How much difference will decent coilovers really make?

[kazman]

Considering some good spec (Meister R) coilovers on my NA1.6 (otherwise standard except for uprated pads and some additional lower bracing... and some semi slicks).

My question is just how much faster will they make it on track? The existing suspension always feels fairly decent, but does give some serious roll through the corners on the track days I have done. I don't actually have an issue with the roll in itself, and it still feels lovely and pointy (had a fast road geometry set up carried out). Would fitting coilovers (and having it all set up again) literally transform my imaginary lap times? Or am I just as well off spending the money on track tuition etc?

Thanks.

[Henry Fiddleton]

Are you not getting massive amounts of roll on the semi slicks?

I run R888s and HSD coilovers - the roll is ok, but the car for example bottoms out on paddock hill. ( Fast road spring rates).

Pre coilover, the roll made the car very difficult to handle, lots of "yaw" and basic weight transfer was tricky.

The plus side I could ride the kurbs easily ;-)

[kazman]

Thanks for the reply. Yes I do get pretty major roll, but I don't fully appreciate how detrimental this is to lap times. Does less body roll = better wheel geometry through the corner = more grip? And if so should I just stiffen up the ARB's (don't get huge pitch when braking and don't have sufficient acceleration to unbalance car front to back.

Sorry if this is becoming more about racing geometry. What I really want o know is whether spending as much on the coilovers as the car cost me in the 1st place is "sensible" or whether I should invest in more track tuition first. Or invest in arbs as a cheaper alternative to prevent roll and still allow tuning front to back for understeer / oversteer characteristics.
What I don't want to put on is cheap nasty coilovers that ruin the ride.

[skinny]

unless the roll is excessive and making your wheel alignment go all funny through the corners, you probably won't gain a lot from minimising roll, as this will increase weight transfer and therefore loses you ultimate grip. Having said that, i've put uprated ARB's on mine and find them fine especially for the money.

see if you can get a ride in a similar car to yours with upgraded suspension, or try to follow guys on track that have upgraded and see where if anywhere you lose out.

i'd imagine the extra control you have will probably make you faster. not sure if you'd have any more fun tho...

[J-Tuner]

I run Meister R's and they ride better than standard on full soft. On full hard they were good on track but i personally i probably would have liked a bit stiffer, but thats the compromise you make.

Theres still some body roll but i don't think it slows the car down much tbh.

[Kozy]

On semi slicks I would indeed look to fit stiffer suspension to cope, but I think a better solution is to fit less grippy tyres. It's cheaper (both the cost of tyres and less requirement for trick suspension) and it's more fun!

skinny said:

unless the roll is excessive and making your wheel alignment go all funny through the corners, you probably won't gain a lot from minimising roll, as this will increase weight transfer and therefore loses you ultimate grip.

How does minimising roll increase weight transfer?

Stiffening the suspension may lose you grip through increased 'contact patch load variation' but that's something else entirely.

[kazman]

Cheers for the input. Not a bad take on the situation that (I like the frugality of it). Maybe when I have killed these semi slicks I will revert to a more conventional tyre type. One of my favourite things about the RSR is how good it is in the damp tbh. And in those situations (where the playing field is significantly levelled) I'm not sure slightly more "snappy" handling characteristics of a firmer set up are beneficial anyway.
I will keep pondering...

[skinny]

Kozy said:

On semi slicks I would indeed look to fit stiffer suspension to cope, but I think a better solution is to fit less grippy tyres. It's cheaper (both the cost of tyres and less requirement for trick suspension) and it's more fun!

skinny said:

unless the roll is excessive and making your wheel alignment go all funny through the corners, you probably won't gain a lot from minimising roll, as this will increase weight transfer and therefore loses you ultimate grip.

How does minimising roll increase weight transfer?

Stiffening the suspension may lose you grip through increased 'contact patch load variation' but that's something else entirely.

Sorry should have said it increases the rate of weight transfer. Can make the handling more snappy. I think if the response of the car in corner entry and through chicanes is ok you probably don't need to get new suspension. I've seen some very quick cars on stock set-up and grippy tyres. I wouldn't consider it a priority anyway

Edited by skinny on Monday 8th September 21:50

[kazman]

Many thanks.