£5k to turn a nb rs into the perfect daily...
Discussion
Picking up my new 98 RS next week. Been four years without a five, and lots has changed since the death of my lovely 91 Mariner Blue Eunos!
Have been looking at all sorts of cars to replace my current GTM Libra, from S2000s to Boxsters to TVRs. In the end a car I sourced for a friend a couple of years came up for a bargain price, all the cars I was looking at had at least one major downside, and a deal was done.
Plan is to do all the major works needed to get the five exactly how I want it, then sell my Libra. May then pick up a Phaeton for longer commutes (I'm a management consultant so work can be down the road or the other end of the country).
Starting fairly well - it already has polybushes (although tempted to get a set of wishbones refurbished with grease ports and stick in some fresh superpro bushes), Gaz Gold Pro dampers, TR Lane half cage, etc. Also brand new RS diff that Thorpe Park paid a stupid amount for after sticking in new car park speed bumps earlier this year.
What it doesn't have is the power I'd like. Chassis is being checked by the MX5 Restorer and will be made perfect - along with the couple of exterior defects (a dinged nearside front wing, stone chipped windscreen surround and bootlid and other 17 year old patina). Then it's time to have some fun. Target is to spend 5k or less on mods after buying the car and sorting the bodywork. That'll mean I've spent less than half my original budget for a car I'll hopefully enjoy a lot more day to day. Also let's me plan something very stupid for the balance!
Would like as close to 250bhp/ton as I can get, as long as it maintains the absolute must - excellent throttle response and smooth power and torque delivery.
What to go for? A couple of years ago I know I'd have been looking at a intercooled and double throttle bodied Eaton supercharger, but they seem as rare as rocking horse poo now. Everyone seems to be going turbo, which I just don't enjoy.
Have seen the Rotrex kit in Germany for a very good price, add in a proper ECU and that should be a lovely thing. But then I see flowed heads, cams and throttle bodies and go a little weak at the knees... Feels like a rabbit hole I could end up falling down and spending huge sums of cash for not huge returns and a loss of driveability day to day?
So, where would your money go in my circumstances? All work being done by those who know what they're doing, so need to allow for installation, setup and all the little bits that crop up.
Pics will follow as soon as I have it, but a fairly standard looking nb in montego blue will be all there is to see for now.
Oh, it's for 20-30k miles a year in all weathers. Needs to be reliable and not too obnoxious to innocent bystanders. AC will be deleted, tempted to remove the abs and fit a wilwood kit. Interior will be unstripped, but a few nice changes are planned.
Have been looking at all sorts of cars to replace my current GTM Libra, from S2000s to Boxsters to TVRs. In the end a car I sourced for a friend a couple of years came up for a bargain price, all the cars I was looking at had at least one major downside, and a deal was done.
Plan is to do all the major works needed to get the five exactly how I want it, then sell my Libra. May then pick up a Phaeton for longer commutes (I'm a management consultant so work can be down the road or the other end of the country).
Starting fairly well - it already has polybushes (although tempted to get a set of wishbones refurbished with grease ports and stick in some fresh superpro bushes), Gaz Gold Pro dampers, TR Lane half cage, etc. Also brand new RS diff that Thorpe Park paid a stupid amount for after sticking in new car park speed bumps earlier this year.
What it doesn't have is the power I'd like. Chassis is being checked by the MX5 Restorer and will be made perfect - along with the couple of exterior defects (a dinged nearside front wing, stone chipped windscreen surround and bootlid and other 17 year old patina). Then it's time to have some fun. Target is to spend 5k or less on mods after buying the car and sorting the bodywork. That'll mean I've spent less than half my original budget for a car I'll hopefully enjoy a lot more day to day. Also let's me plan something very stupid for the balance!
Would like as close to 250bhp/ton as I can get, as long as it maintains the absolute must - excellent throttle response and smooth power and torque delivery.
What to go for? A couple of years ago I know I'd have been looking at a intercooled and double throttle bodied Eaton supercharger, but they seem as rare as rocking horse poo now. Everyone seems to be going turbo, which I just don't enjoy.
Have seen the Rotrex kit in Germany for a very good price, add in a proper ECU and that should be a lovely thing. But then I see flowed heads, cams and throttle bodies and go a little weak at the knees... Feels like a rabbit hole I could end up falling down and spending huge sums of cash for not huge returns and a loss of driveability day to day?
So, where would your money go in my circumstances? All work being done by those who know what they're doing, so need to allow for installation, setup and all the little bits that crop up.
Pics will follow as soon as I have it, but a fairly standard looking nb in montego blue will be all there is to see for now.
Oh, it's for 20-30k miles a year in all weathers. Needs to be reliable and not too obnoxious to innocent bystanders. AC will be deleted, tempted to remove the abs and fit a wilwood kit. Interior will be unstripped, but a few nice changes are planned.
Cheers Helen, I'll have to get my arse up to the Bracknell meet once it's presentable.
Currently being inspired a little by these vids - although I can save on suspension and tyres so can go a little more involved on the engine...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch1xdpkQADw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zSsJqFYfQrU
Currently being inspired a little by these vids - although I can save on suspension and tyres so can go a little more involved on the engine...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch1xdpkQADw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zSsJqFYfQrU
If I was buying now I would go for a a Fast Forward Superchargers Cold Side setup. Throttle response will be stunning and while available power will be a bit lower than on a hot-side kit (harder to intercool) it will be plenty and will be an absolute joy to drive. I'd probably fit the new TVS900 charger and spin it faster to make up for the smaller capacity (actually considering one to replace my MP62).
An alternative would be to buy a charger from them and have a kit built over here. TR Lane could probably help with that.
An alternative would be to buy a charger from them and have a kit built over here. TR Lane could probably help with that.
MX-5 Lazza said:
If I was buying now I would go for a a Fast Forward Superchargers Cold Side setup. Throttle response will be stunning and while available power will be a bit lower than on a hot-side kit (harder to intercool) it will be plenty and will be an absolute joy to drive. I'd probably fit the new TVS900 charger and spin it faster to make up for the smaller capacity (actually considering one to replace my MP62).
An alternative would be to buy a charger from them and have a kit built over here. TR Lane could probably help with that.
I've been reading up on the ffs setup over the weekend, and struggling to figure out how it manages to avoid detonation whilst making good power...An alternative would be to buy a charger from them and have a kit built over here. TR Lane could probably help with that.
The 'ecool' system sounds s
te. Throw loads more fuel in to act as coolant seems the gist. Remove that and run a megasquirt and surely you're just massively restricted on the boost pressure that can be safely run?Wondering if perhaps the route to go with the coldside is a tvs charger running water injection (or perhaps a chargecooler?) off a proper standalone ecu? That way I could buy the cheap coldside kit with just what I need for the coldside charger install and then get all the generic supporting kit locally.
Where are you based Lazza? Would love a passenger ride in a '62 charged five...
Sway said:
I've been reading up on the ffs setup over the weekend, and struggling to figure out how it manages to avoid detonation whilst making good power...
The 'ecool' system sounds ste. Throw loads more fuel in to act as coolant seems the gist. Remove that and run a megasquirt and surely you're just massively restricted on the boost pressure that can be safely run?
Wondering if perhaps the route to go with the coldside is a tvs charger running water injection (or perhaps a chargecooler?) off a proper standalone ecu? That way I could buy the cheap coldside kit with just what I need for the coldside charger install and then get all the generic supporting kit locally.
Where are you based Lazza? Would love a passenger ride in a '62 charged five...
ecool sounds sThe 'ecool' system sounds s
te. Throw loads more fuel in to act as coolant seems the gist. Remove that and run a megasquirt and surely you're just massively restricted on the boost pressure that can be safely run?Wondering if perhaps the route to go with the coldside is a tvs charger running water injection (or perhaps a chargecooler?) off a proper standalone ecu? That way I could buy the cheap coldside kit with just what I need for the coldside charger install and then get all the generic supporting kit locally.
Where are you based Lazza? Would love a passenger ride in a '62 charged five...
te, but it does work...You won't fit a charge cooler on a FFS setup, you' need a complete new custom inlet manifold with one integrated, that won't be cheap unless you're particularly good at fabricating.
In theory WI & a MS will work better than eCool, but there are more points of failure and for a good WI kit it's more expensive.
BEGi tried to do it, but AFAIK only made one and then gave up.
(I have a FFS kit & a MS3 ECU btw).
Which happens to be the first day I'm driving the new five...
Got an appointment with Garath the MX5 Restorer to sort out the ride height, damping and fast road alignment, full chassis and body cavity check, and engine service.
Could plan in a northerly detour to meet up - just read your build thread Lazza, and I've decided to save time and effort, I might as well just nick your car. Got pretty much everything I was planning!
I'm only in Chichester so it's not exactly far.
Any regulars running irtbs?
Got an appointment with Garath the MX5 Restorer to sort out the ride height, damping and fast road alignment, full chassis and body cavity check, and engine service.
Could plan in a northerly detour to meet up - just read your build thread Lazza, and I've decided to save time and effort, I might as well just nick your car. Got pretty much everything I was planning!
I'm only in Chichester so it's not exactly far.
Any regulars running irtbs?
If logic was involved in this purchase I would have bought a bloody diesel Golf!
Lovely car, and clearly done right. Great price too, considering the bits - although shudder to think how much the forged wheels will cost on top.
However, already committed on the one I've gone for. Helped a mate out as he needs it gone, I get to make the car 'my own', and my better half likes the colour.
Besides, there's a lot of fun in building it up over time...
Lovely car, and clearly done right. Great price too, considering the bits - although shudder to think how much the forged wheels will cost on top.
However, already committed on the one I've gone for. Helped a mate out as he needs it gone, I get to make the car 'my own', and my better half likes the colour.
Besides, there's a lot of fun in building it up over time...
Hi Sam,
if your only in Chichester your more than welcome to swing by and entertain yourself in any one of my two!! the turbo is an absolute blast, and the Eunos is just a sweet little thing to drive with sublime road manners and a gutsy free revving engine. When i got the turbo last october, purely for the performance, i couldnt bring myself to get rid of it.
D
if your only in Chichester your more than welcome to swing by and entertain yourself in any one of my two!! the turbo is an absolute blast, and the Eunos is just a sweet little thing to drive with sublime road manners and a gutsy free revving engine. When i got the turbo last october, purely for the performance, i couldnt bring myself to get rid of it.
D
Darren, that's kind of you - I'll drop you a pm once I've got mine so I can properly tell the difference! Current car drives very differently to a five...
Richy, very interesting. How do you run the ecool - off the megasquirt? Also, compared to a typical hot side install is economy noticeably different? I did read a thread where the owner had made a truly foolproof WI system, however as is often the case there was a hell of a lot of assumed knowledge in his description - knowledge I doubt many have! It involved thermocouples and flow meters having to read perfectly to enable autoswitching to the 'mental' map. Without full and constant confirmation, the 'squirt would revert to the safe map (which was still much more powerful than stock!).
The customer support does look awesome on the various fora, even internationally. Precludes a cheeky trip to Spa and the Ring 'on the way to the garage' compared to the rotrex though...
Ah, the rotrex. All the reading I do makes it feel like the perfect fit - especially with the lower final drive of the RS. Shame they're so bloody rare though, and worried there's a good reason for that that I haven't yet found online...
Richy, very interesting. How do you run the ecool - off the megasquirt? Also, compared to a typical hot side install is economy noticeably different? I did read a thread where the owner had made a truly foolproof WI system, however as is often the case there was a hell of a lot of assumed knowledge in his description - knowledge I doubt many have! It involved thermocouples and flow meters having to read perfectly to enable autoswitching to the 'mental' map. Without full and constant confirmation, the 'squirt would revert to the safe map (which was still much more powerful than stock!).
The customer support does look awesome on the various fora, even internationally. Precludes a cheeky trip to Spa and the Ring 'on the way to the garage' compared to the rotrex though...
Ah, the rotrex. All the reading I do makes it feel like the perfect fit - especially with the lower final drive of the RS. Shame they're so bloody rare though, and worried there's a good reason for that that I haven't yet found online...
Sway said:
Richy, very interesting. How do you run the ecool - off the megasquirt? Also, compared to a typical hot side install is economy noticeably different? I did read a thread where the owner had made a truly foolproof WI system, however as is often the case there was a hell of a lot of assumed knowledge in his description - knowledge I doubt many have! It involved thermocouples and flow meters having to read perfectly to enable autoswitching to the 'mental' map. Without full and constant confirmation, the 'squirt would revert to the safe map (which was still much more powerful than stock!).
I don't run e-cool, temps on track hit about 150degC with a pulley ratio of 1.5 (i.e. not spinning it fast at all).WI was on the cards until the blower died.
What you describe is just table switching linked to a low water level sensor, it's not complex to set up. with WI though you really need failsafes thrown in too, to detect blocked jets and to the switch to the safe map.
economy was identical between the hotside and the coldside, it's the same additional load added to the engine when cruising.
Sway said:
Ah, the rotrex. All the reading I do makes it feel like the perfect fit - especially with the lower final drive of the RS. Shame they're so bloody rare though, and worried there's a good reason for that that I haven't yet found online...
If you want bad reviews keep looking... use kraftwerks rotrex as a seearch term. That's not to say the rotrex is bad, but the origional designer, kraftwerks encountered a lot of issues with the design of the brackets etc.That said if I had the money I'd probably go for a rotrex kit next time.
Hmm, so we've had a hotside Eaton blower owner suggest coldside, and a coldside owner suggest rotrex - what's next, a rotrex owner suggesting Whipple?!
It's arrived...
Private plate needs to come off - paperwork is with dvla, just waiting on new logbook. Drove back from friendly mot centre on trade plates.
First things first, a decent clean and check over.
Cost centre three approves, although is sad that 'Lightening McQueen', my GTM, will be going.
Starting well:
Wheels need a refurb (I bought these new for my Eunos, the first set in Europe. In the intervening time they've been owned by three friends, and the centre caps have gone awol) - bought some dremel scotchbrite drums, they don't last long so will be ordering some wet n dry sheets.
Front wing needs replacing, and offside sill needs attention:
Also, now it's had all the filler filled polish removed, seventeen year old paint in desperate need of a full correction polish (handy I spent a fortune on a full kit at FoS then!). Will be held off until the bodywork is done by the MX5 Restorer.
Everyone loves a list!
Foamectomy done as temporary improvement until I've tried some different seats (more importantly, my OH has - she has a genetic condition effecting her joints so needs additional support to ensure her hips don't dislocate (a daily occurrence)). No pics, as it's a bloody boring job!
Few questions:
Is the mk2.5 console a direct replacement or do I need any other bits?
Driver's window doesn't work, and can be manually pushed/pulled up and down. Had the door card off and the cable is hooked up, when the switch in depressed there's a whirring sound but no movement - any clues?
Gaz Gold Pro - they've been messed with by a 'normal' garage to prevent grounding on speed bumps. As a result, the ride height is 325mm rear, 320mm front, but on going over a bump the suspension 'collapses' very quickly. Thought is that the rebound damping has been wound right down, and so the shock isn't extending back quick enough. Any guide on how to get them back into a 'typical' starting setup for ride height and damping?
Best discs/pads for front and rear? Fast road and very occasionally track use...
Aim is to get the simple things on the list done before the 20th (it'll be tough, mental week at work ahead, a week's holiday in Norfolk, two kids and a missus to keep amused, etc.!). Off to Gareth in the morning for full alignment and body/chassis check, then up to Brackley to meet up.
Oh, and have decided rotrex, but waiting on the new kits to be released from Jackson Racing and TDR. The TDR one looks really blooming nice - solid bracketry etc. Hopefully UK based installers and support...
It's arrived...
Private plate needs to come off - paperwork is with dvla, just waiting on new logbook. Drove back from friendly mot centre on trade plates.
First things first, a decent clean and check over.
Cost centre three approves, although is sad that 'Lightening McQueen', my GTM, will be going.
Starting well:
Wheels need a refurb (I bought these new for my Eunos, the first set in Europe. In the intervening time they've been owned by three friends, and the centre caps have gone awol) - bought some dremel scotchbrite drums, they don't last long so will be ordering some wet n dry sheets.
Front wing needs replacing, and offside sill needs attention:
Also, now it's had all the filler filled polish removed, seventeen year old paint in desperate need of a full correction polish (handy I spent a fortune on a full kit at FoS then!). Will be held off until the bodywork is done by the MX5 Restorer.
Everyone loves a list!
Foamectomy done as temporary improvement until I've tried some different seats (more importantly, my OH has - she has a genetic condition effecting her joints so needs additional support to ensure her hips don't dislocate (a daily occurrence)). No pics, as it's a bloody boring job!
Few questions:
Is the mk2.5 console a direct replacement or do I need any other bits?
Driver's window doesn't work, and can be manually pushed/pulled up and down. Had the door card off and the cable is hooked up, when the switch in depressed there's a whirring sound but no movement - any clues?
Gaz Gold Pro - they've been messed with by a 'normal' garage to prevent grounding on speed bumps. As a result, the ride height is 325mm rear, 320mm front, but on going over a bump the suspension 'collapses' very quickly. Thought is that the rebound damping has been wound right down, and so the shock isn't extending back quick enough. Any guide on how to get them back into a 'typical' starting setup for ride height and damping?
Best discs/pads for front and rear? Fast road and very occasionally track use...
Aim is to get the simple things on the list done before the 20th (it'll be tough, mental week at work ahead, a week's holiday in Norfolk, two kids and a missus to keep amused, etc.!). Off to Gareth in the morning for full alignment and body/chassis check, then up to Brackley to meet up.
Oh, and have decided rotrex, but waiting on the new kits to be released from Jackson Racing and TDR. The TDR one looks really blooming nice - solid bracketry etc. Hopefully UK based installers and support...
If you want an Eaton M45, then rather than checking eBay actually visit a Mini specialist and ask for one with a knackered power take-off.
I got mine for half what was being asked on eBay by doing this.
The Cooper S uses a power take-off from the back of the supercharger to drive the waterpump, but the bush that supports the reduction gears inside can't be replaced to if it goes, the whole blower is 'scrap' as far as the Mini is concerned. I'm sure a friendly Mini specialist will have a few blowers with knackered power take-offs lying about that they'd be willing to let go for peanuts. Just remove the back panel and remove what's left and Robert's your aunty's live-in-lover
I got mine for half what was being asked on eBay by doing this.
The Cooper S uses a power take-off from the back of the supercharger to drive the waterpump, but the bush that supports the reduction gears inside can't be replaced to if it goes, the whole blower is 'scrap' as far as the Mini is concerned. I'm sure a friendly Mini specialist will have a few blowers with knackered power take-offs lying about that they'd be willing to let go for peanuts. Just remove the back panel and remove what's left and Robert's your aunty's live-in-lover
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