modifying the CSL?why?
Discussion
I have a question for all you CSL owners. it seems most who buy a CSL rip the suspension and brakes out the day the get it in favor of intrax and stoptech. why? i know the CSL isn't exactly a racecar out of the box but it's a more than capable track day toy i would have thought. now i am a bit of a hypoctyte because when i got my M3 i upgraded everything but in hindsight i would do it differently in the future with my next car. i'd love a CSL in a few years when i can afford one and i think i'd like to keep it pretty stock, brake pads aside maybe. anyway, why do you guys all throw BMW's R&D out the window in favor of Moton/Intrax etc. fair nough if your car is being entered in the CSL Cup or whatever but for the guy who does 4 or 5 track days a year, why do you decide to upgrade everything when the car is an animal in standard form?
Intrax is not a good solution for the CSL (in particular the rear coilovers).
Stoptech is not a popular option for CSLs.
The brakes on the CSL can be improved, as can the suspension. These are production cars which are, ultimately, still designed/built to a compromise. Even if you consider the likes of the 911GT3, the suspension on older GT3s (just like the CSL), are upgraded to the likes of KW/Moton/etc. Ditto on the brakes, although the standard 6pot calipers (Mk2 6GT3 onwards) are more than adequate. Brake discs are still often upgraded (Alcon/Brembo/PF) as the standard Porsche discs are lousy.
The CSL, although a phenomenal car out of the box, can - just like the benchmark GT3 - be improved upon. And many enthusiasts simply want the best available, cash permitting.
Stoptech is not a popular option for CSLs.
The brakes on the CSL can be improved, as can the suspension. These are production cars which are, ultimately, still designed/built to a compromise. Even if you consider the likes of the 911GT3, the suspension on older GT3s (just like the CSL), are upgraded to the likes of KW/Moton/etc. Ditto on the brakes, although the standard 6pot calipers (Mk2 6GT3 onwards) are more than adequate. Brake discs are still often upgraded (Alcon/Brembo/PF) as the standard Porsche discs are lousy.
The CSL, although a phenomenal car out of the box, can - just like the benchmark GT3 - be improved upon. And many enthusiasts simply want the best available, cash permitting.
most dont plan to do it and as you say try to keep the car OEM as it is such a good OEM car
BUT as you get the trackdays under the belt you do come up against the limitations of the car bought about by the compromise between road and track use therefore the natural thing to do, especially if your CSL is used on track rather than day to day drive, is to try a few things out to see if the car and ons driving works better
for two years mine was stock as it was a daily drive but now i have upgraded adjustable suspension which makes the car more tracl focused alowing faster driving and less roll which also reduces tyre wear
less bothered about BHP GAINS AS THEY ARE SO SMALL!
BUT as you get the trackdays under the belt you do come up against the limitations of the car bought about by the compromise between road and track use therefore the natural thing to do, especially if your CSL is used on track rather than day to day drive, is to try a few things out to see if the car and ons driving works better
for two years mine was stock as it was a daily drive but now i have upgraded adjustable suspension which makes the car more tracl focused alowing faster driving and less roll which also reduces tyre wear
less bothered about BHP GAINS AS THEY ARE SO SMALL!
wah wah wah wah wah
thorney says intrax not a good option, as he doesn't sell intrax
wah wah wah.
intrax fine, anyway if you track a car regularly you should cage it, its common sense, gives more structual rigidity and also saves your life if you get it wrong and it ends up like this
(driver in the above car I understand was fine).
as for brakes, horses for courses. APs look nicer than stock. nice 6 pot callipers at the front, 4 pots at the rear. :P
my car is very unstock now, it was stock for 2 years, similar to shim in fact.
reason mine ended up being modded is that I had had it for 2 years, I wanted something different, 997 GT3RS was too much to tie up in a car, BMW cancelled the E92 CSL, so I decided to splash out and make my car exactly as I wanted it.
so its now rose jointed underneath, has a bunch of different bits, underneath too, and it drives like a dream.
when I find something else which can be a track car for me, I'll put the CSL back to stock, and it'll become a pristine road car again, but for now its an amazing track car for me
thorney says intrax not a good option, as he doesn't sell intrax
wah wah wah.
intrax fine, anyway if you track a car regularly you should cage it, its common sense, gives more structual rigidity and also saves your life if you get it wrong and it ends up like this
(driver in the above car I understand was fine).
as for brakes, horses for courses. APs look nicer than stock. nice 6 pot callipers at the front, 4 pots at the rear. :P
my car is very unstock now, it was stock for 2 years, similar to shim in fact.
reason mine ended up being modded is that I had had it for 2 years, I wanted something different, 997 GT3RS was too much to tie up in a car, BMW cancelled the E92 CSL, so I decided to splash out and make my car exactly as I wanted it.
so its now rose jointed underneath, has a bunch of different bits, underneath too, and it drives like a dream.
when I find something else which can be a track car for me, I'll put the CSL back to stock, and it'll become a pristine road car again, but for now its an amazing track car for me
Ducade said:
I think there's a distinct difference between bolting on a couple of off the shelf, and reversible components that do not compromise the basic safety of the car vs welding your car to accept components that it was not originally designed to accept.
welding my car?So ohlin, bilstein, intrax, h&r, and ast all offer suspension kits for the M3 which have rear coilovers.
KW's standard road suspension for the M3 don't have rear coilovers.
a KW dealer says rear coilovers are wrong on an m3 and you should buy KW V3s instead
Is this not a tiny weeniest bit coincidental?
Also KW Competition kit is rear coilovers anyway.
Edited by cpufreak on Tuesday 23 June 08:18
Once you start going to a track, you soon find out just how 'not' good the M3 or CSL are in factory trim.. great on the road, but not at all good on track, they destroy tyres and brakes, and corner on the door handles..
+1 on reversible mods.. it can all come off and be reset.. and resold.. or sold on as is.. to someone who would only take the same journey to a track and start all over again..
Plenty of guys run coilover rears, this will put a lot more load through the top mounting position as it wasn't designed with this in mind.. I run KWV3..and keep up with some of the Intrax guys..
KW competition dampers are about 5 grand a set.. and a step too far for trackday duty.. the 2 way are easy enough to set up for me..!
+1 on reversible mods.. it can all come off and be reset.. and resold.. or sold on as is.. to someone who would only take the same journey to a track and start all over again..
Plenty of guys run coilover rears, this will put a lot more load through the top mounting position as it wasn't designed with this in mind.. I run KWV3..and keep up with some of the Intrax guys..
KW competition dampers are about 5 grand a set.. and a step too far for trackday duty.. the 2 way are easy enough to set up for me..!
Edited by RatBoy M3CS on Tuesday 30th June 07:33
RatBoy M3CS said:
Plenty of guys run coilover rears, this will put a lot more load through the top mounting position as it wasnt designed with this in mind.. I run KWV3..and keep up with some of the Intrax guys..
KW competition dampers are about 5 grand a set.. and a step too far for trackday duty.. the 2 way are nought to set up for me..!
Come to Germany, July 12th, RMA track day 13:30->19:00 @ the ring.KW competition dampers are about 5 grand a set.. and a step too far for trackday duty.. the 2 way are nought to set up for me..!
plenty of space left.
I've driven CSLs with Standard, KWv3, KW competition 3 way, AST 3 way and my intrax 4 ways.
there is a big difference between the KWv3 and the Intrax i2K and the more competition orientated set ups.
the mechanical grip of mine these days still surprises me.
cpufreak said:
I've driven CSLs with Standard, KWv3, KW competition 3 way, AST 3 way and my intrax 4 ways.
there is a big difference between the KWv3 and the Intrax i2K and the more competition orientated set ups.
the mechanical grip of mine these days still surprises me.
Similarly i would very much like to try the KW competition or Intrax 4 way..! i stepped back from this idea on a cost and ease of setting up basis..there is a big difference between the KWv3 and the Intrax i2K and the more competition orientated set ups.
the mechanical grip of mine these days still surprises me.
Typically what times do you run round Silverstone..?
I went to Slippystone last night to meet and get some times from the CSL boys there.. but it rained.. and Shimmy had a front wheel bearing fail, so my plan fell over ! ..
Edited by RatBoy M3CS on Tuesday 30th June 14:41
Shim.. i would mate but i'm already paid and displayed for 14th @ Silverstone..!
I will do Donny this summer its a cracking track.. altho' you would destroy me round there.. 1st time out and all..
You got back OK.. wheel brg fixed ..?
I checked mine yesterday.. and the fronts seem to be free running, not notchy but its difficult to tell if its not under load at the time.
Mail me your contact number, I can keep track of where you boys are running at..
I will do Donny this summer its a cracking track.. altho' you would destroy me round there.. 1st time out and all..
You got back OK.. wheel brg fixed ..?
I checked mine yesterday.. and the fronts seem to be free running, not notchy but its difficult to tell if its not under load at the time.
Mail me your contact number, I can keep track of where you boys are running at..
I am going to book 14 and 28 August at Donny as well being as the track will supposedly change after this year!!!!!!!!
Just join us over at www.openpitlane.co.uk and see what is happening on the td scene (although it mainly ends up to do with food, beer and lapdancing!
Just join us over at www.openpitlane.co.uk and see what is happening on the td scene (although it mainly ends up to do with food, beer and lapdancing!
RatBoy M3CS said:
Typically what times do you run round Silverstone..?
I went to Slippystone last night to meet and get some times from the CSL boys there.. but it rained.. and Shimmy had a front wheel bearing fail, so my plan fell over ! ..
Not driven silverstone.I went to Slippystone last night to meet and get some times from the CSL boys there.. but it rained.. and Shimmy had a front wheel bearing fail, so my plan fell over ! ..
only uk track I've done in the csl is brands, in the wet in december 2006.
Tarting her up ready for a sale to be honest. Im looking to sell between Nov and Feb but it needed a lick of paint after the wrap anyways.
The car is going to be around 2 more weeks getting painted then a couple of days getting the Rays fianlly sorted and a bit of TLC after the Hungaroring. Cant wait!
The car is going to be around 2 more weeks getting painted then a couple of days getting the Rays fianlly sorted and a bit of TLC after the Hungaroring. Cant wait!
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