Pilot Sport Cups - really that bad in the rain?

Pilot Sport Cups - really that bad in the rain?

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BlackPrince

Original Poster:

1,271 posts

176 months

Wednesday 16th March 2011
quotequote all
A few CSLs i've been looking at still have the Pilot Sport Cups on them, and after evo journo (and hardman, biker and all around nutter apparently) John Hayman described driving in the rain w/ the Cups as "treacherous" I'm wondering if I should budget for four new tyres when I purchase a CSL shod w/ Pilot Sports.

Yanto

543 posts

215 months

Wednesday 16th March 2011
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BlackPrince said:
A few CSLs i've been looking at still have the Pilot Sport Cups on them, and after evo journo (and hardman, biker and all around nutter apparently) John Hayman described driving in the rain w/ the Cups as "treacherous" I'm wondering if I should budget for four new tyres when I purchase a CSL shod w/ Pilot Sports.
IMO:

Drive to the conditions and they'll be fine.

Drive in the wet as you would with PS2's and you'll be in trouble.

Avoid standing water.

To be fair, if they were that dangerous, they wouldnt be legal.

thumbup

shim

2,050 posts

215 months

Wednesday 16th March 2011
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Homos, the lot of them!

BlackPrince

Original Poster:

1,271 posts

176 months

Thursday 17th March 2011
quotequote all
Yanto said:
IMO:

Drive to the conditions and they'll be fine.

Drive in the wet as you would with PS2's and you'll be in trouble.

Avoid standing water.

To be fair, if they were that dangerous, they wouldnt be legal.

thumbup
When you say "wet" would you mind clarifying that?

In Ireland more often than not , overnight there is rainfall and the ground is still usually a bit damp in the morning. I notice the decrease in grip when I ride my motorcycle to work everyday in these conditions, tho in any car I've ever driven before I wouldn't notice it. I presume that a CSL would still have almost full grip in these conditions or do the Pilot Cups really need a dry hot day to get much grip?


cslgirl

2,215 posts

227 months

Thursday 17th March 2011
quotequote all
Yanto said:
IMO:

Drive to the conditions and they'll be fine.

Drive in the wet as you would with PS2's and you'll be in trouble.

Avoid standing water.

To be fair, if they were that dangerous, they wouldnt be legal.

thumbup
+1

I drove back from Llandow to London on shagged cups and in what I would call, extreme pissing down rain - to the point where I could hardly see in front of me. As long as I didn't do anything silly and was gentle with the throttle/braking/no erratic steering movements, I made it home in one piece and that was still driving at around the M4 speed limit when I could see.

Nords

1,031 posts

238 months

Monday 28th March 2011
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Come as 5mm new, wear fast and need 7 degrees ambient temp to work properly, and the tread pattern is designed to grip on dry days, sooooo they are never going to be great in the wet. That said, they clear a little bit of water, it is just when you are getting rooster trails from everyone else that you have to worry!

People think Jesse Ventura was talking about chewing tobacco in Pedator, but really he was talking about cups.

Edited by Nords on Tuesday 29th March 01:49

threesixty

2,068 posts

210 months

Monday 28th March 2011
quotequote all
BlackPrince said:
A few CSLs i've been looking at still have the Pilot Sport Cups on them, and after evo journo (and hardman, biker and all around nutter apparently) John Hayman described driving in the rain w/ the Cups as "treacherous" I'm wondering if I should budget for four new tyres when I purchase a CSL shod w/ Pilot Sports.
Well you should budget for new tyres regardless, wether you like them or not they'll probably be done in 4-5k miles (and thats assuming they're brand new).

I had cups on my E92 M3 when I bought it, drove in some heavy rain, hit some standing water etc etc and never really had any major issues. If you drive to the conditions they're fine. The only thing that ever worried me was driving the car in the rain and something unexpected happened(ie someone pulling out in front of you) then they could definitely make a bad situation much much worse.

Nords

1,031 posts

238 months

Tuesday 29th March 2011
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E92 cups are actually cup+. This means a compound closer to PS2 than cups and larger rain channels, hence 'proper' cups should be used very carefully in standing water, if the road is just wet, no worries...

drpep

1,760 posts

175 months

Tuesday 29th March 2011
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I'd really like to try out the CSL on cups. Is the wear really that bad?

I've come from a 997 911 C2S and everyone suggested this would eat up tyres (3-4k miles on rears) but I got 9k out of my Pirelli's before sale and they still had +5mm left. It wasn't for lack of trying either, as I wanted to get Michelins on there so wasn't sparing the horses!

This included a couple of laps of the 'ring and an airfield day which saw plenty of sideways action (not particularly skilfully or gracefully done mind you - mainly tank-slappers actually wink

Great Pretender

26,140 posts

221 months

Tuesday 29th March 2011
quotequote all
cslgirl said:
Yanto said:
IMO:

Drive to the conditions and they'll be fine.

Drive in the wet as you would with PS2's and you'll be in trouble.

Avoid standing water.

To be fair, if they were that dangerous, they wouldnt be legal.

thumbup
+1

I drove back from Llandow to London on shagged cups and in what I would call, extreme pissing down rain - to the point where I could hardly see in front of me. As long as I didn't do anything silly and was gentle with the throttle/braking/no erratic steering movements, I made it home in one piece and that was still driving at around the M4 speed limit when I could see.
+2

I've had the Cups fitted all winter and guess what? I'm still alive! party

Incidentally OP, I live in Scotland where our roads become all lovely and greasy during the darker months. The Cups were fine. As said above, if they were 'treacherous' they wouldn't be legal, Don't believe all you read in magazines wink

Oh and incidentally, fitting normal road rubber has a huge impact on the way the car drives. It was designed to wear the Cups and it shows when you fit anything other than the Cups.

drmark

5,113 posts

193 months

Tuesday 29th March 2011
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They are fine in normal wet conditions but can be lethal in heavy rain / standing water. One a very wet motorway in a gt3 that was aquaplaning all over the shop - eventually ended up doing 50mph in the inside line. Now use Toyo R888s which are sooo much better in the wet, but not as good in the dry.

fromage

538 posts

210 months

Wednesday 30th March 2011
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Yup they are fine in the wet and still pretty grippy with some heat in them but throw in any standing water and I used to have massive trouble! (the kind you end up backwards in a tyre wall at Brands only on half throttle on a straight)

BlackPrince

Original Poster:

1,271 posts

176 months

Thursday 31st March 2011
quotequote all
drmark said:
They are fine in normal wet conditions but can be lethal in heavy rain / standing water. One a very wet motorway in a gt3 that was aquaplaning all over the shop - eventually ended up doing 50mph in the inside line. Now use Toyo R888s which are sooo much better in the wet, but not as good in the dry.
If I may ask, how much were the Toyos?

And Great Pretender, perhaps youre the next Loeb but for us mere mortals it seems that words like "lethal" and "treacherous" do indeed apply!

Great Pretender

26,140 posts

221 months

Thursday 31st March 2011
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BlackPrince said:
And Great Pretender, perhaps youre the next Loeb but for us mere mortals it seems that words like "lethal" and "treacherous" do indeed apply!
Not at all. Sure, the car will lose grip if you push it the wet, but it's such a friendly beast to dance with that catching a slide is no more frightening than getting out of bed.

I recall only one instance where the tyres became overwhelmed by surface water, but the car was still controllable.

Honestly, they're really not that bad at all and like I said, I've had them fitted all winter. Indeed, with a bit of heat in them, I'd go as far to say that they grip really rather well in the wet. The GT3 was the same; never had any issues with with P-Zero Corsas it was fitted with and I drove that car up and down the country along rain soaked motorways etc.

The usual internet hysteria has a lot to answer for IMO.

Nords

1,031 posts

238 months

Saturday 2nd April 2011
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Great Pretender said:
+2

I've had the Cups fitted all winter and guess what? I'm still alive! party

Incidentally OP, I live in Scotland where our roads become all lovely and greasy during the darker months. The Cups were fine. As said above, if they were 'treacherous' they wouldn't be legal, Don't believe all you read in magazines wink

Oh and incidentally, fitting normal road rubber has a huge impact on the way the car drives. It was designed to wear the Cups and it shows when you fit anything other than the Cups.
That is a good point GP, I have run the CSL on Goodyear F1 asymetrics when not om cups and although most people rate them, I thought they were poor. Certainly worse than my std e46 m3 on contisports...

Hummmmm

Mr Fix It

473 posts

275 months

Saturday 9th April 2011
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I think tyre choice can make a big difference. When I ran a Z3M Coupe it was shod with Dunlops and it aquaplaned at the slightest amount of water. Quite a few heart in the mouth moments (PS not due to my driving as same issues when it was driven by my wife).

ruebdo

291 posts

173 months

Tuesday 19th April 2011
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i bought my CSL with PS2's on and after 1 week changed back to cups. Cups were made for the car, and if you are unsure you can drive it with them on, then go and buy an E46 M3 or RS4. Its a drivers car which is meant to be driven!!

BlackPrince

Original Poster:

1,271 posts

176 months

Thursday 21st April 2011
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ruebdo said:
i bought my CSL with PS2's on and after 1 week changed back to cups. Cups were made for the car, and if you are unsure you can drive it with them on, then go and buy an E46 M3 or RS4. Its a drivers car which is meant to be driven!!
Not that I'm unsure, rather that I can't be bothered to pussyfoot it in the rain anymore. I've done that everyday for the past 5 yrs on bikes, and was going to move to a Caterham CSR260 til I realized I'd have to be almost as careful in the wet and then I lost interest.

From what I gather tho, they are just fine in the rain, just not when its cats and dogs. An occasional bit of 'liveliness' I can handle tho and only adds t the fun biggrin

ruebdo

291 posts

173 months

Friday 22nd April 2011
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spot on, enjoy!!