NC Sport(daily & track) as replacement for NA(mostly track)?
Discussion
Looking for some advice, possibly from someone else who has moved from NA to NC.
I've had a 95 plate UK spec NA 1.8 for a few years now, deliberately buying the 'poverty' spec (no air con, no power windows) as it was intended as a track day toy (having been lucky enough to be taken on the Palmersport day, i got the bug for track driving). It now has the TR Lane roll bar, plus lowered springs and a track oriented seat but is otherwise pretty stock.
Trouble is that:
1) I've only found time for a max of 4 track events a year over the past 2 years...so it sits in the garage mostly
2) the lowered springs do it no favours on the road
3) SWMBO and I are doing a 5 day organised jaunt from Reims, France ending in Venice in the summer....and need some sporty wheels for the trip that is more comfy than the NA. I could put stock springs and driving seat back, but other half isnt keen on the lack of safety in the NA models...no airbags etc. It's also quite elderly now to be blatting it to Venice and back (the car...not the wife !)
So I am thinking to sell the NA to get an NC 2.0 Sport (ideally with a lift on hard top for winter use..not the weighty metal folding roof)
This would then be used as a daily (wife) , but also hopefully for the occasional trackday (me)
I saw something about some NC's having Bilsteins and LSD (both good for track work I guess) so is that the model to hunt down ?...Some subtle tweaks post Venice could be viable to make it more track worthy, but i dont want to compromise it's road use.
So guess the question is, which NC model should i find....spending ideally up to £5K on initial purchase ??...thx
I've had a 95 plate UK spec NA 1.8 for a few years now, deliberately buying the 'poverty' spec (no air con, no power windows) as it was intended as a track day toy (having been lucky enough to be taken on the Palmersport day, i got the bug for track driving). It now has the TR Lane roll bar, plus lowered springs and a track oriented seat but is otherwise pretty stock.
Trouble is that:
1) I've only found time for a max of 4 track events a year over the past 2 years...so it sits in the garage mostly
2) the lowered springs do it no favours on the road
3) SWMBO and I are doing a 5 day organised jaunt from Reims, France ending in Venice in the summer....and need some sporty wheels for the trip that is more comfy than the NA. I could put stock springs and driving seat back, but other half isnt keen on the lack of safety in the NA models...no airbags etc. It's also quite elderly now to be blatting it to Venice and back (the car...not the wife !)
So I am thinking to sell the NA to get an NC 2.0 Sport (ideally with a lift on hard top for winter use..not the weighty metal folding roof)
This would then be used as a daily (wife) , but also hopefully for the occasional trackday (me)
I saw something about some NC's having Bilsteins and LSD (both good for track work I guess) so is that the model to hunt down ?...Some subtle tweaks post Venice could be viable to make it more track worthy, but i dont want to compromise it's road use.
So guess the question is, which NC model should i find....spending ideally up to £5K on initial purchase ??...thx
I would advise going for the latest and lowest mileage you can find within your budget or whichever face you prefer. Get it inspected underneath for corrosion, especially the cills and front part of the rear wheel arch where it meets the cills.
The Bilsteins are ok, but just ok. If you don't mind a bit of roll on track they'll do, but otherwise you'll be replacing them with some coilovers. You could counteract that by fitting a pair of RX8 ARBs, less roll, but less grip, tighter handling, more fun.
There is no point in buying a Bilstein equipped Sportech and then binning them, so you could consider a lesser Sport model and use the money saved on new suspension, but other models (option pack) did have Billys on too.
Go for a 2 litre obvs, it will have an LSD too.
Look at tyre options before buying the car, you might find a better range for the 17" wheels rather than the 16", but not sure on that.
Get it fully serviced and don't adhere to Mazdas intervals, they're a bit too long.
Have it undersealed and wax injected to preserve it.
Go for a test drive in one or two, you'll find it feels like a bigger heavier car (because it is!), less go-kart like than the NA, but roomier and more luxurious.
It sounds like just what you are looking for....
The Bilsteins are ok, but just ok. If you don't mind a bit of roll on track they'll do, but otherwise you'll be replacing them with some coilovers. You could counteract that by fitting a pair of RX8 ARBs, less roll, but less grip, tighter handling, more fun.
There is no point in buying a Bilstein equipped Sportech and then binning them, so you could consider a lesser Sport model and use the money saved on new suspension, but other models (option pack) did have Billys on too.
Go for a 2 litre obvs, it will have an LSD too.
Look at tyre options before buying the car, you might find a better range for the 17" wheels rather than the 16", but not sure on that.
Get it fully serviced and don't adhere to Mazdas intervals, they're a bit too long.
Have it undersealed and wax injected to preserve it.
Go for a test drive in one or two, you'll find it feels like a bigger heavier car (because it is!), less go-kart like than the NA, but roomier and more luxurious.
It sounds like just what you are looking for....
I did the above, went from an NA to an NC Sport.
If you are looking for something a little more smooth, modern and safe then moving to an NC is the way to go. The NA is more raw and possibly a bit more fun, but you can have plenty of fun in the NC.
£5k should get you a decent NC 2.0 Sport with relatively low mileage. Unless you are going to strip out the interior, finding one with BOSE and heated seats is a plus too. You can then gradually turn it more track focussed as you go if you want to, but still retain comforts to allow long drives and tours as you mention. Mine now has plenty of mods, including Meister R coilovers, ADO8R tyres and the well documented manifold & re-map mod to give it circa 180bhp, and it is more than happy spending the day thrashing around Brands Hatch or touring over to Europe to the 'Ring.
The later Mk3.5 engines are meant to be a little stronger however myself and my friend who has a very similar car to mine have done plenty of track days in our earlier Mk3s without issue.
The points raised above are very valid, a decent undersealing and especially a good geo set up is key on these cars.
If you are looking for something a little more smooth, modern and safe then moving to an NC is the way to go. The NA is more raw and possibly a bit more fun, but you can have plenty of fun in the NC.
£5k should get you a decent NC 2.0 Sport with relatively low mileage. Unless you are going to strip out the interior, finding one with BOSE and heated seats is a plus too. You can then gradually turn it more track focussed as you go if you want to, but still retain comforts to allow long drives and tours as you mention. Mine now has plenty of mods, including Meister R coilovers, ADO8R tyres and the well documented manifold & re-map mod to give it circa 180bhp, and it is more than happy spending the day thrashing around Brands Hatch or touring over to Europe to the 'Ring.
The later Mk3.5 engines are meant to be a little stronger however myself and my friend who has a very similar car to mine have done plenty of track days in our earlier Mk3s without issue.
The points raised above are very valid, a decent undersealing and especially a good geo set up is key on these cars.
It isn't a case of Mazda learning, it's more a case of the public not learning. They need to continue selling cars, as long as they last 10 yrs that will do. If you want it to go as far or longer than that then it's up to you to do something about it.
What isn't so bad is that the signs of corrosion can be gauged from underneath, it's not hidden.
What isn't so bad is that the signs of corrosion can be gauged from underneath, it's not hidden.
I have an MK3 06 2.0l it is as out of the factory, except I have had it undersealed
I hard top is very light, and only goes on in the winter (last week)
I have done 4 track days with it, I am more than likely the slowest on the track, cornering i find it ok, brakes brilliantly on it's standard brakes, just acceleration is very slow compared to just about everything i come across when on the track (I rarely overtake anything!)
I don't intend to up grade anything, as getting to the edge in it is fun! and I know where I can push to on the roads
The stereo is not great, if you get one with a decent sound system and speakers the wife would prefer it ( I may upgrade the stereo as with the roof down the wind blocks out everything over 50)
I love my "5", but performance is not blistering....just fun with the roof down
I hard top is very light, and only goes on in the winter (last week)
I have done 4 track days with it, I am more than likely the slowest on the track, cornering i find it ok, brakes brilliantly on it's standard brakes, just acceleration is very slow compared to just about everything i come across when on the track (I rarely overtake anything!)
I don't intend to up grade anything, as getting to the edge in it is fun! and I know where I can push to on the roads
The stereo is not great, if you get one with a decent sound system and speakers the wife would prefer it ( I may upgrade the stereo as with the roof down the wind blocks out everything over 50)
I love my "5", but performance is not blistering....just fun with the roof down
Thanks all. My trackday experiences have been similar, the NA is underpowered compared to most cars out there, but come the twiddly bits an MX5 is good fun. If it were not for the european jaunt (and comfort/safety needed) I had considered supercharging the NA to give it the HP it deserves, but being a mechanical dunce I would have to pay someone to do it all, and not sure its cost effective.
I found a long NC owner thread in Readers Cars which was useful. Quite worrying the guy in there though who mentioned scrapping his NC due to rust. Thats pretty bad for what can only be a 12-13 year old car, so I will need to be extra careful when hunting one down
NC sport plus the Bilis is my prime target unless i can find a 2.0 that someone has put coilovers on, in which case that might be the go. Now i just need to convince SWMBO to release the funds to buy (cheaper) over winter, then put the NA up for sale in spring when hopefully there are more takers
I found a long NC owner thread in Readers Cars which was useful. Quite worrying the guy in there though who mentioned scrapping his NC due to rust. Thats pretty bad for what can only be a 12-13 year old car, so I will need to be extra careful when hunting one down
NC sport plus the Bilis is my prime target unless i can find a 2.0 that someone has put coilovers on, in which case that might be the go. Now i just need to convince SWMBO to release the funds to buy (cheaper) over winter, then put the NA up for sale in spring when hopefully there are more takers
I swapped from na to nc and have never looked back.
Its a bit less raw but still 95% of the fun. Coupled with more comfort, safety features etc its a much better all round package for me.
The nc is also considerably faster and keeps up much easier in normal traffic than a non modified na does.
As others have said an aftermarket manifold and remap makes a good difference. Makes it sound more sporty too.
If you want year round usuability the folding tin top makes a lot of sense and only weighs 50kg (i think) or so more than the softtop.
Removable hardtops are expensive and hard to find. Think £600 plus to find one with the fitting kit.
Depending on how new a car you want you might actually struggle to find a newer softop anyway.
The bilsteins arent actually that well regarded giving a worse ride and only marginally improved handling. (Although i have not tried them myself) so dont let it be a deal breaker.
Some earlier cars are showing rust now and are getting broken, not because the rust is massively bad but because nc are becoming so cheap, and are plentiful, so it makes more finacial sense to break them. Look generally underneath and at the front of the rear arches in the wheel well.
Its a bit less raw but still 95% of the fun. Coupled with more comfort, safety features etc its a much better all round package for me.
The nc is also considerably faster and keeps up much easier in normal traffic than a non modified na does.
As others have said an aftermarket manifold and remap makes a good difference. Makes it sound more sporty too.
If you want year round usuability the folding tin top makes a lot of sense and only weighs 50kg (i think) or so more than the softtop.
Removable hardtops are expensive and hard to find. Think £600 plus to find one with the fitting kit.
Depending on how new a car you want you might actually struggle to find a newer softop anyway.
The bilsteins arent actually that well regarded giving a worse ride and only marginally improved handling. (Although i have not tried them myself) so dont let it be a deal breaker.
Some earlier cars are showing rust now and are getting broken, not because the rust is massively bad but because nc are becoming so cheap, and are plentiful, so it makes more finacial sense to break them. Look generally underneath and at the front of the rear arches in the wheel well.
I was originally looking for an early 3.0 Z4 as a fun road car with a few trackdays thrown in until I saw a 2007 2.0 NC for sale on one of the MX5 Facebook pages, £6.5k 22k miles, 2 owners, fitted with the BBR Cosworth supercharger, smaller pulley, full exhaust and manifold, Miester R coilovers, IL Motorsport ARB's and drop links, 2nd set of standard wheels and a load of spares - basically ready to go!
My idea was to get a cheaper car and gradually modify it over time, but looking at the costs (receipt for £5k for the supercharger alone!!) it was so much cheaper buying one that was already done. I got it mapped by Nick at Skuzzle and it made 255bhp and 210Ib ft at the wheels, it's an absolute hoot!
Just a manifold, exhaust and remap to approximately 180-190bhp is around £1200-1800 depending where you go.
Next job is to get it undersealed, some sticky tyres and book a few trackdays.
Whatever you decide, you'll have great fun in one whether you modify it yourself or buy one that's already done. They do come up for sale every now and again, there was a BBR turbo charged one a while ago for £7k with all the suspension mods and a set of Team Dynamics 1.2 wheels with 888's, sounds like a lot of money but you wouldn't have to spend much on it which would save you in the long run!
My idea was to get a cheaper car and gradually modify it over time, but looking at the costs (receipt for £5k for the supercharger alone!!) it was so much cheaper buying one that was already done. I got it mapped by Nick at Skuzzle and it made 255bhp and 210Ib ft at the wheels, it's an absolute hoot!
Just a manifold, exhaust and remap to approximately 180-190bhp is around £1200-1800 depending where you go.
Next job is to get it undersealed, some sticky tyres and book a few trackdays.
Whatever you decide, you'll have great fun in one whether you modify it yourself or buy one that's already done. They do come up for sale every now and again, there was a BBR turbo charged one a while ago for £7k with all the suspension mods and a set of Team Dynamics 1.2 wheels with 888's, sounds like a lot of money but you wouldn't have to spend much on it which would save you in the long run!
I was the guy who scrapped one. Bought a cheap 2006 car to build into a sprint car and it was too far gone to bother with. Both sills were gone at the back, the boot floor had holes, the front chassis rails were crusty and all the hard pipes for the coolant were a mess. Combined with a smokey engine I decided to brake it as the costs to weld it up and replace everything was mental.
My other car is also a 2006 MX5 and that had had both sills welded in the last couple of years. Completely my fault for not bothering to get it undersealed when I bought it.
Don’t let this out you off though. The NC is a great car and you’ve clearly read my readers thread for the grey car.
My other car is also a 2006 MX5 and that had had both sills welded in the last couple of years. Completely my fault for not bothering to get it undersealed when I bought it.
Don’t let this out you off though. The NC is a great car and you’ve clearly read my readers thread for the grey car.
This is a good read too: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I had a mk3 2.0 Sport for a few years as a daily and track car. Great little car, and with some simple mods a lot of fun on track. I did a road trip round France and was ideal for it, covering over 2k. Hard top and set of winter wheels and I used it all year round, it never missed a beat
I have a Mk3.5 2.0L Sort Tech with the PRHT. The roof weighs under 30kg & makes it a lot more usable. I can't tell the difference on the road. Not tracked it but I think it'd need the RX8 ARBs as the rear rolls quite a bit.
Supremely comfortable for touring, we followed the Mille Miglia a few years ago around 2K odd. Also managed 44MPG using cruise on the autostradas. Mine has Bose, its OK but not great. The Mk3.5 has a stronger engine with a higher rev limit which I thought was worth chasing. Compared to the MK1 (we have a Eunos as well) some of the parts are quite expensive.
Supremely comfortable for touring, we followed the Mille Miglia a few years ago around 2K odd. Also managed 44MPG using cruise on the autostradas. Mine has Bose, its OK but not great. The Mk3.5 has a stronger engine with a higher rev limit which I thought was worth chasing. Compared to the MK1 (we have a Eunos as well) some of the parts are quite expensive.
sjtgeray said:
Looking for some advice, possibly from someone else who has moved from NA to NC.
As I've recently "upgraded" I'd say try one firstYour wife will love it as it is a safe, comfortable, modern car.
I think it drives like a Z4 or SLK - as standard, it's not a fun car like the MK1
Thanks for the wise advice....i should try before setting my heart on buying one. Especially as many moons ago i had another NA then decided to 'upgrade' to an MGF....until i drove one and hated it - driving position felt like i was driving a Rover hatchback
Challenge is, if it's not a Mk3 then I wonder what other car (at a similar price point) would suffice for:
- the wife's daily
- be a bit of fun on the run through the Swiss Alps - enroute from Reims to Venice
- a few track-days a year
Challenge is, if it's not a Mk3 then I wonder what other car (at a similar price point) would suffice for:
- the wife's daily
- be a bit of fun on the run through the Swiss Alps - enroute from Reims to Venice
- a few track-days a year
i've had 3 NAs and one NC RC. All were great once i'd 'fixed' them.
the folding hardtop is not 50kgs. i think the quoted difference was 35kgs, but that was mostly due to AC which was std fit in the RC. It's not as though the ragtop is so light, that frame weighs a lot.
A lot of early NCs ride like suvs. even if they don't, this car really needs good coilovers for fast road/track. i can't speak highly enough for the Meister Rs.
These cars really respond well to mods, the expertise and market is out there to support quality, value modifications.
OP, the RC is a good choice for your needs i think.
question: anyone out there fitted buckets to the NC and survived the MoT?
std seats offer little support on track. my NA has buckets but that's not an mot problem in such an old car.
the folding hardtop is not 50kgs. i think the quoted difference was 35kgs, but that was mostly due to AC which was std fit in the RC. It's not as though the ragtop is so light, that frame weighs a lot.
A lot of early NCs ride like suvs. even if they don't, this car really needs good coilovers for fast road/track. i can't speak highly enough for the Meister Rs.
These cars really respond well to mods, the expertise and market is out there to support quality, value modifications.
OP, the RC is a good choice for your needs i think.
question: anyone out there fitted buckets to the NC and survived the MoT?
std seats offer little support on track. my NA has buckets but that's not an mot problem in such an old car.
I've had two 3.5 NCs with Bose that have had aftermarket Pioneer double DIN units, they sound great. You can easily get wiring looms to connect them up to the Bose and steering controls.
If your car is going to be for track use and you mod it, at some point you might want to upgrade the clutch. That will be when your wife tells you it's no longer any use as a daily driver. I had an ACT clutch in my last one which could take all the power you gave it, but it was horrible in traffic. I've got a dual-friction clutch in my current MX-5 which takes the power but is much friendlier in normal use.
If your car is going to be for track use and you mod it, at some point you might want to upgrade the clutch. That will be when your wife tells you it's no longer any use as a daily driver. I had an ACT clutch in my last one which could take all the power you gave it, but it was horrible in traffic. I've got a dual-friction clutch in my current MX-5 which takes the power but is much friendlier in normal use.
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