Corrosion warranty used MX5
Discussion
I have a gorgeous two owner 2000 reg MX5 icon I am about to prepare for sale. It will have all that is necessary done to rectify any of the usual corrosion issues to the same standards that I would apply to the factory prototype E Type I have here for s shell build. I will be happy to give a full warranty on my corrosion repairs to the car, for a pretty extended period with the same owner. So what are other specialists doing, and what do the buyers expect?
I think Gareth - MX5 Restorer offers some kind of warranty/guarantee on welding work he does on MX5s. I'd expect that warranty to only be on his work though, offering any sort of guarantee on the complete car is asking for trouble as rust can pop up in all kinds of unexpected places. You wouldn't want to weld a sill then find someone claiming you have to fix their rusty fuel tank for example.
I'm not aware of any car dealer/seller offering any sort of corrosion warranty on these cars. Probably because they know it's such a mine-field. The best you can hope for is buying from somewhere expensive like Goodwood Sportscars and knowing that they cherish their reputation and will make good wherever they can.
I'm not aware of any car dealer/seller offering any sort of corrosion warranty on these cars. Probably because they know it's such a mine-field. The best you can hope for is buying from somewhere expensive like Goodwood Sportscars and knowing that they cherish their reputation and will make good wherever they can.
Cherishing their reputation is a nice expression, and I suppose that's it really, I have my business, love the cars and their owners but am not a huge fan of the motor trade as a whole. I'm tempted to make all the pics of this car public maybe through icloud sharing in order to show its preparation for sale, I tend to photograph all the client work for their viewing only, everything here is someone's cherished car whether a TVR or MX5, there is no fast fit work going on
Its admirable you want to offer corrosion warranty, but the cynic in me thinks that you'd need to then sell the car at a high price to a) cover the work you'll do, and b) protect against claims during whatever period you offer. The trouble is:
- Mk2's are common as muck and cheap as chips, and arguably one of the least loved models (not considered purist as Mk1's, or as modern as Mk3's)
- They are massively prone to rust - not just on the sills, but also the front suspension mounts (but really anywhere)
- The Mk4 is weeks away and i assume Mk3 prices will take a tumble.
Im saying all this as the owner of a 1999 Mk2 thats been my sole car for 13 years, so dont think i have some sort of hatred for them
I just dont think it makes good business sense on an mx5 (though of course it does on e-types and the other marques you might work on)
As an aside, we actually have two Mk2's in the household, and we've used RA Vehicle Repairs (down your road) several times in the past few years for both rust repair and occasional accident damage. I assume you know John and he will vouch for the fact he has an MX5 in about once a week for rust repair.
Ballpark - what would you be expecting to sell the car for once you had fully prepared it?
- Mk2's are common as muck and cheap as chips, and arguably one of the least loved models (not considered purist as Mk1's, or as modern as Mk3's)
- They are massively prone to rust - not just on the sills, but also the front suspension mounts (but really anywhere)
- The Mk4 is weeks away and i assume Mk3 prices will take a tumble.
Im saying all this as the owner of a 1999 Mk2 thats been my sole car for 13 years, so dont think i have some sort of hatred for them
I just dont think it makes good business sense on an mx5 (though of course it does on e-types and the other marques you might work on)As an aside, we actually have two Mk2's in the household, and we've used RA Vehicle Repairs (down your road) several times in the past few years for both rust repair and occasional accident damage. I assume you know John and he will vouch for the fact he has an MX5 in about once a week for rust repair.
Ballpark - what would you be expecting to sell the car for once you had fully prepared it?
Agree with Daddycool ^^.
Offering a warranty against rust on an older vehicle is like betting the Titanic would never sink!
Say problems did arise - how far would your warranty go - replacement vehicle whilst the problem's resolved, consequential loss and if, as would no doubt be inevitable, the rust problem is greater under the surface are you going to rectify that?
Altogether too many potential problems.
Cheers, Pewe.
Offering a warranty against rust on an older vehicle is like betting the Titanic would never sink!
Say problems did arise - how far would your warranty go - replacement vehicle whilst the problem's resolved, consequential loss and if, as would no doubt be inevitable, the rust problem is greater under the surface are you going to rectify that?
Altogether too many potential problems.
Cheers, Pewe.
Interesting. Some of Johns MX5s have been subcontracted to me, he doesn't set out to be a restorer, he runs a body shop. If i do one here it won't leave here with the design problems still in the rear quarter, I make my own panel and put a decent drain in it. With s clients car I will stand by the restoration work if I'm allowed to do it properly. If the car is a really nice sales car then it'll get done properly anyway, photographed all the way through, and if the new owner carries on having it serviced here then I'll happily carry out any rectification work free, however long they own it for. I have just had a visit from a chap with a VW T4 camper who wants the screen frame rust done with a long warranty, and that's fine by me- but some clients won't pay, this chap sees the value, so that's the right kind of target client for my MX5
pewe said:
Agree with Daddycool ^^.
Offering a warranty against rust on an older vehicle is like betting the Titanic would never sink!
Say problems did arise - how far would your warranty go - replacement vehicle whilst the problem's resolved, consequential loss and if, as would no doubt be inevitable, the rust problem is greater under the surface are you going to rectify that?
Altogether too many potential problems.
Cheers, Pewe.
There is a little implication there that if the rust is deeper below the surface, then I'll cover it up?! Not going to happen, the only way to give a warranty is to cut the rust out. Imagine how awkward it would be for me if my E Type owner contacted me having had a bare shell build to say that rust had come out - would make me look a bit stupid - where I have to be careful is when the customer won't allow a full strip then sells the car as having had a full restoration, so I restrict the trade work I do, and watch out for speculators masquerading as private collectors, had two of those in the past year!Offering a warranty against rust on an older vehicle is like betting the Titanic would never sink!
Say problems did arise - how far would your warranty go - replacement vehicle whilst the problem's resolved, consequential loss and if, as would no doubt be inevitable, the rust problem is greater under the surface are you going to rectify that?
Altogether too many potential problems.
Cheers, Pewe.
SportsCarShop said:
pewe said:
Agree with Daddycool ^^.
Offering a warranty against rust on an older vehicle is like betting the Titanic would never sink!
Say problems did arise - how far would your warranty go - replacement vehicle whilst the problem's resolved, consequential loss and if, as would no doubt be inevitable, the rust problem is greater under the surface are you going to rectify that?
Altogether too many potential problems.
Cheers, Pewe.
There is a little implication there that if the rust is deeper below the surface, then I'll cover it up?! Not going to happen, the only way to give a warranty is to cut the rust out. Imagine how awkward it would be for me if my E Type owner contacted me having had a bare shell build to say that rust had come out - would make me look a bit stupid - where I have to be careful is when the customer won't allow a full strip then sells the car as having had a full restoration, so I restrict the trade work I do, and watch out for speculators masquerading as private collectors, had two of those in the past year!Offering a warranty against rust on an older vehicle is like betting the Titanic would never sink!
Say problems did arise - how far would your warranty go - replacement vehicle whilst the problem's resolved, consequential loss and if, as would no doubt be inevitable, the rust problem is greater under the surface are you going to rectify that?
Altogether too many potential problems.
Cheers, Pewe.
To answer your initial question, I don't know what other dealers do, but buying a car of a certain age, I'd be surprised if I didn't have a problem or two. Of course, if you are offering a higher level of service, then I'd expect less problems and to pay more for it in the first place. There are a few specialists, people like Goodwood Sportscars and Dandy Cars (if they still exist), but their reputaion is built more on sourcing good cars, then selling restored/tidied ones.
Edited by VladD on Thursday 19th February 12:27
I like the way you are talking and can only be thankful we have people like you who are prepared to go the extra mile to make sure the job is done properly.
What DC was saying however is that, MX5s are still pretty common - the biggest selling sportscar of all time - so there are loads out there at very cheap prices. Mine is a spotless 2001 Mk2.5 with no rust (that I have found) but it is still probably worth no more than around £2500. If you have one with a bit of rust it's often cheaper to sell it as it is or break it and just buy a different one rather than get it repaired. The only people who might pay over the odds to get a really good job done are those who plan to keep their car for the long term.
So yes, if you can find the right customer then there is a market for what you are proposing. It's just that with MX5s, that market might not be that large yet. I expect that market might well grow in the coming years though as clean MX5s will be getting hard to find.
What DC was saying however is that, MX5s are still pretty common - the biggest selling sportscar of all time - so there are loads out there at very cheap prices. Mine is a spotless 2001 Mk2.5 with no rust (that I have found) but it is still probably worth no more than around £2500. If you have one with a bit of rust it's often cheaper to sell it as it is or break it and just buy a different one rather than get it repaired. The only people who might pay over the odds to get a really good job done are those who plan to keep their car for the long term.
So yes, if you can find the right customer then there is a market for what you are proposing. It's just that with MX5s, that market might not be that large yet. I expect that market might well grow in the coming years though as clean MX5s will be getting hard to find.
I'm sure no offence was meant, what's good is to have a nice lively discussion. Interesting yesterday to jump from TVR Chimaera to MX5 then to TVR Griffith 500. Wish the TVR chassis was a stiff as the MX, wish the MX had a more interesting engine note! Suspension is similar layout but MX usually works....! Measured that way the MX really is extraordinary value for money
You're correct I wasn't doubting the quality of workmanship.
Sure your E type owner would feel pretty miffed if he encounters rust after a bare metal resto.
However on a partial resto replacing rusted panels in one area in no way guarantees it won't happen in others.
Let's face it there is no way a steel car can be 100% rust proofed.
Even new cars have been known to rust.
Years ago I bought a new Lancia Thema turbo only to have a rear passenger door sprout a tennis ball sized rust patch under the paintwork after 3 months.
At time of purchase the Dealer swore there were no longer rust concerns with Lancia cars as they rust-proofed them and even specified Ziebart treatment annually....
Cheers, Pewe.
Sure your E type owner would feel pretty miffed if he encounters rust after a bare metal resto.
However on a partial resto replacing rusted panels in one area in no way guarantees it won't happen in others.
Let's face it there is no way a steel car can be 100% rust proofed.
Even new cars have been known to rust.
Years ago I bought a new Lancia Thema turbo only to have a rear passenger door sprout a tennis ball sized rust patch under the paintwork after 3 months.
At time of purchase the Dealer swore there were no longer rust concerns with Lancia cars as they rust-proofed them and even specified Ziebart treatment annually....
Cheers, Pewe.
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