Do I need a roll bar for MSV trackday?

[Alapeno]

Just come to booking a novice day at Cadwell through MSV, double checked the T&C's and came across this...

Open top cars will only be permitted when fitted with a full MSA/FIA approved roll safety device, or other road homologated roll over safety device. Road homologated vehicles which do not have the above by virtue of their manufactured date, but which are still in standard road homologated specification are also permitted.

The car we're taking is the MK1 which currently has a style bar on (could always remove and fit a cabin brace instead).

I've seen plenty of MX5's on track without any rollover protection though so never thought it an issue.

I know it's extremely unlikely I'll roll an mx5 but don't want to turn up and not be allowed on. I'm assuming the second sentence might apply, with it being a '93 car - "virtue of manufactured date".

Going to give them a ring in the morning but thought I'd ask here first and see if anyone can shed some light on it.

Cheers.


Said style bar:

[furtive]

I would have thought this would cover your car

[quote]Road homologated vehicles which do not have the above by virtue of their manufactured date, but which are still in standard road homologated specification are also permitted
[/quote]

I've never heard of an MX5 being denied access to a trackday due to lack of rollover protection. I know other trackday companies insist on one if you are running slicks

[VladD]

That's the same bar that I've got. First time I've seen that on a car other than mine.

[Flatinfourth]

It's all down to luck, you decide
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfWjXzvVoL0

[Alapeno]

Flatinfourth said:

It's all down to luck, you decide
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfWjXzvVoL0

Wasn't really worried until you posted that. It's a novice day, with no racing for direct comparison to the vid.

[furtive]

Flatinfourth said:

It's all down to luck, you decide
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfWjXzvVoL0

That's racing which is an entirely different kettle of fish. Car to car contact *should* be impossible on a trackday with clear overtaking rules (by consent, not in the braking zone or round corners, etc)

[Flatinfourth]

furtive said:

Flatinfourth said:

It's all down to luck, you decide
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfWjXzvVoL0

That's racing which is an entirely different kettle of fish. Car to car contact *should* be impossible on a trackday with clear overtaking rules (by consent, not in the braking zone or round corners, etc)

I'm afraid it's not an entirely different kettle of fish at all, as a novice making a simple mistake could easily create a similar mess if they are unlucky. Surely no-one should go to a track day with a significant risk of killing themselves through somebody elses minor error.

[skibum]

I've done a day at Bedford with MSV in my NB before I fitted my roll bar. No issues from the organisers perspective. However, running without one is a decision you'll have to be comfortable with yourself.

[tr7v8]

I did a track day at Brands in the Boxster with no roll bar. Admittedly a couple of years ago.

[PATTERNPART]

I did one at Brands a couple of years ago in my NA with a hardtop attached.

[J-Tuner]

I just went to bedord on monday and i dont have a roll bar in atm. Been to 2 other track days and never had an issue.

Style bars wont offer any protection so dont make the mistake of thinking they are a safety device

[Flatinfourth]

J-Tuner said:

I just went to bedord on monday and i dont have a roll bar in atm. Been to 2 other track days and never had an issue.

Style bars wont offer any protection so dont make the mistake of thinking they are a safety device

Indeed,quite the reverse. the bar will break from it's mountings and join the fun thrashing about in the sandwich with the driver's head and a collapsed windscreen!

[skinny]

i've been sideways at 80 on the grass at castle combe. never felt in any danger of rolling. and if i had, i strongly doubt my roll bar would have done much to help.

to answer the question, every trackday i've been on there have been 5's without roll protection and no issue.

[rovermorris999]

Not seen a car roll at a track day yet. It's more dangerous driving to the track.

[J-Tuner]

Its a very rare occurrence but its always still a possibility so you need to still keep it in mind and respect the track. Take that M3 that dug in and flipped at bedford last month. He was just unlucky - thats one of the safest tracks to go on!

[Alapeno]

If I was to fit a roll bar, anyone know where I could pick one up cheaper than new?

Have looked on Nutz where they sometimes come up for sale and ebay but they seem to be a bit thin on the ground.

[Flatinfourth]

rovermorris999 said:

Not seen a car roll at a track day yet. It's more dangerous driving to the track.

That's the point really. A novice can come to this forum and gain from each individual's personal life experience around circuits and track days. Yours is one end of the spectrum, and could be based on carefully policed and very well ordered events where gentleman drivers drive properly. Not all the events are like that, and as a consequence a novice can be a lamb to the slaughter.

Also there is no great hand that will lift you to safety when you realise too late that you have lifted mid Craners, and are now driving straight to the scene of quite a large accident. I've seen a one week old Focus RS rolled to destruction there, with two pretty knocked about guys inside just wearing seat belts.

I would argue that the reason we do track days is to drive a car to the limit, which can inadvertantly mean finding oneself the other side of that limit!

Edited by Flatinfourth on Thursday 26th June 18:37

[rovermorris999]

Flatinfourth said:

That's the point really. A novice can come to this forum and gain from each individual's personal life experience around circuits and track days. Yours is one end of the spectrum, and could be based on carefully policed and very well ordered events where gentleman drivers drive properly. Not all the events are like that, and as a consequence a novice can be a lamb to the slaughter.

Also there is no great hand that will lift you to safety when you realise too late that you have lifted mid Craners, and are now driving straight to the scene of quite a large accident. I've seen a one week old Focus RS rolled to destruction there, with two pretty knocked about guys inside just wearing seat belts.

I would argue that the reason we do track days is to drive a car to the limit, which can inadvertantly mean finding oneself the other side of that limit!

Edited by Flatinfourth on Thursday 26th June 18:37

The point is that it is a vanishly rare occurrence on a non-competitive track day. I'm not saying don't have a roll bar but not having one wouldn't stop me going on track.

[Alapeno]

Personally I'd be fairly confident of my own abilities on the day, having gained a few 'awards' over the years. It's really my Mum's pride and joy (my younger brother, hence the novice day) I'm worried about damaging.

[Flatinfourth]

rovermorris999 said:

Flatinfourth said:

That's the point really. A novice can come to this forum and gain from each individual's personal life experience around circuits and track days. Yours is one end of the spectrum, and could be based on carefully policed and very well ordered events where gentleman drivers drive properly. Not all the events are like that, and as a consequence a novice can be a lamb to the slaughter.

Also there is no great hand that will lift you to safety when you realise too late that you have lifted mid Craners, and are now driving straight to the scene of quite a large accident. I've seen a one week old Focus RS rolled to destruction there, with two pretty knocked about guys inside just wearing seat belts.

I would argue that the reason we do track days is to drive a car to the limit, which can inadvertantly mean finding oneself the other side of that limit!

Edited by Flatinfourth on Thursday 26th June 18:37

The point is that it is a vanishly rare occurrence on a non-competitive track day. I'm not saying don't have a roll bar but not having one wouldn't stop me going on track.

Indeed, me neither, but based on complete awareness of the potential risk.