Cost of track conversion/tweaks? I'm attached!
Discussion
I've got a very sweet driving Mk1 which was owned my dad before me and has a bit of sentimental value.
Question is what sort of money would you want to spend on an MX5 to turn it into a track toy or is it better just to buy one that's been tweaked already? Would it be risky to drive them hard on a track without a cage?
Just curious as it pains me to get rid of the thing and I am thinking an MX5 is great for the track as compared to the other end of the scale with something like a GT3, I could learn to control it within my ability and drive on the limit. I also spent £700 or so getting it through the MOT with new tyres/brakes etc last year.
I used to track my Boxster once in a while and was thinking how good an MX5 would be for this kind of thing as the parts are so cheap?
Maybe I just need to let go and accept I can always get into another MK1 in the future but I think I'm emotionally attached - funny as getting rid of other cars hasn't been like this. I have far too much fun in my MX5 and am thinking I may miss it when my incoming M135i comes!
Question is what sort of money would you want to spend on an MX5 to turn it into a track toy or is it better just to buy one that's been tweaked already? Would it be risky to drive them hard on a track without a cage?
Just curious as it pains me to get rid of the thing and I am thinking an MX5 is great for the track as compared to the other end of the scale with something like a GT3, I could learn to control it within my ability and drive on the limit. I also spent £700 or so getting it through the MOT with new tyres/brakes etc last year.
I used to track my Boxster once in a while and was thinking how good an MX5 would be for this kind of thing as the parts are so cheap?
Maybe I just need to let go and accept I can always get into another MK1 in the future but I think I'm emotionally attached - funny as getting rid of other cars hasn't been like this. I have far too much fun in my MX5 and am thinking I may miss it when my incoming M135i comes!
As above, do the cheap stuff first and work up from there. All you need to start is tyres, brakes and alignment.
Tyres: Anything really as long as there is enough meat on them so that you can get home safely/legally (unless you can take a spare set of wheels with you).
Brakes: again, just make sure there is enough meat on them. When they need replacing replace with some decent track pads, Axxis ULT, Yellowstuff, Mintex 1144, Stoptech etc.
Alignment: Take it to a specialist.
No need to spend much on roll cage. TR Lane do a good rear cage for around £250 if you can fit yourself or they can fit for you for a little more. This isn't a requirement for a track day though. It's probably a good idea long term (stiffens the chassis too) but it wouldn't stop me going out on track without one.
Suspension. You are quickly going to find that stock suspension is fun on track but isn't particularly quick and rolls too much. It'll be worse if it's the stock Mk1 Bilsteins (despite popular opinion).
Bucket seats. The stock seats offer no shoulder support at all. Google "foamectomy" - removing some foam from the base and back of the seat will give a bit better support but still no shoulder support which is what you really need. It will be a good start though and free.
Harnesses. Do not fit harnesses until you have at least a rear roll cage. Without a roll cage you are better off with the standard seat belt.
Tyres: Anything really as long as there is enough meat on them so that you can get home safely/legally (unless you can take a spare set of wheels with you).
Brakes: again, just make sure there is enough meat on them. When they need replacing replace with some decent track pads, Axxis ULT, Yellowstuff, Mintex 1144, Stoptech etc.
Alignment: Take it to a specialist.
No need to spend much on roll cage. TR Lane do a good rear cage for around £250 if you can fit yourself or they can fit for you for a little more. This isn't a requirement for a track day though. It's probably a good idea long term (stiffens the chassis too) but it wouldn't stop me going out on track without one.
Suspension. You are quickly going to find that stock suspension is fun on track but isn't particularly quick and rolls too much. It'll be worse if it's the stock Mk1 Bilsteins (despite popular opinion).
Bucket seats. The stock seats offer no shoulder support at all. Google "foamectomy" - removing some foam from the base and back of the seat will give a bit better support but still no shoulder support which is what you really need. It will be a good start though and free.
Harnesses. Do not fit harnesses until you have at least a rear roll cage. Without a roll cage you are better off with the standard seat belt.
Pretty much what lazza said. TR Lane bar isn't terribly expensive, and not too bad to self fit. Decent pads / fluids, you'll be amazed how well everything stands up; the fact the car is light really helps.
FWIW I took a Mk1 in part ex for my boxster; tracked the boxster quite a bit and loved it, but the MX5 is surprisingly quick, and every bit as much fun. Very different character - the boxster needed to be driven more neatly, the 5 is quite happy to be sideways. I can also get 4 tyres for the 5 for less than 1 boxster front - win all round.
Basically, just do it!
FWIW I took a Mk1 in part ex for my boxster; tracked the boxster quite a bit and loved it, but the MX5 is surprisingly quick, and every bit as much fun. Very different character - the boxster needed to be driven more neatly, the 5 is quite happy to be sideways. I can also get 4 tyres for the 5 for less than 1 boxster front - win all round.
Basically, just do it!
If you are looking at up-grading a standard car whats been said above, plus one of these makes spirited driving a lot better for not a lot of money....
http://www.cg-lock.co.uk/
We've used it on track-days and Autosolos and it certainly improves the standard lap and diagonal set-up.
In terms of cost you'll find buying a car already fitted with all the whistles and bells a lot cheaper than doing it yourself.
Turbo/supercharged cars go for £3-4k and if its been done properly is a lot of bangs for your bucks!
HTH.
Cheers, Pewe.
http://www.cg-lock.co.uk/
We've used it on track-days and Autosolos and it certainly improves the standard lap and diagonal set-up.
In terms of cost you'll find buying a car already fitted with all the whistles and bells a lot cheaper than doing it yourself.
Turbo/supercharged cars go for £3-4k and if its been done properly is a lot of bangs for your bucks!
HTH.
Cheers, Pewe.
TR Lane roll bar £300 http://m.trlanefabs.co.uk/ try to get a second hand one
Seat £150
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/seats
Harness £60 http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/harnesses...
Seat £150
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/seats
Harness £60 http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/harnesses...
pewe said:
If you are looking at up-grading a standard car whats been said above, plus one of these makes spirited driving a lot better for not a lot of money....
http://www.cg-lock.co.uk/
We've used it on track-days and Autosolos and it certainly improves the standard lap and diagonal set-up.
I've got one of these fitted to my daily. Certainly a lot better than a standard belt, but nowhere near as good as a 4-point harness.http://www.cg-lock.co.uk/
We've used it on track-days and Autosolos and it certainly improves the standard lap and diagonal set-up.
Costs are pretty much all detailed here on the blog for my MX5, which lives on the track.
It's pretty quick around the track now and will hassle some sports cars (996 C2, E46 M3 etc) around a small track like Brands. Cost in that blog includes two brake overhauls though, remember do it right do it once - use the best parts straight away if you're going to be tracking it a lot.
I think the Meisters are a little under damped for track work, waiting to see what the new 2014 SportDrive kit is like. I'd wait for that if you're looking to purchase coilovers.
It's pretty quick around the track now and will hassle some sports cars (996 C2, E46 M3 etc) around a small track like Brands. Cost in that blog includes two brake overhauls though, remember do it right do it once - use the best parts straight away if you're going to be tracking it a lot.
I think the Meisters are a little under damped for track work, waiting to see what the new 2014 SportDrive kit is like. I'd wait for that if you're looking to purchase coilovers.
To the OP: The more I think about it, the more I think you should just track it as it stands, and see. There is an argument for a rollover bar, especially at tracks with gravel traps and the like, possibly less so at airfields. Otherwise, what you want from the car is very subjective - see where you think the weak links are. Although it's going to lean a lot as standard, the camber control is pretty good, it's possible to have a heap of fun in a completely stock car.
911p: Interested in your comments about the Meister's; Mine's an S-ltd, and I *detest* the bilsteins, hence looking at options. More spring would prop it up better on track, possibly less damping (or just better matched to the spring) as I understand it the billies are very overdamped in compression (but not rebound), hence the awful ride over bumps/on road.
What makes you say they (meisters) are under-damped on track? I'd have thought damping played a lot less of a significant part on track (less potholes) / only really noticable in faster transitions rather than the more steady state mid-corner stuff?
911p: Interested in your comments about the Meister's; Mine's an S-ltd, and I *detest* the bilsteins, hence looking at options. More spring would prop it up better on track, possibly less damping (or just better matched to the spring) as I understand it the billies are very overdamped in compression (but not rebound), hence the awful ride over bumps/on road.
What makes you say they (meisters) are under-damped on track? I'd have thought damping played a lot less of a significant part on track (less potholes) / only really noticable in faster transitions rather than the more steady state mid-corner stuff?
Yup, pretty much what has been said above.
Take it out stock, see how you find it, spot the cars weaknesses and take it from there.
Mine when out stock twice, and then I began to track modify it.
Enjoy learning to eek out every single mph through the corners - Mx5s make you a good track driver ;-)
Take it out stock, see how you find it, spot the cars weaknesses and take it from there.
Mine when out stock twice, and then I began to track modify it.
Enjoy learning to eek out every single mph through the corners - Mx5s make you a good track driver ;-)
Let me share this with you. I bought a really tidy Mk1 1.6 a couple of summers back. It had worn standard shocks and aftermarket hard springs which were not matched well to the shocks. It also had some cheapy ditch-finders fitted all round. It cost me 1300 bucks.
I have previously owned a 5.0 Chimaera, a 2.0 VX Westfield and done a bit of single seater racing.
I took the Eunos on a trackday as was and was simply amazed at how good it was. Even with the crappy tyres and suspension, it killed the Chimaera around corners and wasn't far behind the Westy.
Fast forward six months and I've got some good coil-overs, T1Rs all round and a TR Lane roll bar. But the thing that made the biggest improvement in one go was having the alignment done. Night and day.
So by now its bloody awesome around corners, but not too quick under power. Cue a turbo kit and some more development (costs all in are brushing £3K including car. A few months on, it's just shy of 260 horses, amazing around corners and out-accelerates a 5 litre TVR up to a ton. (AND IT'S GOT POP UP LIGHTS!!!!!!!)
The (potential) problem with buying a car that's already been done is knowing what's been fitted to it. Lots are advertised with coil-overs that are pi$$ poor quality and not particularly adjustable.
It sounds like you've got a nice car to develop. You'll be surprised how capable it is.
I have previously owned a 5.0 Chimaera, a 2.0 VX Westfield and done a bit of single seater racing.
I took the Eunos on a trackday as was and was simply amazed at how good it was. Even with the crappy tyres and suspension, it killed the Chimaera around corners and wasn't far behind the Westy.
Fast forward six months and I've got some good coil-overs, T1Rs all round and a TR Lane roll bar. But the thing that made the biggest improvement in one go was having the alignment done. Night and day.
So by now its bloody awesome around corners, but not too quick under power. Cue a turbo kit and some more development (costs all in are brushing £3K including car. A few months on, it's just shy of 260 horses, amazing around corners and out-accelerates a 5 litre TVR up to a ton. (AND IT'S GOT POP UP LIGHTS!!!!!!!)
The (potential) problem with buying a car that's already been done is knowing what's been fitted to it. Lots are advertised with coil-overs that are pi$$ poor quality and not particularly adjustable.
It sounds like you've got a nice car to develop. You'll be surprised how capable it is.
The other problem with buying one that's already sorted is that you miss out on the journey. Improving a car step by step, driving it on the road and on track between each step, you grow with the car and the car grows with you. After each step you can feel exactly what that change has done and how it has changed it from how it was before. It is of course the expensive route but it's much more fun than just buying an end product.
Thanks for all the replies guys. Great forum community here. I will bookmark this thread for the tips for when I come back in time....
I've thought about it some more and I just can't really keep it due to space, which is very annoying. I wish I had another garage space as where I live I can only get 1 parking permit easily for the street. I figure I can always get back into one in the future but I'm going to have to sell it for now - pressure from the other half to get "4 seats" pushed me to get the m135i.
I'm pretty convinced the MK1 MX5 is probably my favourite car I've owned (I've had a Boxster and currently a 360 spider) and I've never been so sentimental about having to let a car go!
I need to move to house with a garage but they don't come cheap in London.
I've thought about it some more and I just can't really keep it due to space, which is very annoying. I wish I had another garage space as where I live I can only get 1 parking permit easily for the street. I figure I can always get back into one in the future but I'm going to have to sell it for now - pressure from the other half to get "4 seats" pushed me to get the m135i.
I'm pretty convinced the MK1 MX5 is probably my favourite car I've owned (I've had a Boxster and currently a 360 spider) and I've never been so sentimental about having to let a car go!
I need to move to house with a garage but they don't come cheap in London.
CaptiV8ted said:
Let me share this with you. I bought a really tidy Mk1 1.6 a couple of summers back. It had worn standard shocks and aftermarket hard springs which were not matched well to the shocks. It also had some cheapy ditch-finders fitted all round. It cost me 1300 bucks.
I have previously owned a 5.0 Chimaera, a 2.0 VX Westfield and done a bit of single seater racing.
I took the Eunos on a trackday as was and was simply amazed at how good it was. Even with the crappy tyres and suspension, it killed the Chimaera around corners and wasn't far behind the Westy.
Fast forward six months and I've got some good coil-overs, T1Rs all round and a TR Lane roll bar. But the thing that made the biggest improvement in one go was having the alignment done. Night and day.
So by now its bloody awesome around corners, but not too quick under power. Cue a turbo kit and some more development (costs all in are brushing £3K including car. A few months on, it's just shy of 260 horses, amazing around corners and out-accelerates a 5 litre TVR up to a ton. (AND IT'S GOT POP UP LIGHTS!!!!!!!)
The (potential) problem with buying a car that's already been done is knowing what's been fitted to it. Lots are advertised with coil-overs that are pi$$ poor quality and not particularly adjustable.
It sounds like you've got a nice car to develop. You'll be surprised how capable it is.
This is pretty much exactly my thinking! In a world of "YOU NEED MORE HORSE POWER" (do we?) they are just brilliant!I have previously owned a 5.0 Chimaera, a 2.0 VX Westfield and done a bit of single seater racing.
I took the Eunos on a trackday as was and was simply amazed at how good it was. Even with the crappy tyres and suspension, it killed the Chimaera around corners and wasn't far behind the Westy.
Fast forward six months and I've got some good coil-overs, T1Rs all round and a TR Lane roll bar. But the thing that made the biggest improvement in one go was having the alignment done. Night and day.
So by now its bloody awesome around corners, but not too quick under power. Cue a turbo kit and some more development (costs all in are brushing £3K including car. A few months on, it's just shy of 260 horses, amazing around corners and out-accelerates a 5 litre TVR up to a ton. (AND IT'S GOT POP UP LIGHTS!!!!!!!)
The (potential) problem with buying a car that's already been done is knowing what's been fitted to it. Lots are advertised with coil-overs that are pi$$ poor quality and not particularly adjustable.
It sounds like you've got a nice car to develop. You'll be surprised how capable it is.
boggle said:
The 1.8 Brake conversion is quite easy and cheap to do enabling you to use the 1.8's bigger discs and pads. 
It is, but personally I don't see the need when you're running standard power and road tyres - my 1.6 brakes had a really nice pedal feel (firm and communicative) and never showed any lack of stopping power or hint of fade on road or track.If you're upping the power and/or using sticky tyres there will be more heat to deal with and thats when the bigger brakes become worthwhile. My turbo Mk1 had Mk2.5 sport brakes which stopped it well, but I never managed to get the pedal feel as firm and confidence-inspiring as I wanted on track.
Edited by GravelBen on Saturday 1st March 11:22
upsidedownmark said:
What makes you say they (meisters) are under-damped on track? I'd have thought damping played a lot less of a significant part on track (less potholes) / only really noticable in faster transitions rather than the more steady state mid-corner stuff?
You can feel it, a lot!Video here; bounce bounce bounce through Surtees, then bottoming out every time down Paddock Hill, they're just under damped. For the record I'm running the dampers at 28/30 front and 26/30 rear on this vid.
http://youtu.be/pE0DPsW5ZLo?t=47s
From the outside, need to watch this one in large and HD. See as I brush the kerb the springs are allowed to bounce and it throws the rear of the car a little.
http://youtu.be/u4_vE7n3M_0
It's not just Brands either - bounces around on the exit of the fast left at Snet and also the quick right hander onto the back straight.
http://youtu.be/3Lagt999tK0?t=2m40s
HTH
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