swap those out at some stage (but they are wrapped in a set of almost new Michelin PS3 tyres which is nice).
Edited by GravelBen on Saturday 22 February 09:19
yeah defo make the most of the tyres if they're good. they're original mk2 wheels so generally well made, not too heavy etc (made under license by Enkei, fyi).
The 2.5RS/VS/S are a little rarer over these shores (see: lots rarer. there's only a handful that made it over, and ive probably owned most of them) but they are a much better steer than the mk2. Lots of additional chassis bracing so the handling is improved and the engine is a revvy little beauty. We had the VVT 2.5 here from new but they were only 146bhp, they saved the 160bhp models for japan only. They are an interesting little engine, revs well and far more eager at the top end.
I do like a mk2 RS/VS/S though, i've had quite a few. My longest owned steer is currently 330bhp in a mk2 RS, no ABS etc. It;s a bit lairy. They're cheap as chips here so you can find a good one fairly easily. £800-1500 would find you one in good nick. They're bloody expensive to import now from japan, circa £5k+, they would be very clean but just not worth that sort of money imo.
The 2.5RS/VS/S are a little rarer over these shores (see: lots rarer. there's only a handful that made it over, and ive probably owned most of them) but they are a much better steer than the mk2. Lots of additional chassis bracing so the handling is improved and the engine is a revvy little beauty. We had the VVT 2.5 here from new but they were only 146bhp, they saved the 160bhp models for japan only. They are an interesting little engine, revs well and far more eager at the top end.
I do like a mk2 RS/VS/S though, i've had quite a few. My longest owned steer is currently 330bhp in a mk2 RS, no ABS etc. It;s a bit lairy. They're cheap as chips here so you can find a good one fairly easily. £800-1500 would find you one in good nick. They're bloody expensive to import now from japan, circa £5k+, they would be very clean but just not worth that sort of money imo.
Edited by ecksjay on Saturday 22 February 10:16
Evoluzione said:
They're 45kg heavier and the engine was designed by Mazda out of interest.
The base engine is ford. The cams, VVT and intake are Mazda, the cam cover and timing chain cover are different as is the cylinder head gasket to accommodate the VVT. I know this as I rebuilt one, and bought the bits Valves, rings, bearings, from Burton power from the ford Duratec section
Bertrum said:
Evoluzione said:
They're 45kg heavier and the engine was designed by Mazda out of interest.
The base engine is ford. The cams, VVT and intake are Mazda, the cam cover and timing chain cover are different as is the cylinder head gasket to accommodate the VVT. I know this as I rebuilt one, and bought the bits Valves, rings, bearings, from Burton power from the ford Duratec section
That's why no Ford gearboxes fit it, but Mazda ones do.
I know this as it's my job to know it, i've built lots of them
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